[Premium-Rx] Best Premium Receiver?
Gary Geissinger
ggeissinger at digitalglobe.com
Wed Nov 7 16:01:34 EST 2007
Guys,
For some time Skip Cubbedge (K0UE) and I have been thinking about doing a series of tests to measure the implementation loss due to receivers and demodulators for a number of digital modes.
This came up because we have noticed that some receivers and demodulators "seem" to have lower error rates than others.
For example, it "seems like" the combination of an (HF-1000 or a WJ-8718A) and Dovetron MPC-1000R are less susceptible to errors than other combinations we have tried on RTTY. This includes receivers (or receivers contained in) such as the IC-7800, IC-7000, R-9000, and demodulators like the internal one in the IC-7800, PK-232, Hoka, Sky Sweeper, and the PTC-II. It is interesting to note that the Collins 75S-3B and R-390A when properly aligned and warmed up are pretty darned competitive while I could never get really good results from the two 651S-1 receivers I tried.
In the case of the Dovetron it makes pretty good sense; it has matched filters that optimize detection as well as a clean thresholding and detecting chain. Hank Scharf was a heck of an engineer. But it's not as clear with the receivers. Even when the bandwidths are set to be the same, the error rates appear different even when there are no interfering signals nearby. But it's time to do this right rather than just operate on the appearance of the data.
We will probably limit ourselves to an AWGN type channel, at least initially. For simplicity sake we will probably do RTTY and PSK31 first.
In this discussion I've been hearing a lot about AM and sync AM. I wonder, for digital modes, what receivers have really distinguished themselves? We only have limited experience with premium receivers and none with other players like R&S, Racal, Plessey, etc.
Gary WA0SPM
BTW: I love my SE-3 with my HF-1000 for AM listening. GG
-----Original Message-----
From: premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Aidehua at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:41 AM
To: ac7zg at verizon.net
Cc: Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Best Premium Receiver?
I'm with Don. As a stand alone rx, the 9500 is better insofaras Synch Detection, though the HF-1000's SAM ain't too bad. But coupled with the SE-3, the WJ wins (if the 7800 is indeed an accurate representation of the 9500). A true comparison would be between the WJ w/SE-3 and the 9500 w/SE-3.
But's it's truly an "apples and oranges" comparison, as the 9500 covers so much more than HF, plus the Dynamic Range is superior because of the many choices of roofing filters. Even so, I'd rather have 2-3 WJs for the price of ONE 9500. I use several receivers through a Harris multicoupler, listening for a station's simultaneous broadcasts for accurate verification. I use ONE
SE-3 through a 12 position SE-6.
I have one of Chuck's modified R390As and this is truly hard to beat on audio recovery, hearing .07 microvolt signals, with minimal noise floor.
My station's at www.qrz.com/ni6s
Haven't had this much fun on the Prem Rx List for a while! Glad to see it become lively again, just like in 1999!!
73,
Ed NI6S
In a message dated 11/6/2007 6:20:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, ac7zg at verizon.net writes:
> It proves that the SE3 and not the WJ makes the difference,doesn't it?
>73
>Clemens
>DL4RAJ
I don't think I ever said anything about the WJ standalone - I have ALWAYS
used the SE3 in combination for the results I have reported on.
It's the combination of the two.
Its similar to saying "it's the antenna not the receiver that matters" -
again its both not just one or the other.
By the way, the combination of the R-390A and the SE-3 is pretty sweet too.
Chuck Rippel turned me on to this one when we talked at a Grayland
DXpedition (not ham dxpedition, but SWL/TPDX).
You probably back in premium receiver where this R-390A/SE3 combination
picked up the last of the Radio St Helena broadcasts (off the old commercial
equipment) fading in several minutes before even the WJ/SE-3 did, then
followed by R3030A/SE3, the R590A(I recall having an SE-3 on this one as
well but I'd have to check) as well by 535D(Kiwa modified) and then finally
the 545? That makes the R-390A/SE-3 even more sensitive to weak signals by
a few minutes during their fade-in here on the left coast.
I certainly enjoy my WJ's for weak signal dxing. If I want dx music, the
Kiwa-modified NRD535D is even better than the others.
Best 73
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Clemens Paul [mailto:cpaul at gmx.net]
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 12:32 PM
To: Don
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Best Premium Receiver?
Don,
>The article does not say that it was done with a SE-3 with the WJ.
>Even you know that the synch detector of the WJ's isn't good without the
>SE-3.
>So this does not prove anything about the WJ+SE-3, does it?
It proves that the SE3 and not the WJ makes the difference,doesn't it?
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Don
To: Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:18 PM
Subject: RE: [Premium-Rx] Best Premium Receiver?
Clemens
The article does not say that it was done with a SE-3 with the WJ.
Even you know that the synch detector of the WJ's isn't good without the
SE-3.
So this does not prove anything about the WJ+SE-3, does it?
Perhaps you can point to such a test?
-----Original Message-----
From: premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net
[mailto:premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Clemens Paul
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 12:13 PM
To: Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Premium-Rx] Best Premium Receiver?
Hi,
>For example, I read that the WJ
>HF-1000A/8711A blows away the Icom 7800's receiver or that the Icom
IC-R9500
>isn't necessarily the greatest.
It would be interesting to know where you've read such a biased nonsense.
Go to
http://www.ratzer.at/9500.php
Then scroll down just below the third picture.
Load down the the mp3 file on the end of the second text paragraph,see
below:
"Mittelwellenempfang: Radio Tien Gold, Niederlande auf 1008 kHz. Sehr gut
erkennbar die
ausgezeichnete Arbeitsweise des Synch-AM Empfangs im 9500, welcher das
Fading des Musiksenders
wesentlich besser verarbeiten kann als der HF1000A. Aufnahme von Radio Tien
Gold, Niederlande,
8. März 2007, 2250 UT. Bandbreite 8 kHz. Reihenfolge: 30 sec 9500, 30 sec
HF1000A, 30 sec
9500, 30 sec HF1000A. mp3 Audiodatei, 1,8 MB"
Now you can hear a *proof* not a rumor which one performs better.
Both rx operate in synch am and the 9500 copes much better with the fading
am signal than the
HF1000A.
The sequence is 30 seconds 9500,30seconds HF1000A,30seconds 9500,30seconds
HF1000A.
Regarding DR3 and other essential specs the 9500's rx on sw is virtually
identical to the
7800's rx.
73
Clemens
DL4RAJ
----- Original Message -----
From: Aidehua at aol.com
To: premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 9:22 AM
Subject: [Premium-Rx] Best Premium Receiver?
Just curious as to how some premium receivers stack up against some others,
either consumer or commercial-grade rigs. For example, I read that the WJ
HF-1000A/8711A blows away the Icom 7800's receiver or that the Icom
IC-R9500
isn't necessarily the greatest.
My personal favorite is indeed the HF-1000A because of it's sensitivity,
selectivity and superb audio recovery. A close second is the Harris
RF-590A....Just wondering what some of your favorites may be....I challenge
my
receivers through their ability to pull out weak signals on the Tropical
Bands....The
HF-1000 seems to hear sigs my other receivers cannot. Your mileage may
vary. Please share your experiences....
Regards,
Ed NI6S
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