[RVRC] Warren Site

Sat Aug 31 16:43:50 EDT 2019

Ken,

This antenna system is THEIR SYSTEM. Other VHF systems will be sharing (but
no ther amateur 2 meters).
The tower operator owns the antennas, feedlines and combiner/multicoupler.
They will be maintaining all of it. 

NO ANNUAL MAINTENANCE FEES as this is a facility used by NJ State. If the
antenna system fails it will fail for 
All the state users as well and therefore require the tower operator to make
necessary repairs.

Lightning protection is about the most complete available. Of Course, we
will use our own 'cabinet-entry' surge protectors as that
Makes sense.

This tower is a commercial facility shared by state agencies. The
reliability has been engineered into the site.

If we were to be given free access to install our own antenna and feedlines,
our cost would most likely be in excess of $10K counting all the
Hardware, components and professional riggers costs. Then we would be on our
own for maintenance as well.  We have no liability for antenna system
Maintenance (and it will be maintained for the state and other users of the
multiplexed antennas).

As far as power......I am not certain of any fees but I'm certain we would
have the same costs at any other locations.
I believe Paul indicated there is internet access (one way or another) from
this location. 

Insofar as experimenting with other systems like digital, we would need to
examine that on an on-going basis. We aren't there yet.
But if it was determined to convert our 2 meter system to digital, we would
have the opportunity to remove our analog equipment and
Replace it with commercial level 2 meter digital equipment. This site has
limited space for UHF systems and that space is filled.
I will assume that any digital direction we move on will be in the 70 cm or
higher bands and we would need to work on that separately.

In today's world antenna space is difficult and becoming moreso with
restrictions everywhere. Our 2 meter system has been the backbone of
Our activities and I believe this is the best way to go as locations will
become even more difficult to get in time.

I am not convinced that access on Green Brook ridge is not achievable but
we'll need to work on that as we go for UHF.

The location, antenna height, freedom from antenna installation
costs/maintenance and coverage make this an excellent choice. We'd be
spending several
Thousands if we had to purchase all the antenna hardware and pay a rigger to
install it all, then we'd be totally responsible for all maintenance.

73
Marv
K2vhw

-----Original Message-----
From: rvrc-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:rvrc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On
Behalf Of Lund Datacom
Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2019 4:02 PM
To: Paul Nannery
Cc: RVRC mailpost
Subject: Re: [RVRC] Warren Site

Ok, this sounds good. But we cannot afford more than a few return 
repairs to the coax- what kind of warrantee are they putting into 
ensuring no water gets into the connectors, or lightning hitting the 
tower frying the coax. What annual maintnance fees will there be and 
what are we paying for electric and internet access. We still have the 
440 to eventually worry about and we are putting more than 1/2 our 
budget into this. It also completely blocks us from future experimental 
technologies until big carriers take them up- like when we wanted to 
start playing with digital modes. And this VHF combiner and multicoupler 
expansion channels thingy- I assume every few years needs tuning and 
lines need to be swept etc what's that going to cost and if the antenna 
we're sharing fails do we have to split the cost of it?

-- 
KC2OOP- RVRC Treasurer
Lund, Kenneth R.
(908)581-4947
krlund at centurylink.net

Paul Nannery wrote:

