[PPRAANet] Waldo Canyon Fire info

W0MU Mike Fatchett w0mu at w0mu.com
Mon Jul 1 19:17:14 EDT 2013 

Excellent point.   If you went over the tapes of each and every channel 
that was in use I would bet that you would find many calls for 
additional resources across the entire fire.    Mobilizing resources 
does take some time.  I bet many FF were woken up after many hours on 
the fire during the day to get back out and help.

Each and every asset, truck and man/woman is accounted for prior to 
being assigned.  This does not happen instantly.  The Incident commander 
also has to determine which areas need the most help and the best way to 
get that help in safely and effectively.

I have been on the receiving end of a wildfire that burned 3000 acres in 
a ranch where I lived and sold property.  I did not lose my house 
thankfully.  Those that did started making all sorts of wild accusations 
and comments that were baseless.  After that Fire I joined the local 
department and had my eyes opened to how these events unfold and how 
these fires are fought.  When our fire was going on I was very upset 
that they would not fight fire at night when the fire laid down, but 
once I had the opportunity to fight a similar fire it became quite clear 
why they did not.    Safety of the people is the number one concern.  
Everyone goes home unhurt is our goal.

Mike W0MU On 7/1/2013 4:58 PM, Dick-W0RAA wrote:
> There were other areas that also needed help.  I would say that if al you basing your information on is what you allegedly heard on a scanner, then you are probably not totally aware of what was happening in the entire incident area.
>
> Like I said, it's your call.  If you think that sticking around until the last minute is the way to go, then go for it.  The firefighters did a great job and laid their lives on the line.  I sure they had more to worry about than getting people to evacuate who are too stupid to take their advise.
>
> Dick
> My memory isn't as good as it used to be.
> Also, my memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>
> On Jul 1, 2013, at 4:34 PM, Mick Sparling <mickspa at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> After the evacuation, the resources left, leaving the homes undefended (no people in them)!  See the problem???
>>
>> On 7/1/2013 2:54 PM, Dick-W0RAA wrote:
>>> The firefighters are professional.  If they suggest mandatory evacuation you'd be smart to evacuate the area.  But it's your life and your property.  So, if you think you know all about it, then stay and take the risk.  Hopefully you will survive, but if not, we can all say he was a nice guy.
>>>
>>> Dick
>>> My memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>>> Also, my memory isn't as good as it used to be.
>>>
>>> On Jul 1, 2013, at 2:19 PM, Mick Sparling <mickspa at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was listening to Internet "scanner radio" about 2:00 AM when the fire went through the Flying W Ranch and was baring down on Mountain Shadows.  What I heard really bothered me!  A fire fighter, on the scene, asked for assistance saying "...this fire is going to take all these homes, one-at-a-time, unless we get some resources here..."  But none were forthcoming until much later when the whole place was ablaze.  ...I heard it with my own ears!
>>>>
>>>> This may sound cynical, but, sorry, it's just the way I see it:
>>>> If you evacuate (Mandatory Evacuation), then they watch your house burn.  If you don't, then they try to save you by saving your home in the process.
>>>> Sorry again, but screw mandatory evacuation! I'm NOT leaving my home until I see flames on my property.  It seems like the wooden decks fire up first, then the fire gets sucked up into the attic through the ventilation ducts or starts burning it from the outside.  Spraying water on the deck to cool it down and plugging the attic ducts and doing all the fire mitigation stuff (like getting high grass, wood and pine needles away from the house would help, but I'm looking into DIY foam (so much better than water).
>>>>
>>>> I guess high winds trump all, but this Mandatory Evacuation thing really sucks and puts whole neighborhoods in jeopardy by diverting resources away when there's still stuff we can do, ourself, to protect our homes!
>>>>
>>>> I suppose this anti-mandatory evacuation idea might piss-off the professionals, but, like I said, I heard it with my own ears!
>>>> Your thoughts and comments are welcomed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/26/2013 7:21 PM, DickT-W0RAA wrote:
>>>>> Thanks for all that information, Paul.  Interesting reading.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dick
>>>>> W0RAA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Signorelli" <w0rw1 at msn.com>
>>>>> To: "PPRAA" <ppraanet at mailman.qth.net>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 4:48 PM
>>>>> Subject: [PPRAANet] Waldo Canyon Fire info
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> In case you missed my previous email here are some details about the Waldo Canyon fire:
>>>>>> It started 1 Year ago.  28-29 June 2012.
>>>>>> Paul   w0rw
>>>>>> -------
>>>>>> i live about 7
>>>>>> miles away from the fire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i was driving on Highway 24 a few hours after
>>>>>> it started, pretty scary...It had
>>>>>> a big mushroom cloud at first.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> side of Highway 24 is now charred in a few places but the fire damage
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>> really too noticeable.
>>>>>> If the fire had jumped Highway 24 (Also
