[SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK (Heard) / AZ Propagation - GREYLINE DATA TAKING - Any Takers

Tue Apr 5 16:54:38 EDT 2016

Jerry,

You're asking an interesting question, but my memory is fading! Hi Hi.  

While I have not documented the greyline signal strength vs time per se, I
suspect it might depend upon the Frequency, and the Near-side or Far-Side
type propagation. 

I think we all have an excellent opportunity NOW to observe signals vs time,
for the HEARD PM far-side Greyline .. and on 160m, 40m, 30m, 20m, and maybe
17m, in the next few nights.  

OBJECTIVE: How does the far-side HEARD signal strength change relative to
sunset/sunrise Local time,  as a function of frequency, time, LP/SP. Perhaps
bearing change might also be interesting, especially if much different than
the Greyline, and Geometrical Angle. 

For HEARD/TUCSON sunrise/sunset local data. 

UTC APRIL 6
	SUNRISE HEARD  6:39AM Local
	SUNSET  TUCSON 6:44pm Local 

Note: dT = [Tsunset(Tus) - Tsunrise(Hrd)] = 5 min. See the Greyline Map at
01:44Z for April 6th UTC. Its PERFECT!!  

THIS IS ALMOST A GREYLINE DATA TAKER'S DREAM, for FAR-SIDE Data. And the
target signal is transmitting almost all the time on most the bands. Its
like testing a far-side  Greyline multiband beacon signal. 

For UTC 
4/7   dT = 5 Min
4/8   dT = 4 min
4/9   dT = 3 min
4/10  dT = 2 min

For 40m - 17m, I can take signal data tonight, and a few other nights...as a
function of time, LP, SP and bearing. Thinking of  starting maybe an hour or
more prior to sunset, and 5 hours after sunset, taking data at 1/2 Hour
intervals.  I have 3 ele on 40m and 30m, so I can note bearing on these
bands as well. 

I do not have 80m or 160m capability.. so if someone else would like to
document this HEARD signal data vs time on these bands,  that would be
great. 

What an excellent opportunity for us to observe the far-side greyline
signals vs time and frequency,  when the far-side and near-side local
greyline UTC times are almost identical. 

We can report on this at the next SADXA meeting. 

Glad you asked Jerry!!

73s, Bill W7EXG

-----Original Message-----
From: SADXA [mailto:sadxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry Wothe
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 5:36 PM
To: Southern AZ DX Association E-Mail Reflector
Subject: Re: [SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK (Heard) /
AZ Propagation

This for for you folks that have watched the grayline and listened to 
the DX stations. What has been your experience as to when the real peak 
in signal strength occurs? In my case I have listened to a lot of 160 
grayline and just about always about 10min before the actual SR is when 
I usually see the peak. Cant say the other bands because I have not done 
much there to make the observation.

