[Premium-Rx] Experiment: How to readjust a drifted carbon compresistor

Tue Jul 29 11:02:54 EDT 2014

Glenn,

Allen Bradley developed some proprietary processes early their carbon comp
production.   I have heard that they used higher compression on the carbon
material and used sealing materials that discouraged contaminant intrusion.

AB became part of Rockwell Automation and sold off the resistor line to
Vishay, so new AB parts haven't been available for some time.  

I have heard a story that at some point, the US government attempted to do a
source inspection at AB to "qualify" them for MilSpec purposes.  AB refused
to allow the inspectors to have access to their proprietary process because
they said they had plenty of business and didn't need the hassle related to
MilSpec work.  As it worked out, the quality was so good that AB went on to
be a major supplier to the space and other critical programs, so evidently
the MilSpec issue was never a problem.  Have not been able to confirm any of
this; would be interested in knowing if anyone else has heard these stories.

Jim
W0nkn

-----Original Message-----
From: Premium-Rx [mailto:premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Glenn Little
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2014 6:36 PM
To: jrusgrove at comcast.net; premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Experiment: How to readjust a drifted carbon
compresistor

Does anyone address the reason for the resistors drifting high?

I have some resistors removed from WWII equipment that are in their 5%
tolerance.

I suspect that something changed in the way that the resistors were sealed
allowing moisture to the clay/carbon composite.
I also suspect that the resistor value was determined by the amount of
carbon added to the binder.
As the moisture got into the clay composite, the binder swelled, decreasing
the compression of the clay causing the resistance to go up.
This is my thoughts with nothing concrete to confirm this failure mode.

Any thoughts?

Might help to predict the failure of our receivers.

73
Glenn
WB4UIV

At 09:16 PM 7/17/2014, jrusgrove at comcast.net wrote:
>Ran into moisture absorption / value drift about 10 years ago when 
>developing resistively loaded collection antennas for a mil project.
>At the time not very many suppliers were stocking carbon comps as most 
>customers had moved on to the newer resistor types. One supplier had 
>NOS resistors in the original sleeves / plastic. Needed
>40 different resistor values but only a handful of each value. They 
>were sold in full sleeves so there were plenty to sort through.
>Almost all had drifted out of tolerance to the high side - some several 
>times the tolerance. A call to the supplier turned up MIL-R-39008C. Of 
>particular interest was section 6.9 on page 30:
>
>http://www.w1vd.com/MIL-R-39008Cpage30.pdf
>
>After baking for the allotted time almost all of the resistors were 
>back in tolerance ... most were quite close to the indicated value.
>The antenna circuit boards and resistors were conformal coated and only 
>minimal resistance change was noted over the course of the next year - 
>the last time I had access to the antennas.
>
>I've seen many high reading carbon comp resistors while restoring tube 
>type receivers. The worst offenders seem to be screen-dropping 
>resistors. These dissipate a fair amount of power and may be more 
>'stressed' than resistors elsewhere in the receiver. Leaky 'black 
>beauty' (or similar) bypass capacitor from screen to ground add to the 
>resistor dissipation.
>
>Interestingly, new manufacture carbon comps appear quite glossy - 
>perhaps manufacturers are using an improved coating to stave off 
>moisture absorption. Would be interesting to get confirmation on this.
>
>Jay W1VD
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Tisha Hayes" 
><tisha.hayes at gmail.com>
>To: <premium-rx at mailman.qth.net>
>Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2014 6:34 PM
>Subject: [Premium-Rx] Experiment: How to readjust a drifted carbon 
>compresistor
>
>
>>Usually what causes carbon comp resistors to deteriorate to where the 
>>resistance rises is that the carbon granules gradually suck up moisture.
>>The heating drives out the moisture so you are seeing the values 
>>falling closer to where they originally were from manufacturing.
>>
>>Since the lacquer coating on the resistors is going to be deteriorated 
>>or cooked off I would suggest re-sealing the resistor with a lacquer 
>>(or clear fingernail polish) after they have cooled. Notice that the 
>>values over the next few hours and days begin to creep upwards again 
>>on the resistors that were cooked. If you can keep the moisture from 
>>re-entering the resistor you have a better chance of keeping it stable.
>>
>>Slower, longer duration heat is going to be better than the rapid 
>>treatment. If you had a constant current supply you could estimate the 
>>current draw at the desired resistance and let the resistors run warm. 
>>You want to try to avoid thermal shocks as it is going to embrittle 
>>the carbon granules and make the resistor mechanically fragile (it 
>>will crack and break). Simple wattage calculations (E*I=W) will let 
>>you calculate the thermal wattage.
>>
>>--
>>Ms. Tisha Hayes. AA4HA
>>
>>*""In this denial of the right to participate in government, not 
>>merely the degradation of woman and the perpetuation of a great 
>>injustice happens, but the maiming and repudiation of one-half of the 
>>moral and intellectual power of the government of the world." -- 
>>Fredrick Douglass"* 
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