[PVRCNC] New 5 Meg algorithm?

Gary Ferdinand W2CS [email protected]
Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:50:43 -0400


Brian...dunno why you restricted the posting of this only to PVRCNC, but
I'll honor that decision in my reply.

See interspersed.

Gary W2CS



> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of alsopb
> Sent: Monday, June 23, 2003 2:15 PM
> To: pvrcnc
> Subject: [PVRCNC] New 5 Meg algorithm?
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Well, I'm glad to have triggered a discussion on this.
>
> I am not bitching about he system but rather pointing out what I see
> as its current "features" and my perception of their impact.
>
> With the exception of one reply, the central issues were ignored.
>
> They were:
> 1) Is it an incentive? (my point was it could indeed be a
> disincentive).  If not, would some other scoring algorithm be an
> incentive?

I believe it IS an incentive. Nor was this ignored IMHO in the remarks.  It
is an incentive for people to spend more time, more bux on the station, more
effort honing operator skills, or an incentive to spend time at a
well-equipped station, instead, etc.  If you want the 5M award or
endorsement, you need to work for it.  This could be by helping staff a
multi-op station. The bottom line is that it IS an incentive for PVRC to
gain more total points.  If a given operator values running his own station,
and thereby gains fewer points for the CLUB in a given contest than he would
be helping with a multi effort, that's his choice and he is rewarded (or
not) appropriately by the 5M score structure.

>
> 2) Why in the world should one earn double points for SS?
> Opinion: This was done to encourage enough participation to win back
> the    trophy.  It hasn't and probably won't succeed given the
> numbers.  Either make all contests normalized to 2 million points or
> drop it back to 1 meg.  Personal adgenda here.  I hate SS.  It is only
> one of a spectrum of contests and should not be weighted higher.

SS should be treated no differently.  Clearly, this club needs to get ACTIVE
membership interested in SS.  In fact, overall for ALL contests, based on
numbers I saw last year, it would appear that the membership is pretty
INactive in contesting, overall.  SS should be treated the same as the
others, I agree

>
> There is perhaps something else.  Evaluation.
>
> Out here in the sticks, rumblings that the cost of the program is
> beginning to be an issue have been detected.  Should the program be
> dropped, phased out or modified?
>
> This is as good a time as any to discuss these issue openly.  With the
> bottom of the sunspot cycle approaching, incentive is going to be more
> important than ever.
>
> I kind of view coming up with a "fair" 5M point system is like the
> schools trying to come up with a "fair" marking system.  What they are
> struggling with is the same:  How to keep people from dropping out and
> participating and yet rewards based upon some figure of
> merit.

Now you're getting my hackles up ;-).  This starts smacking of reducing the
expectations, something that I believe is a fundamental route cause of a ton
of problems in the USA today.

>
> Here's some things I've been kicking around:
>
> 1) Cost area.  Recycle plaques.  I'd be glad to turn mine in in
> exchange for paper.  There is at least some residual value which would
> reduce the cost of new plaques and still provided new awardees a
> plaque.  Possibly, new awardees could be given a choice between plaque
> and paper.

Alternative:  Put out a formal call for contributions. It's pretty loosey
goosey right now.  Or, assess a cost to the plaque when it's issued.  Leave
it up to the operator whether he/she wishes to pay the $15 or whatever.

>
> 2) Scoring/incentive.  Use the average of a particular contest as the
> normalizing point.  Limit max awarded points to 1 meg/contest.  Adjust
> the 1 million points/contest normalizing value downward to perhaps
> 500K as part of this change.  This would tend to eliminate "curve
> wrecker" distortions.  It also reward the average contester.  My
> perception is that this would provide a realistic incentive.  Let's
> face it, more guys can make it to average or above than to the top.
>
> Below are reworked scores of last seasons SSCW, 160PH, WWPH comparing
> the present and old algorithm.  (SS was normalized to 1 meg not the 2
> meg)
>
> Judge for yourself which provides more incentive. (hope it doesn't get
> truncated).

Looks ok here.  The WW comparison really does not turn me on, frankly.  Let
me pick on K7SV's score for example.  Here's a score that is about 1/7th of
the score of the leader.  Yet his "5M score" point value is 1/2th that of
the leader. You just made it easier to gather 5M points. But have you
increased the club score at all?

