[PVRCNC] New 5 Meg algorithm?
Gary Ferdinand W2CS
[email protected]
Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:50:43 -0400
Brian...dunno why you restricted the posting of this only to PVRCNC, but
I'll honor that decision in my reply.
See interspersed.
Gary W2CS
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of alsopb
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 2:15 PM
> To: pvrcnc
> Subject: [PVRCNC] New 5 Meg algorithm?
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Well, I'm glad to have triggered a discussion on this.
>
> I am not bitching about he system but rather pointing out what I see
> as its current "features" and my perception of their impact.
>
> With the exception of one reply, the central issues were ignored.
>
> They were:
> 1) Is it an incentive? (my point was it could indeed be a
> disincentive). If not, would some other scoring algorithm be an
> incentive?
I believe it IS an incentive. Nor was this ignored IMHO in the remarks. It
is an incentive for people to spend more time, more bux on the station, more
effort honing operator skills, or an incentive to spend time at a
well-equipped station, instead, etc. If you want the 5M award or
endorsement, you need to work for it. This could be by helping staff a
multi-op station. The bottom line is that it IS an incentive for PVRC to
gain more total points. If a given operator values running his own station,
and thereby gains fewer points for the CLUB in a given contest than he would
be helping with a multi effort, that's his choice and he is rewarded (or
not) appropriately by the 5M score structure.
>
> 2) Why in the world should one earn double points for SS?
> Opinion: This was done to encourage enough participation to win back
> the trophy. It hasn't and probably won't succeed given the
> numbers. Either make all contests normalized to 2 million points or
> drop it back to 1 meg. Personal adgenda here. I hate SS. It is only
> one of a spectrum of contests and should not be weighted higher.
SS should be treated no differently. Clearly, this club needs to get ACTIVE
membership interested in SS. In fact, overall for ALL contests, based on
numbers I saw last year, it would appear that the membership is pretty
INactive in contesting, overall. SS should be treated the same as the
others, I agree
>
> There is perhaps something else. Evaluation.
>
> Out here in the sticks, rumblings that the cost of the program is
> beginning to be an issue have been detected. Should the program be
> dropped, phased out or modified?
>
> This is as good a time as any to discuss these issue openly. With the
> bottom of the sunspot cycle approaching, incentive is going to be more
> important than ever.
>
> I kind of view coming up with a "fair" 5M point system is like the
> schools trying to come up with a "fair" marking system. What they are
> struggling with is the same: How to keep people from dropping out and
> participating and yet rewards based upon some figure of
> merit.
Now you're getting my hackles up ;-). This starts smacking of reducing the
expectations, something that I believe is a fundamental route cause of a ton
of problems in the USA today.
>
> Here's some things I've been kicking around:
>
> 1) Cost area. Recycle plaques. I'd be glad to turn mine in in
> exchange for paper. There is at least some residual value which would
> reduce the cost of new plaques and still provided new awardees a
> plaque. Possibly, new awardees could be given a choice between plaque
> and paper.
Alternative: Put out a formal call for contributions. It's pretty loosey
goosey right now. Or, assess a cost to the plaque when it's issued. Leave
it up to the operator whether he/she wishes to pay the $15 or whatever.
>
> 2) Scoring/incentive. Use the average of a particular contest as the
> normalizing point. Limit max awarded points to 1 meg/contest. Adjust
> the 1 million points/contest normalizing value downward to perhaps
> 500K as part of this change. This would tend to eliminate "curve
> wrecker" distortions. It also reward the average contester. My
> perception is that this would provide a realistic incentive. Let's
> face it, more guys can make it to average or above than to the top.
>
> Below are reworked scores of last seasons SSCW, 160PH, WWPH comparing
> the present and old algorithm. (SS was normalized to 1 meg not the 2
> meg)
>
> Judge for yourself which provides more incentive. (hope it doesn't get
> truncated).
Looks ok here. The WW comparison really does not turn me on, frankly. Let
me pick on K7SV's score for example. Here's a score that is about 1/7th of
the score of the leader. Yet his "5M score" point value is 1/2th that of
the leader. You just made it easier to gather 5M points. But have you
increased the club score at all?
