From mcoslo at comcast.net  Sat Nov  7 14:36:25 2015
From: mcoslo at comcast.net (Michael Coslo)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 14:36:25 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Plaque Announcement
Message-ID: <726BD422-51A7-4BCD-84BA-4935D7C87B72@comcast.net>

There is a new plaque to be awarded this year.

The Out of State CW only Plaque.

Sponsored by Chip Morgan N3IW

There is a new Sponsor for the Multi-Multi Division

Bob Crossland N3FR.

Thank you gentlemen for your support.



From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 14:39:44 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 14:39:44 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Scoring announcement
Message-ID: <A968C3EB-E5D3-41D5-B381-062C9A2B3D15@gmail.com>

Starting with the 2016 Pennsylvania QSO Party there will be a 300 point bonus for sending in a summary sheet.

Either the sheet provided by the PAQSO, or the summary sheet provided by your logging program.

Either via email or via snail mail is acceptable.

From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 14:42:48 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 14:42:48 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] records announcement
Message-ID: <86975B3B-EAB3-4634-A073-95405DDD8F53@gmail.com>

When the results are posted this year, there will be a small change in the records.

The High power classes EPA and WPA will be separated by single and multi-op.

Previously there was no distinction between the two, and I have found several discrepancies that need addressed.

From w3tdf at ptd.net  Sun Nov  8 13:30:32 2015
From: w3tdf at ptd.net (Ray Bilger)
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2015 13:30:32 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Scoring  etc.   etc.
Message-ID: <001801d11a53$8df115d0$a9d34170$@net>

Good job Mike,

 

Never could understand the need for the summary sheet, but,  having it

sent via 'snail mail'  sure adds a little of enticement for enclosing a

little stipend.  I always send a little extra, to make up for the ones who

cannot 'afford'.

 

Keep the snow shovel available. Woolie worms predict a bad winter !  !

 

De

 

Da Grump


From n3xls at juno.com  Mon Nov  9 12:22:57 2015
From: n3xls at juno.com (=?utf-8?B?bjN4bHNAanVuby5jb20=?=)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2015 12:22:57 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] =?utf-8?q?Scoring_announcement?=
Message-ID: <AABMEBXVUAPJASNJ@smtpout04.vgs.untd.com>

Mike, 
I would assume not getting a summary sheet is one of the biggest issues? Hence the bonus?


----- Reply message -----
From: "Michael Coslo" <mjcn3li at gmail.com>
To: "paqso" <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [PaQSO] Scoring announcement
Date: Sat, Nov 7, 2015 2:39 PM


Starting with the 2016 Pennsylvania QSO Party there will be a 300 point bonus for sending in a summary sheet.

Either the sheet provided by the PAQSO, or the summary sheet provided by your logging program.

Either via email or via snail mail is acceptable.
______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Mon Nov  9 14:46:27 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 14:46:27 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Scoring announcement
In-Reply-To: <AABMEBXVUAPJASNJ@smtpout04.vgs.untd.com>
References: <AABMEBXVUAPJASNJ@smtpout04.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <1FDAEA54-3E72-4959-89EC-A5177A6669BF@gmail.com>

re summary sheets

I?m trying to correct a long standing problem.

In our awards and addressing and many other functions of the party, we use a Filemaker Pro database. Having a summary makes my life a lot easier when I can get the info right into the database. 

Some issues that have come up is that I have been accused of using the summary sheets to avoid checking the individual logs. Not remotely the truth. 50 percent of the logs that come in have never had a summary sheet, and many software programs do not score correctly, or do not differentiate mults do not calculate a summary sheet correctly, or county line stations get 2 qso?s instead of 1, people log dupes, and not all software records them, and some programs allow really creative spelling for mults and counts all of them as  a mult - finally someone broke the 67 county barrier!!! hehe So everything has to be checked. 

And that checking is done solely by me and me alone. The process is not automated, as I have been a spectacular failure in getting fully automated software. When I start explaining what we need, the programmers eyes kinda glaze over, and that?s the end of it.

This year, perhaps because I eliminated the mailed in summary sheet requirement last year, I?m getting even less summary sheets than usual, when people assumed that none was needed at all. Plus after the online summary got corrupted on the website, I figured it was going to be easier for me to just generate them myself instead of sending out emails to have people re-do the summary with the new file. Hundreds of emails will take a lot of time.

So the summary sheets are a big help, and most logging software will make a fairly good one with only a few mouse clicks.

Regardless - I don?t want to whine, so the takeaway is I can always use a smidgem of help to serve the party Ops better.


- 73 Mike N3LI - 


> On Nov 9, 2015, at 12:22 PM, n3xls at juno.com wrote:
> 
> Mike, 
> I would assume not getting a summary sheet is one of the biggest issues? Hence the bonus?
> 
> 
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Michael Coslo" <mjcn3li at gmail.com>
> To: "paqso" <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [PaQSO] Scoring announcement
> Date: Sat, Nov 7, 2015 2:39 PM
> 
> 
> Starting with the 2016 Pennsylvania QSO Party there will be a 300 point bonus for sending in a summary sheet.
> 
> Either the sheet provided by the PAQSO, or the summary sheet provided by your logging program.
> 
> Either via email or via snail mail is acceptable.
> ______________________________________________________________
> PaQSO mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to n3xls at juno.com
> ____________________________________________________________
> Buffett???s New Enemy
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3155/563ebfb58b5053fb404c9mp11vuc
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> PaQSO mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to mjcn3li at gmail.com


From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 00:13:52 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 00:13:52 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
Message-ID: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>

Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet decision. Private email is 100 percent against it. 


