Ive also heard reference to an "813" - a good drink of rye whiskey. Darn! I never heard that one before but I do like a good rye. Its not easy to find in the US but when I worked in Canada they had some great rye. Here the common one is Old Overholt. Maybe its time to pull the sides off the TCK to check out the 813's??? (required BoatAnchor content) EdZ