>Members,
>to answer some questions raised, the 25W limit is set by out current
>equipment we can run up to 100W but No amp so we would need a new repeater
>for that. our current will do 50 W the total system gain is 2.5 DB on both
>TX and RX. site access will be limited to 2 persons however they can bring
>help with them, and we can work on any of our equipment in out cabinet.
>attached are estimated plots as well i just received word the state has
>approved this. also this is long term. it is not dependent on one persons
>as we will have an agreement in place. see below from the state.
>
> I discussed RVRC's potential use of the Warren tower site with the State.
>They would be agreeable with certain conditions, most of which you and I
>already discussed, and with which you indicated concurrance previously.
The
>only new issue they brought up is cut and pasted below; I trust you will
>have no objection to their requirements?
>
>  
>
>>Chuck will want to formalize with a no-charge agreement that makes the
>>club aware of their maintenance obligations, site and tower access
>>restrictions, and our security procedures.
>>    
>>
>
>The access/security procedures will likely require that only one or two
>people are authorized for access.  The State is moving to an all-electronic
>access system including a motorized gate across the access road to get into
>the fenced compound.  Authorized persons will each be given an access card
>to get into the compound; the card may not be used by anyone other than who
>it is assigned to.  They may require notification prior to each access,
>likely limited to weekday working hours as the new system notifies them
>whenever someone swipes a card so they can monitor activity from Trenton
via
>the cameras at the site.
>
>Just so we're clear, there will be no access to the tower (i.e.
>climbing/installing equipment on the tower) by anyone other than the
State's
>authorized contractor, either initially or at any time in the future, since
>you will be on the master antenna systems.
>
>If you would like to move ahead, I'll work up a quote, and then have the
>State draft the agreement for the club to sign.  Who would be the person
>authorized to sign on behalf of the club?
>
>to not miss this we need to quickly approve and move on this. below are the
>emails about cost. the costs we gave at the meeting were high just be be
>cretin we would not have a cost over run.
>
>1.  Pricing below for the VHF combiner and multicoupler expansion channels
>(I get a 30% discount):  $1708.70 + tax + shipping.  Figure $2000 total.
>We'll do the integration and tuning as a favor to the club.
>
>2.  Horizontal cabling.  T&M to run cables from the combiner/multicoupler
>building out to your cabinet which will end up being about 100' or so away.
>This has to be done by the State's approved contractor.  Assuming we use
>7/8" cable, figure about 120' of cable for each run (one for Tx, one for
>Rx), and a couple of hours to install with hangers, ground kits, etc., I
>would guesstimate around $2000-2500.
>
>3.  Outdoor equipment cabinet.  The existing cabinets that are there are
>pretty rusty, I don't think you would want to use what remains.  Ideally it
>should be a Motorola 6' outdoor cabinet as the area under the ice bridge is
>set up to mount that type of cabinet, but it can probably be adapted to
>whatever you have using angle steel/aluminum. About 3000.00
>
>4.  Repeater.  Must be first-class, modern, commercial equipment (Motorola,
>Tait, Kenwood, Harris, etc.).  No hammy stuff, no mobile radios, etc..  You
>will not need, and you cannot add, any additional filtering, preamps, etc.
>as it can adversely affect other channels on the system.  You will be
>sharing antenna systems with state and federal agencies with three-letter
>acronyms; any interference to them will surely end your stay, so it's in
the
>club's best interest to "do it once, do it right".
>
>5.  Coordination.  I will require that you get your coordination modified
>and approved before we proceed.  This is not unique to you - it is my
>standard requirement whenever I let ham repeaters on sites that we own or
>manage in order to avoid conflict of interest since I am involved in
>frequency coordination (ARCC).  For the sake of calculating ERP, your net
>antenna system gain (including the 120' of horizontal cabling loss,
>combiner, feedline loss, antenna gain, etc.) will be 2.5 dBd.
>
>6.  Electrical.  We can do the work for you at no cost as a favor to the
>club.  You will be on the State's main (275 kW) diesel generator for backup
>power.  If your repeater has provisions for a backup battery, be sure to
use
>a battery that will work/survive at the temperature extremes.  The State
>will want to know your electric consumption, so I would strongly recommend
a
>switching power supply and keeping your power output reasonable (also goes
>along with coordination).  The transmit antenna is a 4-bay dipole array at
>880' AMSL (receive antenna at 940' AMSL) fed with 1-5/8" line - you're not
>going to need much power...
>
>I feel we should move on this and move quickly.
>
>Thank you KC2VRJ
>  
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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