[R-390] Manassas BPL and I Vote!
Bob Camp
ham at cq.nu
Sat Jul 10 23:55:32 EDT 2004
Hi
I totally agree that you are far better off with a local approach. The
ARRL has tried the "top end" approach and at this point has very little
to show for it. As far as I can tell there are no other major
organizations involved in opposing this mess.
I realize that radio manufacturing isn't the big deal it was back in
the days of the R390 but it can it be so dead that they simply do not
care about the market going away all together?
My observation also is that this looks a lot like a "fix is in" type
deal. I'm not sure what level he real involvement is at though. Judging
by the comments that get made who ever has done the selling did it
clear up to the top.
We do have an issue versus most of the rest of the world when you look
at broad band access. Places like Korea have us beat all to hell. We do
have a problem that could be fixed. I just don't like this solution. It
throws out the entire HF spectrum.
At least locally the cable modem outfits are outselling the phone line
guys about 4:1. The satellite based broadband providers don't even show
up on the charts. The very odd thing is that even out here you can in
general only get one option at a given location. Either you are in an
area that is covered by DSL and not cable or it's covered by cable but
not DSL. Competition by not competing I guess.
If BPL goes the same way it will only go into areas that are not
already served. To your point the only areas left are those that cable
does not get to. If all of rural America gets BPL that is a lot of
miles and miles of wire running BPL.
Let's see, the bigger the antenna gets with a constant level of current
in the entire wire the power goes to where .... Even if you don't have
BPL on your street it's going to get to you one way or the other.
The R390 is a great radio. It has a lot of sensitivity. It's biggest
claim to fame is that you can dig out signals nobody else can get to.
That's all based on what you had to deal with in days gone by. BPL is
more like having another station on top of the one you are going for.
No matter how good the radio is you are not going to tune it in.
I probably should go find a suitable anesthetic .....
Take Care!
Bob Camp
KB8TQ
On Jul 10, 2004, at 11:18 PM, Joe Grossbauer wrote:
> It's a good start to go to any public hearings that are held in your
> area
> but this is coming from the fcc. Their policy is to encourage
> development
> of this kind of broadband access. It is being sold by saying that it
> will
> open up under served rural areas, which I doubt will happen. I think
> things
> are past the point of no return but I plan on taking the action that I
> can
> as follows:
>
> 1. I have set up a meeting with a US congressman from Chicago that I
> know
> and will do the same with my local congressman here where I live
> (Indiana).
>
> We can all contact our congressman's office and set up a meeting (be
> persistent, groups are better). Our local democratic congressman is NOT
> supportive of Bush as it relates to Power companies but is not
> familiar with
> BPL. I plan on opening his eyes.
>
> 2. I sit on several committees with our local town council, I have
> and will
> make my position know and bring out the issues.
>
> 3. This is really coming from the Bush administration through the fcc.
> Those of you/us that are republicans need to contact our local
> republican
> headquarters and voice our concerns and rights. The local politicians
> are
> more sensitive to our voices than those in distant places.
>
> 4. VOTE, if this issue is important enough to you "through the bums
> out!"
> If you are in a swing state call your local public radio station (NPR
> has
> broadcasted several reports on this) and raise this issue. If any of
> you
> are broadcast engineers, talk (shout) to your news people.
>
> If anyone has any other ideas please share.
>
> 73,
>
> Joe WA9MSD
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
> On Behalf Of Bob Camp
> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:38 PM
> To: rbethman at comcast.net; R-390 HF Receiver List
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Manassas BPL
>
> Hi,
>
> But soon we will *all* get to live with it.
>
> Guys - if they hold hearings in your area on this stuff go and complain
> about it. It's going to mess you up....
>
> Take Care!
>
> Bob Camp
> KB8TQ
>
>
> On Jul 10, 2004, at 10:34 PM, Rbethman wrote:
>
>> Yeah! BUT I'm the one living with it!
>>
>> Bob - N0DGN
>>
>> Bob Camp wrote:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> An awful long time ago I had some exposure to "carrier current
>>> broadcasting". This is a wonderful idea where you transmit AM
>>> directly into a building's power system in order to provide a
>>> listening experience for all the occupants.
>>>
>>> The first thing you find out is that power lines were not designed as
>>> RF transmission lines, even at AM radio frequencies. The impedance
>>> between the conductors is well below an ohm at RF. You need to feed a
>>> lot more into the lines than you might think to get anything useful
>>> to happen.
>>>
>>> The next amazing thing was that after you got all that power in there
>>> it would pop up all over the place. We would get hot spots as much as
>>> a couple of blocks away. This happened at power levels that just
>>> barely covered the building that was our target. Multiple feeds to
>>> the building made things even more exciting. Nulls and peaks all over
>>> the place.
>>>
>>> If it's that tough to control at 500 KC then it's going to be a whole
>>> lot harder to control at 30 MHz. The primary and secondary power
>>> distribution systems were never intended to be part of an RF system
>>> in the first place. Anybody who has ever had a RFI complaint into
>>> them can tell you just how good they generally are at RF.
>>>
>>> The cable company runs a system that is designed from the ground up
>>> to be RF tight. Finding their carriers floating around in free air is
>>> awfully easy. It doesn't even take a R390, you can do it on a rice
>>> box. Even with that kind of system they have an awful time tracking
>>> down problems as well. The power company won't be any better.