I contend you haven't. Popguns, like myself, will, if motivated by 5M
award, work their way up the contest score (using past contest scores as a
guide) and stop when they reach a point of diminishing returns; if not
motivated by 5M award, then it's a wash. Thus, it's a net negative for the
popguns. For the big guns I think similar logic holds only this time, the
club score suffers more obviously, since these are the guys who COULD make
high scores, but, if motivated by 5M are more likely to stop early; if not
motivated by 5M, it's a wash.
Thus, making the scoring easier is a net negative as an incentive and as a
club score enhancer. The current system is OK inasmuch as it can at least
be justified as having a 5M score proportionally based.
For SS the differences in the scoring system are less obvious, since the
popguns and big guns pretty much have the same multipliers and Qs are the
only score determinant that remains as a differentiator.
73,
Gary W2CS
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
> LAST SEASONS WWSSB AVG. SCORE = 952862
> CALL SCORE 5MEG REV. 5MEG
> N3HS 9063 1332 4756
> K1SO 13206 1940 6930
> WA3RGH 18966 2787 9952
> W4RIM 26448 3886 13878
> K4NYS 26869 3948 14099
> N8CH 28120 4132 14756
> W4XP 29340 4311 15396
> N3EYB 39552 5812 20754
> WW4M 42528 6249 22316
> AD3F 81744 12011 42894
> AA4KD 95147 13980 49927
> NI4S 105168 15453 55185
> KO4MR 106403 15634 55833
> AJ3M 108675 15968 57026
> W3KHZ 124032 18225 65084
> W3DF 137411 20190 72104
> N4GU 145314 21352 76251
> N4ZR 153996 22627 80807
> N3GPU 211560 31085 111013
> W3CP 216505 31812 113608
> KG6AR 219888 32309 115383
> N3UN 248392 36497 130340
> N4MO 254975 37465 133794
> K3AN 271950 39959 142702
> N4EL 279642 41089 146738
> K2YWE 316294 46474 165971
> NE3H 325045 47760 170563
> W4YE 355416 52223 186499
> K3SX 360429 52959 189130
> W3DQ 368634 54165 193435
> WK4R 380182 55862 199495
> W3MR 413960 60825 217219
> K1GG 420370 61767 220583
> AD4L 432051 63483 226712
> K4HA 451000 66267 236656
> K3DSP 575989 84633 302242
> W3HVQ 597600 87808 313582
> K1EFI 629432 92485 330285
> K3GEG 648188 95241 340127
> N3HBX 700520 102930 367587
> N3WZR 722150 106109 378937
> N4CW 761100 111832 399376
> W3OU 817424 120108 428931
> K3ZJ 828070 121672 434517
> N3UM 856107 125791 449229
> W4IDX 896000 131653 470163
> W4JAM 945378 138908 496073
> K3KO 1038385 152574 544877
> W3UJ 1045716 153652 548724
> K7SV 1086608 159660 570181
> W4PRO 1100704 161731 577578
> N3HXQ 1139515 167434 597943
> N4GG 1175112 172664 616622
> N4MM 1188480 174628 623637
> K2UOP 1297864 190701 681035
> W3EKT 1457184 214110 764636
> N4YDU 1479720 217422 776461
> W4ZV 1514688 222560 794810
> K4MA 1895418 278502 994592
> KV3R 2054196 301832 1000000
> K3SV 2065488 303491 1000000
> W4RM 2353923 345872 1000000
> N3AM 2628744 386253 1000000
> NX9T 2945163 432745 1000000
> W4NF 3953936 580969 1000000
> N3RR 5371899 789316 1000000
> K3ZO 5399865 793425 1000000
> K4ZW 6805764 1000000 1000000
>
> LAST SEASONS CW SS AVG.SCORE = 88117
> CALL SCORE 5MEG REV. 5MEG
> K4IQ 1200 5721 6809
> WD3P 2576 12281 14617
> N3FX 2640 12586 14980
> W2CS 4140 19737 23491
> WD3A 5850 27889 33194
