[R-1051] Military Surplus Sales Primer

Fri Aug 23 11:09:53 EDT 2002

Hello Group,

        This is good info on the surplus "Climate"....I just don't see the
mentality in destroying military receiving equipment.  So if the Chinese or
whoever can't get their hands on ex-military 2-30 Mhz receivers, then they
buy Icom R-75's or whatever else is readily available out there that will do
the same job....

Just because the 390 or 1051 was once used by the US military doesn't make
the use of that equipment by the Chinese (just an example) any additional
security risk for the US.

Now if we were talking ECM pods from under the wing of retired F-4's that
would be entirely different!  We would all support the destruction of those
type devices.  But where there is commercially available equipment out there
that does the same job (sometimes better) it don't make sense!

I know I am preaching to the choir!

Cecil....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Conrad" <jjc at oceanviewcom.com>
To: <r-1051 at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: [R-1051] Military Surplus Sales Primer

> At 12:47 PM 8/22/02 -0700, Geoff Fors wrote:
> >DRMO.  Sometime in the early 1990's the Defense Department decided it
wanted
> >out of the surplus business, and chose to privatize the process by
granting
> >an exclusive contract to an outside business , which would have the right
to
> >sell most classes of lucrative surplus material, including electronics
and
> >aerospace items. That first contractor was Levy Latham Global, of Tempe
> >Arizona.
>
> I too have been in the surplus business over a decade, the privatization
of
> the government surplus system did not take place till the late 90's not
the
> early.
>
> >  the same time, the DRMO's began to drastically downsize.
>
> I attended several of the "town" meetings that DRMS gave when they started
> the process. They were faced with a situation were they did not have the
> resources to adequately handle the current down sizing and continue the
> full blown surplus sales organization of the past. They were being down
> sized just like most of the other support agencies so they had to look for
> alterative. The Privatization was their solution (good or bad).
>
> >As bases began to close (and in my opinion, when LLG discovered there
wasn't
> >as much money in surplus as they thought,) LLG started centralizing
surplus
> >sales to just a few locations.
> >
> >Last year, LLG's contract expired and they were replaced by Government
> >Liquidation, another private firm which curiously has the same physical
and
> >website addresses.
>
> They were not replaced the new contractor (Government Liquidation) simply
> purchased Levy Latham.
>
> >At the present time, the sale of nearly all surplus material in the USA
is
> >controlled exclusively by Government Liquidation, whose website is
> >http://www.govliquidation.com  . Electronic material is primarily sold at
> >Huntsville AL,  Norfolk VA, San Diego CA, and one or two other bases.  As
a
> >result of 9/11, getting in to view and remove surplus sale material is a
> >major headache (at least at western bases.)
>
> To some and depending on the location. Things are pretty much business as
> usual in the east.
>
> >On the specific subject of receiver demil, i.e. destruction - - sometime
> >around 1993 the administration in its wisdom decided that it was in the
> >interest of national defense if virtually all 5820- prefixed (Federal
Stock
> >Number for radio gear) surplus was demilled beyond reclamation.  This
> >specifically included any military AN/ or R- series equipment, such as
> >R-390A's and R-1051's, and anything like PRC-25's, PRC-77's, etc.
>
> This demil contained far more classes then just 5820 and was reviewed by
> multiple classes but included several pages of acronyms (i.e. kystron,
IFF,
> night vision, esm .. etc etc). If one of those acronyms showed up in the
> nomenclature then they almost always demil'd it.
>
> >Various DRMO regions had (and still have) demil facilities where this
> >destruction
> >takes place.  As surplus follows the pipeline from original user to
public
> >sale, it passes through a number of "screening" processes at the DRMO
level,
> >and if it falls into a certain demil category, it is destroyed before
> >heading farther down the "food chain."
>
> It is also recovered for precious metals just like many of our private
> surplus operations.
>
> >There are some inconsistencies in the process such that occasionally a
piece
> >of useful military radio gear will make it to public sale, without demil,
> >but generally, none do.  "Civilian" receivers such as ITT Mackay, Drake
and
> >Cubic equipment do seem to arrive at public sale, provided they do not
have
> >an AN/ military nameplate,
> >
> >It is rumored that the post-1993 demil order resulted from a CIA report