>>>>>> known as the Ute Pass) it would have
>>>>>> gone up the north side of Pikes
>>>>>> Peak.
>>>>>> When they could not stop the fire from Queens canyon, with the wind
>>>>>> conditions,
>>>>>> it got over the top of the last ridge and down into
>>>>>> COS.
>>>>>> The winds were from thunder storm outflow winds, not like the Santa
>>>>>> Ana Winds
>>>>>> that last for weeks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you have never been around a
>>>>>> fire like this, here is what happens:
>>>>>> The local fire departments were
>>>>>> first to hike into the fire.
>>>>>> Waldo Canyon is a popular hiking trail that
>>>>>> runs 3 miles back into the hills
>>>>>> from Highway 24 just west of Manitou
>>>>>> Springs, CO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When i went by the Canyon the USFS already had about 20
>>>>>> trucks there at the
>>>>>> trail head.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The USFS sends a spotter plane in to
>>>>>> direct all the fire fighting efforts.
>>>>>> This plane is called "Waldo Air
>>>>>> Attack".
>>>>>> They set up at TFR (Temporary Flight Restriction) air perimeter
>>>>>> and no other
>>>>>> aircraft are allowed to enter without approval.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> Incident Commander sets a map perimeter around the fire (Assigning sectors
>>>>>> A
>>>>>> through Z, clockwise around the fire) and then assigns Division
>>>>>> Chiefs
>>>>>> to each each sector.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Air Attack" orbits the fire at around
>>>>>> 1000 feet above the fire and directs all
>>>>>> the other aircraft into the fire and
>>>>>> relays ground support requests.
>>>>>> He is the air traffic controller for the
>>>>>> fire zone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Waldo Fire had about 10 choppers flying around one
>>>>>> day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When they need slurry Bombers they send in another "Lead"
>>>>>> plane.
>>>>>> The "Lead" plane orbits 500 feet below "Air Attack" and He (or She -
>>>>>> Great job
>>>>>> Mary) becomes the flight controller for the Bombers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> "Air Attack" assigns the slurry targets and the "Lead" plane will guide
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bombers into the target.
>>>>>> Many of the Bomber pilots have never seen
>>>>>> the terrain so the "Lead" plane will
>>>>>> make a first pass run at the
>>>>>> target.
>>>>>> This is called a "Show Me" pass and He sprays a little water or
>>>>>> smoke so the
>>>>>> bomber can see the exact drop target.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This BLM Procedure
>>>>>> is at
>>>>>> <http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nifc/directives.Par.58885.File.dat/i\
>>>>>> mof&a2003008a1.pdf>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> "Air Attack" must clear all of the guys on the ground out of the target
>>>>>> zone
>>>>>> and He keeps all of the choppers about 2 miles away.
>>>>>> He tells all
>>>>>> aircraft what is happening so they don't have any collisions.
>>>>>> When the
>>>>>> Bombers are returning to base for reloading, the "Lead" plane calls in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bucket drops to reduce the smoke over the target so the
>>>>>> Bombers can see
>>>>>> the target.
>>>>>> Most of the Bombers fly at 120 Knots during the drop and they
>>>>>> accelerated
>>>>>> during the drop as they loose mass..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had 4 MAFF's
>>>>>> (Military C130's) assigned to the fire also. They are like big
>>>>>> spray paint
>>>>>> canisters. They can make up to a quarter mile splash
>>>>>> and vary the spay
>>>>>> width. They lost #7 in South Dakota.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "Air Attack" has a pilot
>>>>>> and a Fire Boss. The Fire Boss is directing the
>>>>>> Fire Suppression Operations
>>>>>> and working 2 radios with 3 frequencies each..
>>>>>> He has to control all the
>>>>>> choppers on VHF AM and all the aircraft on VHF FM.
>>>>>> He gets them assigned
>>>>>> to a division and then switches the to a secondary air to
>>>>>> ground frequency or
>>>>>> hands them off to the "Lead" plane for slurry drops.
>>>>>> "Air Attack" is
>>>>>> usually orbiting over the fire zone for 12 hours in 3 or 4
>>>>>> shifts.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> "Lead" plane is a usually a single seat plane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The guys on the ground
>>>>>> work 12 hours on and 12 hours off. We had around 1500
>>>>>> fire fighters here but
>>>>>> now moved on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The community really
>>>>>> appreciated the work of the fire fighters. Several
>>>>>> restaurants have signs
>>>>>> reading "Free Hamburgers for Firefighters".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i did a little fire work in
>>>>>> the past.
>>>>>> See CQ Mag. June 2010, p.60-63.
>>>>>> i even spent the night in a
>>>>>> 'Spike Camp'.
>>>>>> You can see a live picture of the fire area from the top of
>>>>>> Pikes Peak at
>>>>>> <http://www.cograilway.com/Summit/WeatheratSummitB.htm>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> Waldo Canyon Fire map and additional fire information and videos can be
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> at:
>>>>>> <http://www.inciweb.org/>
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> <http://springsgov.com/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paul  W0RW
>>>>>>
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