>>>
>>> The one hope is that the combination of complaints and competition
>>> will make this a system that nobody ever makes any money off of. If
>>> so it will die out. Remember the woodpecker back in the 1980's - it
>>> died eventually. If this thing interferes with what you want to do on
>>> HF COMPLAIN ABOUT IT TO THE FCC. The guy that comes around every
>>> couple of years looking to get re-elected to the House of
>>> Representatives might also be a good one to talk to. This is
>>> especially true if elections in your area tend to be closely
>>> contested.
>>>
>>> Boy .. this has me going even harder than the ballast tubes ...
>>>
>>> Take Care!
>>>
>>> Bob Camp
>>> KB8TQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jul 10, 2004, at 9:57 PM, JamesMiller wrote:
>>>
>>>> As I understand BPL (which isnt much) it comes right to the wall
>>>> outlet.
>>>> That's the sell feature, your internet comes in on the same plug as
>>>> power.
>>>> So it may be in your house. I wonder if a heavy duty RF filter
>>>> across the power main coming into the house wouild help?
>>>>
>>>> Yje ARRL is trying to fight it and needs support. www.arrl.org
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Rbethman" <rbethman at comcast.net>
>>>> To: <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 8:54 PM
>>>> Subject: [R-390] Manassas BPL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Well, I've used the R-390A and <groan> a TS-930SAT to narrow it
>>>>> down.
>>>>>
>>>>> The bursts show s-5 on the Kenwood at 1.616Kc. At 29.6Mc it
>>>>> doesn't move the needle so much as it IS a constant audio pop.
>>>>>
>>>>> The results are the same on the R-390A. I just used the Kenwood to
>>>>> provide S Units for description.
>>>>>
>>>>> As I have said before - I live in the part of the city that the
>>>>> power is UNDERGROUND.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've put up to 5 rf toroidal chokes on both radios power cords with
>>>>> NO effect at all. It is definitely radiated!
>>>>>
>>>>> Now where is riley Hollingsworth's email address. I know I've seen
>>>>
>>>> it......
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob - N0DGN
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> < Bob Bethman - N0DGN
>>>>> +-------------------------------
>>>>> +----------------------------------+
>>>>> | N0DGN AMRadio Manassas, VA | REAL Tube Radio and AM
>>>>> |
>>>>> +-------------------------------
>>>>> +----------------------------------+
>>>>> | Manassas Radio - Home of Homemade Kielbasa & Pirogi
>>>>> |
>>>>> +-------------------------------
>>>>> +----------------------------------+
>>>>> | Bob Bethman \\\|/// " The absence of a danger
>>>>> |
>>>>> | rbethman(at)comcast.net \\ ~ ~ // signal does *NOT* mean
>>>>> |
>>>>> | (/ @ @ /) that everything is OK "
>>>>> |
>>>>> +-------------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------------------------
>>>>> ++
>>>>> | <http://home.comcast.net/~rbethman>
>>>>> |
>>>>> | 1 BC-610I w/BC-614I,1 T-213/GRC-26 w/BC614I 1 '51 Collins R-390A
>>>>> | |
>>>>> | 1 '67 EAC R-390A, Heathkit DX-60, Apache, Mohawk, SX-101, HT-32A
>>>>> | |
>>>>> +------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> +
>>>>> | Amateur Astronomer - Celestron Nexstar 8
>>>>> |
>>>>> | 12" f5 Dob coming soon! Being built
>>>>> |
>>>>> | Meade ETX-60 (Got it back!)
>>>>> |
>>>>> | 38 Deg 46.8' N - 77 Deg 28.5' W
>>>>> |
>>>>> +------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> +
>>>>> | Opinions expressed are that of my own and do not necessarily
>>>>> |
>>>>> | coincide with or represent those of ANYONE else
>>>>> |
>>>>> +------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> +
>>>>> ALL E-mail received and sent scanned by AVG & Norton Anti-Virus>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>
>> --
>> < Bob Bethman - N0DGN
>> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------+
>> | N0DGN AMRadio Manassas, VA | REAL Tube Radio and AM |
>> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------+
>> | Manassas Radio - Home of Homemade Kielbasa & Pirogi |
>> +-------------------------------+----------------------------------+
>> | Bob Bethman \\\|/// " The absence of a danger |
>> | rbethman(at)comcast.net \\ ~ ~ // signal does *NOT* mean |
>> | (/ @ @ /) that everything is OK " |
>> +-------------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------------------------+
>> | <http://home.comcast.net/~rbethman> |
>> | 1 BC-610I w/BC-614I,1 T-213/GRC-26 w/BC614I 1 '51 Collins R-390A |
>> | 1 '67 EAC R-390A, Heathkit DX-60, Apache, Mohawk, SX-101, HT-32A |
>> +------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> | Amateur Astronomer - Celestron Nexstar 8 |
>> | 12" f5 Dob coming soon! Being built |
>> | Meade ETX-60 (Got it back!) |
>> | 38 Deg 46.8' N - 77 Deg 28.5' W |
>> +------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> | Opinions expressed are that of my own and do not necessarily |
>> | coincide with or represent those of ANYONE else |
>> +------------------------------------------------------------------+
>> ALL E-mail received and sent scanned by AVG & Norton Anti-Virus>
>>
>>
>>
>
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