I contend you haven't.  Popguns, like myself, will, if motivated by 5M
award, work their way up the contest score (using past contest scores as a
guide) and stop when they reach a point of diminishing returns; if not
motivated by 5M award, then it's a wash.  Thus, it's a net negative for the
popguns.   For the big guns I think similar logic holds only this time, the
club score suffers more obviously, since these are the guys who COULD make
high scores, but, if motivated by 5M are more likely to stop early; if not
motivated by 5M, it's a wash.

Thus, making the scoring easier is a net negative as an incentive and as a
club score enhancer.  The current system is OK inasmuch as it can at least
be justified as having a 5M score proportionally based.

For SS the differences in the scoring system are less obvious, since the
popguns and big guns pretty much have the same multipliers and Qs are the
only score determinant that remains as a differentiator.

73,

Gary W2CS



>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
> LAST SEASONS WWSSB   AVG. SCORE = 952862
> CALL           SCORE      5MEG   REV. 5MEG
> N3HS            9063      1332      4756
> K1SO           13206      1940      6930
> WA3RGH         18966      2787      9952
> W4RIM          26448      3886     13878
> K4NYS          26869      3948     14099
> N8CH           28120      4132     14756
> W4XP           29340      4311     15396
> N3EYB          39552      5812     20754
> WW4M           42528      6249     22316
> AD3F           81744     12011     42894
> AA4KD          95147     13980     49927
> NI4S          105168     15453     55185
> KO4MR         106403     15634     55833
> AJ3M          108675     15968     57026
> W3KHZ         124032     18225     65084
> W3DF          137411     20190     72104
> N4GU          145314     21352     76251
> N4ZR          153996     22627     80807
> N3GPU         211560     31085    111013
> W3CP          216505     31812    113608
> KG6AR         219888     32309    115383
> N3UN          248392     36497    130340
> N4MO          254975     37465    133794
> K3AN          271950     39959    142702
> N4EL          279642     41089    146738
> K2YWE         316294     46474    165971
> NE3H          325045     47760    170563
> W4YE          355416     52223    186499
> K3SX          360429     52959    189130
> W3DQ          368634     54165    193435
> WK4R          380182     55862    199495
> W3MR          413960     60825    217219
> K1GG          420370     61767    220583
> AD4L          432051     63483    226712
> K4HA          451000     66267    236656
> K3DSP         575989     84633    302242
> W3HVQ         597600     87808    313582
> K1EFI         629432     92485    330285
> K3GEG         648188     95241    340127
> N3HBX         700520    102930    367587
> N3WZR         722150    106109    378937
> N4CW          761100    111832    399376
> W3OU          817424    120108    428931
> K3ZJ          828070    121672    434517
> N3UM          856107    125791    449229
> W4IDX         896000    131653    470163
> W4JAM         945378    138908    496073
> K3KO         1038385    152574    544877
> W3UJ         1045716    153652    548724
> K7SV         1086608    159660    570181
> W4PRO        1100704    161731    577578
> N3HXQ        1139515    167434    597943
> N4GG         1175112    172664    616622
> N4MM         1188480    174628    623637
> K2UOP        1297864    190701    681035
> W3EKT        1457184    214110    764636
> N4YDU        1479720    217422    776461
> W4ZV         1514688    222560    794810
> K4MA         1895418    278502    994592
> KV3R         2054196    301832   1000000
> K3SV         2065488    303491   1000000
> W4RM         2353923    345872   1000000
> N3AM         2628744    386253   1000000
> NX9T         2945163    432745   1000000
> W4NF         3953936    580969   1000000
> N3RR         5371899    789316   1000000
> K3ZO         5399865    793425   1000000
> K4ZW         6805764   1000000   1000000
>
> LAST SEASONS CW SS     AVG.SCORE = 88117
> CALL           SCORE      5MEG   REV. 5MEG
> K4IQ            1200      5721      6809
> WD3P            2576     12281     14617
> N3FX            2640     12586     14980
> W2CS            4140     19737     23491
> WD3A            5850     27889     33194
> K4EU            9782     46634     55506
> K3DSP          10710     51058     60771
> W4HM           10920     52059     61963
> N3UN           12556     59859     71246
> W4HJ           15680     74752     88973
> NX9T           16500     78661     93625
> N3KW           16864     80397     95691