> K4EU 9782 46634 55506
> K3DSP 10710 51058 60771
> W4HM 10920 52059 61963
> N3UN 12556 59859 71246
> W4HJ 15680 74752 88973
> NX9T 16500 78661 93625
> N3KW 16864 80397 95691
> N4MM 17816 84935 101093
> W4PW 18256 87033 103589
> W4RX 21328 101678 121021
> N8II 25320 120709 143672
> N4TL 27090 129148 153716
> K1GG 30084 143421 170705
> W3CP 36400 173532 206543
> AA4KD 36820 175534 208927
> W3ZZ 36960 176201 209721
> K1KO 37252 177593 211378
> W3SO 37788 180149 214419
> W3DAD 38280 182494 217211
> NT4D 40800 194508 231510
> W3BP 45426 216562 257759
> K2YWE 47232 225172 268007
> W4RIM 51246 244308 290783
> NE3H 51948 247654 294767
> W4TNX 53404 254596 303029
> K3RA 56960 271548 323206
> K4VV 60800 289855 344995
> K3SV 60800 289855 344995
> N3HUV 64464 307323 365786
> KM3V 66750 318221 378757
> K2UOP 69160 329710 392432
> W3EKT 71760 342105 407185
> W3AZ 76000 362319 431244
> KO4PY 81900 390446 464722
> W3SY 83250 396882 472383
> NC3Y 83916 400057 476162
> WX3B 87552 417391 496793
> K3AN 88088 419947 499835
> K4TX 89644 427365 508664
> K3KU 90480 431350 513408
> KO7X 91572 436556 519604
> N3OC 91640 436880 519990
> W4YE 95160 453661 539963
> W3UJ 95784 456636 543504
> W3CB 98124 467792 556782
> N4GG 100800 480549 571966
> N3UM 112008 533982 635563
> K3KO 112812 537815 640125
> KT3Y 115340 549867 654470
> K2AV 117078 558152 664332
> N4GU 119196 568249 676350
> K4QPL 120120 572654 681593
> K3DI 121120 577422 687267
> W4IDX 121198 577794 687710
> N4MO 126280 602021 716546
> N1WR 127190 606360 721710
> N4CW 128000 610221 726306
> N3AM 130034 619918 737848
> N4YDU 131140 625191 744123
> K3TM 133920 638444 759898
> W3HVQ 134750 642401 764608
> WY3A 137776 656827 781778
> N3SB 139370 664426 790823
> N2NFG 140620 670385 797915
> K7SV 141920 676583 805292
> WJ9B 145120 691838 823450
> W4NF 156894 747969 890258
> W4ML 157920 752860 896080
> K2PLF 160000 762777 907883
> NY3A 165426 788644 938671
> ND3A 166720 794813 946014
> K4MA 169440 807780 961448
> K3ZO 169920 810069 964171
> KD4D 173010 824800 981705
> N4ZR 175200 835240 994132
> W2GG 181120 863463 1000000
> W3PP 182400 869565 1000000
> W4MR 193600 922960 1000000
> K3MM 206080 982456 1000000
> N4AF 209760 1000000 1000000
>
> LAST SEASONS 160SSB AVG. SCORE = 40464
> CALL SCORE 5MEG REV.5MEG
> N4CW 2834 9243 35018
> 4U1WB 3192 10411 39442
> K3SV 3504 11428 43297
> K3DSP 5040 16438 62277
> N3WKE 6293 20525 77760
> W2YE 6732 21957 83184
> W3CP 7560 24657 93415
> W4YE 7623 24863 94194
> W4TNX 8225 26826 101632
> N3ND 8260 26940 102065
> W2GG 9456 30841 116843
> K4YT 10218 33326 126259
> AD3F 12040 39269 148773
> K3SKE 12690 41389 156804
> K3IXD 12903 42084 159436
> N3HXQ 13248 43209 163699
> N4MM 17340 56555 214262
> N3AM 17808 58082 220045
> N3AM 17808 58082 220045
> W4HJ 18480 60273 228349
> K3KO 20041 65365 247637
> K8OQL 21574 70365 266580
> W3LL 29093 94888 359489
> AA4NC 41838 136457 516972
> WK4Y 54927 179147 678707
> K3MM 61344 200076 757999
> K2UOP 82522 269149 1000000
> K3DI 83296 271674 1000000
> NX9T 108261 353098 1000000
> K2PLF 110349 359908 1000000
> N3HBX 173760 566726 1000000
> W4MYA 306603 1000000 1000000
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