> >which showed that R-390A's and R-1051's were showing up in use in Cuba,
Iran
> >and Iraq, and those were traced back to a certain northern surplus dealer
> >who was a frequent shopper at DRMO.
>
> Other places as well such as mainland China, some purchased right from
DRMO
> by scrap companies run by foreign nationals.
>
> >A few years ago, a couple of enthusiasts were able to convince the DRMO
that
> >the R-390A and other Collins vacuum tube radios were beyond practical
> >military use and should not be subject to demil, however this seems to
have
> >been locking the stable door after the horse ha
>
> I have had many long conversations with DRMS HQ about the demil issue and
> to my knowledge they have never changed the process since it was
> implemented in the mid-90's. No system is perfect and things can be
> miss-described.
>
> >d escaped, as I haven't seen any R-390A's in the "pipeline" in several
> >years.  I was told the huge lot of
> >R-390A's at the St. Julien's Creek Depot a few years ago were spared the
> >demil treatment because their nameplates were missing and a clerk
described
> >them as frequency meters, prefixed 6625, which is not subject to demil.
>
> I was the person that purchased that lot at St J's. They were not
> miss-described they were listed as R-390 Radio Receivers. They were stored
> outside and the condition on many was poor but there was enough there to
> get a bunch running. The only thing universally missing was the meters
> because of the tritium dial. I bid them for a friend of Tony Synder's who
> promptly took all of them (over 100 as I recall) and then never paid me my
> fee. A Person named Pete up in PA that runs a Auto Salvage business (Tony
> knows his last name I don't recall).
>
> >If you know the federal stock number of a military radio you are
interested
> >in, it is possible to search Government Liquidation and DRMO to see if
there
> >are any in the pipeline.  If you find any, you will see that they
disappear
> >before getting close to private sale.
>
> That's not true, Government Liquidation recently sold a large quantity of
> reasonably modern (late 80's early 90's technology) Harris unit's (RF-350
> series) earlier this year.
>
> >Therefore, to answer some questions - - yes, there are R-1051's still
being
> >surplused, but they get demilled before ever making it to sale.  That's
why
> >you don't see the surplus market filled with newer radio gear, even
though
> >it's being retired from military service every day.  Some gear still
makes
>
> Another consideration is the age of the equipment. I was in the US Navy in
> the 80's and early 90's and the older generation equipment was being
phased
> out. I never saw an R-390 in any of the radio rooms I was in except one
> Aircraft Carrier and by the early 90's the R-1051's were replaced with
> Harris RF-350/590 gear. Their just isn't that much left of the older stuff
> to surplus.
>
> >it to the market, because it escaped the federal system before demil,
> >usually by clerical error or by being transferred to an indian
reservation,
> >Civil Air Patrol, or any number of agencies or nonprofits which can
"screen"
> >certain surplus prior to the demil phase.
>
> That happens with much frequency, many pieces find their way into the
> surplus market from these sources.
>
> >In some cases, it is possible to buy R-1051 carcasses after demil and
make
> >one good one out of several, but
> >you would need to buy many thousand pounds of scrap metal to do so, and
> >most of us don't have garage space or a semi-trailer truck to do it !
>
> They dropped 20 ton aircraft carrier anchors on most of the radio stuff
> they demil'd at St J's. Their was little left to rebuild with.
>
> >This is just another example of government waste which cries out for
reform.
> >You might try writing your congressman, as many of us have done.
>
> They are simply not interested in it due to the political ramifications if
> a few of the pieces shows up in the wrongs hands and then many would have
> to explain how that happened. Right now the name of the game is National
> Security. If they had any real interested in preventing waste the
> Transportation Security Agency (TSA) would not exist or be under tighter
reins.
>
> I would love to see some of the exotic comm gear being surplused again but
> I think those are days of the past. The sources are drying up, the climate
> has changed and with down sizing their simply isn't as much.
>
> ..Jim
>
>
> <:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:><:>
>        Jim Conrad - jjc at oceanviewcom.com or jimc1790 at aol.com (backup)
>               757-560-5970 Office/Voicemail/Pager - 757-587-8251 Fax
>                   CAGE 0UD60 - http://www.oceanviewcom.com/
>
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