W6XI

On 4/4/2016 5:06 PM, k7bhm at cox.net wrote:
> Bill and all..
>
> An excellent analysis of "Gray-Line" and how it effects propagation
> between Arizona and Heard.........Tucson and Phoenix Gray-line being only
> a few minutes apart...
>
> 63 years ago while learning how to use a compass in Boy Scouts, we
> were taught that in Arizona, Magnetic North was always 13 degrees
> away (East) from True North. We had to make that adjustment when
> locating different objects in the field.
>
> Who would'a thunk the concept was alive and well today with our radios!!!!
>
> Bob - K7BHM
>
>
> ---- "W7EXG (Bill)" <W7EXG at q.com> wrote:
>> The described Greyline bearing vs true Bearing difference of 13 deg would
>> not seem to have much difference on a directional antenna's gain.
>>
>> I simulated 13 deg 20m gain loss for a 3 ele SteppIR to be about 0.7dB.
The
>> same analysis for my 20m DB42 (5 ele on 42 ft boom) yielded a 1.2dB
>> difference.
>>
>> Although this does not seem like much, but when signals are at or near
the
>> noise level, a 1.2dB signal improvement is helpful.
>>
>> Frequency propagation considerations are uniquely different along the
>> Greyline, and uniquely dependant upon the near-side or far-side targets.
>>
>> For near-side, both stations are experiencing the Light to Dark (Dark to
>> Light) transition together, while for far-side, one station is
progressing
>> from dark to light, while the other station is experiencing light to
dark,
>> or visa versa. This last case, is the case for HEARD.
>>
>> There is no other propagation region on Earth, where over a distance of
>> about 1200 miles, the Light side shows a strong D layer, and High MUF
with
>> F2 layer, while the Dark side shows weak, or no D layer, [with F Layer
low
>> band DX propagation] and low MUF. I find the MUF gradient interesting
across
>> the Greyline.
>>
>> For near-side propagation along the Greyline, both stations start low
>> frequency and work toward high frequency, or visa versa, dependent upon
dark
>> to light, or light to dark transition respectively.
>>
>> For far-side propagation along the greyline, one station is transitioning
>> from low to high MUF, and the other is transitioning from high to low
MUF.
>> This is a complicated process to accurately predict/model, but may be
>> possible.
>>
>> Somewhere in the middle of the near-side/far-side greyline, the
propagation
>> works..
>>
>> I was amazed on 4/2/16 0300Z to 0400Z UTC, VK0EK [11,000 miles away] was
>> being heard/worked on 40m, 30m, 20m, and 17m almost at the same time.
Don't
>> hear this too often. No place line the Greyline Experience.
>>
>> Greyline propagation is unique, and in some cases it is not clear what
>> frequency to utilize, especially for the near-side/far-side propagation.
>>
>> 73s, Bill W7EXG
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SADXA [mailto:sadxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jerry
Wothe
>> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2016 4:01 PM
>> To: Southern AZ DX Association E-Mail Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [SADXA] Optimum GreyLine-Termination Angle for VK0EK (Heard)
/
>> AZ Propagation
>>
>> You have to consider what frequency you are working with also. The dark
>> side is better for the low bands and the sunny side for the higher
>> frequencies. Who is in the dark and who is in the light and when. If you
>> are worrying about where to set your antenna, _+_ 10 degrees, very few
>> antennas are that sharp that you can notice it. Plus depending on
>> frequency the signal my not be best right on the great circle bearing.
>> Lots of antenna rotating goes on right at SR/SS to find out just where
>> is the signal coming from.
>>
>> W6XI
>>
>> On 4/3/2016 3:06 PM, W7EXG (Bill) wrote:
>>> By now, most of us have recognized the two opportunities per day, for
>>> propagation between AZ and VK0EK, due to the Greyline.
>>>
>>> QRZ bearing data shows 186 deg Short Path (SP) (6 deg Long Path (LP))
>>>
>>> The question becomes: Is this geometrical bearing, the correct bearing
>> when
>>> Greyline propagation is being considered? I submit the correct answer
is..
>>> Not Always.
>>>
>>> For April 4th, 0140Z UTC, the greyline passing through Tucson, also
passes
>>> slightly West of Heard Island. The Greyline Terminator line is along the
7
>>> deg / 187 deg line. It is almost the perfect storm, since the Greyline
>>> propagation path is close to the required 186 deg SP bearing. As most of
>> us
>>> know, the evening propagation for VK0EK has recently been exceptional.
>>>
>>> (HEARD considering staying put!)
>>>
>>> However, for April 4th, 1300Z UTC, the greyline passing thought Tucson,
>>> passes significantly more West of Heard Island. In this case, the
Greyline
>>> Terminator line is along the 353 deg and 173 deg line.
>>>
>>> This suggests the morning propagation may be best at a SP bearing of 173
>>> degrees, not 186 degrees (a 13 deg bearing difference)
>>>
>>> Because of the further west Greyline for HEARD, and an indirect
>> propagation
>>> path, this suggests the AM propagation between AZ and HEARD may
currently
>>> not be as good as in the PM.
>>>
>>> This analysis is based on the greyline prediction websites.. some of
>> which,
>>> may not yield identical results. The link below is easy to use, and will
>>> verify my analysis above. It agreed with several others greyline
>> predictors
>>> I tried.
>>>
>>> https://academo.org/demos/day-night-terminator/
>>>
>>> 73s, and good luck with HEARD!
>>>
>>> Bill W7EXG
>>>
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