> N4MM           17816     84935    101093
> W4PW           18256     87033    103589
> W4RX           21328    101678    121021
> N8II           25320    120709    143672
> N4TL           27090    129148    153716
> K1GG           30084    143421    170705
> W3CP           36400    173532    206543
> AA4KD          36820    175534    208927
> W3ZZ           36960    176201    209721
> K1KO           37252    177593    211378
> W3SO           37788    180149    214419
> W3DAD          38280    182494    217211
> NT4D           40800    194508    231510
> W3BP           45426    216562    257759
> K2YWE          47232    225172    268007
> W4RIM          51246    244308    290783
> NE3H           51948    247654    294767
> W4TNX          53404    254596    303029
> K3RA           56960    271548    323206
> K4VV           60800    289855    344995
> K3SV           60800    289855    344995
> N3HUV          64464    307323    365786
> KM3V           66750    318221    378757
> K2UOP          69160    329710    392432
> W3EKT          71760    342105    407185
> W3AZ           76000    362319    431244
> KO4PY          81900    390446    464722
> W3SY           83250    396882    472383
> NC3Y           83916    400057    476162
> WX3B           87552    417391    496793
> K3AN           88088    419947    499835
> K4TX           89644    427365    508664
> K3KU           90480    431350    513408
> KO7X           91572    436556    519604
> N3OC           91640    436880    519990
> W4YE           95160    453661    539963
> W3UJ           95784    456636    543504
> W3CB           98124    467792    556782
> N4GG          100800    480549    571966
> N3UM          112008    533982    635563
> K3KO          112812    537815    640125
> KT3Y          115340    549867    654470
> K2AV          117078    558152    664332
> N4GU          119196    568249    676350
> K4QPL         120120    572654    681593
> K3DI          121120    577422    687267
> W4IDX         121198    577794    687710
> N4MO          126280    602021    716546
> N1WR          127190    606360    721710
> N4CW          128000    610221    726306
> N3AM          130034    619918    737848
> N4YDU         131140    625191    744123
> K3TM          133920    638444    759898
> W3HVQ         134750    642401    764608
> WY3A          137776    656827    781778
> N3SB          139370    664426    790823
> N2NFG         140620    670385    797915
> K7SV          141920    676583    805292
> WJ9B          145120    691838    823450
> W4NF          156894    747969    890258
> W4ML          157920    752860    896080
> K2PLF         160000    762777    907883
> NY3A          165426    788644    938671
> ND3A          166720    794813    946014
> K4MA          169440    807780    961448
> K3ZO          169920    810069    964171
> KD4D          173010    824800    981705
> N4ZR          175200    835240    994132
> W2GG          181120    863463   1000000
> W3PP          182400    869565   1000000
> W4MR          193600    922960   1000000
> K3MM          206080    982456   1000000
> N4AF          209760   1000000   1000000
>
> LAST SEASONS 160SSB   AVG. SCORE = 40464
> CALL           SCORE      5MEG   REV.5MEG
> N4CW            2834      9243     35018
> 4U1WB           3192     10411     39442
> K3SV            3504     11428     43297
> K3DSP           5040     16438     62277
> N3WKE           6293     20525     77760
> W2YE            6732     21957     83184
> W3CP            7560     24657     93415
> W4YE            7623     24863     94194
> W4TNX           8225     26826    101632
> N3ND            8260     26940    102065
> W2GG            9456     30841    116843
> K4YT           10218     33326    126259
> AD3F           12040     39269    148773
> K3SKE          12690     41389    156804
> K3IXD          12903     42084    159436
> N3HXQ          13248     43209    163699
> N4MM           17340     56555    214262
> N3AM           17808     58082    220045
> N3AM           17808     58082    220045
> W4HJ           18480     60273    228349
> K3KO           20041     65365    247637
> K8OQL          21574     70365    266580
> W3LL           29093     94888    359489
> AA4NC          41838    136457    516972
> WK4Y           54927    179147    678707
> K3MM           61344    200076    757999
> K2UOP          82522    269149   1000000
> K3DI           83296    271674   1000000
> NX9T          108261    353098   1000000
> K2PLF         110349    359908   1000000
> N3HBX         173760    566726   1000000
> W4MYA         306603   1000000   1000000
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