[PPRAANet] Waldo Canyon Fire info

Tue Jul 2 11:34:46 EDT 2013

I think it is time this off topic discussion was taken off the club list.
 It may vaguely be related to PPRAA but it is now beyond that.

73 - john - n0hj

On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 9:30 AM, Mick Sparling <mickspa at comcast.net> wrote:

> One the great things about getting old is how liberating it can be...real
> freedom of speech!
>
> Unfortunately, one of the techniques so often used today to get the upper
> hand and "win" an argument is to get personal.  Well fine then....In this
> case Dick becomes a verbal bully to demean the character and intellect of
> his new found "opponent."  The "originator," that's me, Mick, is now
> "stupid," has a bad "attitude" and can't seem to be able to do anything
> right to save his "own ass."  Well Dick, this isn't a fight you can win
> that way.  Actually this isn't a fight at all, at least not one of my
> making.  So Dick, why don't you just stop being a bully and STFU (don't you
> just love those texting acronyms, never quite sure exactly what insult is
> being delivered?).
>
> I would not, for a moment, diminish the dedication, valor and heroics of
> fire fighters or any other first responders for that matter.  To them I say
> thank you!  You have my love and admiration, so again THANK YOU!!!  But,
> despite efforts to make it so, this isn't about that!
>
> Internet "scanner radio" is about listening to only *one* "channel" at a
> time.  "Colorado Springs Police and El Paso County Sheriff," "Colorado
> State Patrol - El Paso, Teller, and Pueblo Counties," "El Paso County
> Sheriff - North and South Dispatch" and a multitude of other communication
> entities across the state and our whole nation for that matter are also
> available, but in this case it was "Colorado Springs Fire and EMS."  Let me
> make it clear, I didn't "illegally" hear anything, I actually and clearly
> heard it, in real time, with my own ears, so don't try to tell me what I
> did or didn't hear.
>
> I'll be the first to admit that, in my own case, allot more fire
> mitigation needs to be done and, despite my physical limitations, I'm
> outside, every day, doing what needs to get done.  Its very slow, it
> hearts, but I'm doing it, so don't attack me there either.  BTW, your
> welcome anytime to come by and help.
>
> Hay, I'm entitle to my opernion and free to express it.  Like it or not,
> evacuation is problematic in that it sometimes leaves whole neighborhoods
> abandon and defenseless.  I think that perhaps, if the resources had been
> available, the outcome might have been different, but we'll never know now
> will we?
>
> Anyway, I don't know about you, but I'm tired of all this bickering.  I'm
> a retired engineer, not stupid by any means and I'm not vindictive. So, my
> thanks for the information and thanks again to the first responders
> everywhere.  I just hope, in the future, we individuals can be more
> proactive in the fire fighting process then just evacuate. Like maybe
> dispensation foam...I'm just now exploring that.  I'll let you all know
> what I find out.
>
> 73, Mick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/1/2013 6:30 PM, Dick-W0RAA wrote:
>
>> The puzzling part of this whole chain is that the originator is more
>> concerned with saving his house and has the attitude of the hell with
>> mandatory evacuation.  It's like he could do anything to save his house,
>> let alone his own ass.
>>
>> Those firefighters laid down their own lives to get people out.  None of
>> them expected the Waldo Canyon blaze to "literally explode" and go racing
>> down the side of the mountain to consume 347 homes.  Homes can be replaced,
>> lives cannot.  Sadly 2 people had to die in that fire as well as the two
>> who died during the Black Forest fire.  Those lives were more precious than
>> somebody's home.  The firefighters said they were totally helpless when the
>> fire started to hit Mountain Shadows.  I have a friend who is a firefighter
>> and he said a lot of the guys were in tears because they were not able to
>> save the homes, without the strong possibility of loss of firefighter
>> lives.  There isn't a piece of property on the face of the earth that is
>> worth more than a single life.
>>
>> I never realized you had a possibility of losing a home to a wildfire,
>> Mike.  Glad you didn't lose your home.
>>
>> But as the old saying goes "You can't reason with stupid."
>>
>>
>> Dick
>> My memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>> Also, my memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>>
>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 5:17 PM, W0MU Mike Fatchett <w0mu at w0mu.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Excellent point.   If you went over the tapes of each and every channel
>>> that was in use I would bet that you would find many calls for additional
>>> resources across the entire fire.    Mobilizing resources does take some
>>> time.  I bet many FF were woken up after many hours on the fire during the
>>> day to get back out and help.
>>>
>>> Each and every asset, truck and man/woman is accounted for prior to
>>> being assigned.  This does not happen instantly.  The Incident commander
>>> also has to determine which areas need the most help and the best way to
>>> get that help in safely and effectively.
>>>
>>> I have been on the receiving end of a wildfire that burned 3000 acres in
>>> a ranch where I lived and sold property.  I did not lose my house
>>> thankfully.  Those that did started making all sorts of wild accusations
>>> and comments that were baseless.  After that Fire I joined the local
>>> department and had my eyes opened to how these events unfold and how these
>>> fires are fought.  When our fire was going on I was very upset that they
>>> would not fight fire at night when the fire laid down, but once I had the
>>> opportunity to fight a similar fire it became quite clear why they did not.
>>>    Safety of the people is the number one concern.  Everyone goes home
>>> unhurt is our goal.
>>>
>>> Mike W0MU On 7/1/2013 4:58 PM, Dick-W0RAA wrote:
>>>
>>>> There were other areas that also needed help.  I would say that if al
>>>> you basing your information on is what you allegedly heard on a scanner,
>>>> then you are probably not totally aware of what was happening in the entire
>>>> incident area.
>>>>
>>>> Like I said, it's your call.  If you think that sticking around until
>>>> the last minute is the way to go, then go for it.  The firefighters did a
>>>> great job and laid their lives on the line.  I sure they had more to worry
>>>> about than getting people to evacuate who are too stupid to take their
>>>> advise.
>>>>
>>>> Dick
>>>> My memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>>>> Also, my memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Mick Sparling <mickspa at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  After the evacuation, the resources left, leaving the homes undefended
>>>>> (no people in them)!  See the problem???
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/1/2013 2:54 PM, Dick-W0RAA wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The firefighters are professional.  If they suggest mandatory
>>>>>> evacuation you'd be smart to evacuate the area.  But it's your life and
>>>>>> your property.  So, if you think you know all about it, then stay and take
>>>>>> the risk.  Hopefully you will survive, but if not, we can all say he was a
>>>>>> nice guy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dick
>>>>>> My memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>>>>>>
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