So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?

It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with few options.

But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear in mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.

Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets are a task too far.

It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. The downside is that the party would change radically. 

How about some conversation? Keep it civil.

- Mike - 



From tvguy07 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 06:36:14 2015
From: tvguy07 at gmail.com (John Myers)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:36:14 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>

Mike,

I fail to see the big problem with sending in a summary sheet. In my
opinion, your argument for them is valid .

It took me all of 15 minutes to fill out and mail my summary sheet
yesterday. The fill in and print format is awesome.

If I read your previous e-mail correctly, the submittal of a summary sheet
will be voluntary, with a 300pt bonus for those who choose to submit one.

My apologies if I've misread something here.

 73,

John, KD8MQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Michael Coslo <mjcn3li at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet
> decision. Private email is 100 percent against it.
>
>
> So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too
> difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and
> go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?
>
> It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with few
> options.
>
> But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear in
> mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in something like
> N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on File/Export/Print
> Summary to File, and you?re done.
>
> Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not
> even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally
> negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets
> are a task too far.
>
> It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. The
> downside is that the party would change radically.
>
> How about some conversation? Keep it civil.
>
> - Mike -
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> PaQSO mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to tvguy07 at gmail.com

From peteralbright1 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 06:56:05 2015
From: peteralbright1 at gmail.com (Peter Albright)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:56:05 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
	<CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000b01d11bae$c7fe8260$57fb8720$@gmail.com>

Hi Mike,
     Thanks for opening up this issue to discussion. I have earned the right to speak on the topic because I probably submitted more summary sheets (31 counties plus 1 overall = 32) than any other participant in this year's PAQP. The task was neither daunting nor onerous. 
     Mike, you are a superhero for the job you do. Whatever rules you decide on with are OK with me. When I screw up (like last year :) ), shame on me, not on you.
73,
Peter Albright, AA2AD w/ N3KZI, a.k.a. W3CG/m


-----Original Message-----
From: PaQSO [mailto:paqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Myers
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2015 6:36 AM
To: paqso <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [PaQSO] Another question

Mike,

I fail to see the big problem with sending in a summary sheet. In my opinion, your argument for them is valid .

It took me all of 15 minutes to fill out and mail my summary sheet yesterday. The fill in and print format is awesome.

If I read your previous e-mail correctly, the submittal of a summary sheet will be voluntary, with a 300pt bonus for those who choose to submit one.

My apologies if I've misread something here.

 73,

John, KD8MQ

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 12:13 AM, Michael Coslo <mjcn3li at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet 
> decision. Private email is 100 percent against it.
>
>
> So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too 
> difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries 
> altogether, and go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?
>
> It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with 
> few options.
>
> But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear 
> in mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in 
> something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on 
> File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.
>
> Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not 
> even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the 
> universally negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, 
> summary sheets are a task too far.
>
> It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. 
> The downside is that the party would change radically.
>
> How about some conversation? Keep it civil.
>
> - Mike -


PaQSO mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to peteralbright1 at gmail.com


From wn3vaw at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 07:58:15 2015
From: wn3vaw at verizon.net (Ron Notarius W3WN)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:58:15 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
Message-ID: <6681698.3365370.1447160295190.JavaMail.root@vznit170132.mailsrvcs.net>

 Submitting a summary sheet is anything but difficult.


[ Of course, it is time consuming.  That's a whole 2 minutes ( or is it 3? ) that could have been spent on something else.  /sarcasm ]


I see no reason to drop summary sheets.  As noted, many logging programs automatically provide them in some form or another.  Manually computing one isn't that difficult either -- and yes, I know that it's a touch more complicated for multi county mobiles and rovers, been there/done that.
 
I'm sure some would argue that many major domestic and international contests no longer require summary sheets.  In most if not all cases, it's because they are accepting logs via some form of Cabrillo or similar formatting, and the equivalent of the summary sheet is stored at the beginning of the electronic file; call it the log header information if you like.  


I guess I just don't see what the fuss is about.  I suspect that many of the negative comments are coming from people who don't like the idea that others get bonus points for doing something that they choose not to do, when doing so is actually such a minimal effort that there's really no good reason not to do so.


73, ron w3wn

On 11/10/15, Michael Coslo wrote:

Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet decision. Private email is 100 percent against it. 


So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?

It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with few options.

But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear in mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.

Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets are a task too far.

It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. The downside is that the party would change radically. 

How about some conversation? Keep it civil.

- Mike - 


______________________________________________________________
PaQSO mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to wn3vaw at verizon.net

From n3xls at juno.com  Tue Nov 10 09:03:01 2015
From: n3xls at juno.com (=?utf-8?B?bjN4bHNAanVuby5jb20=?=)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 09:03:01 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] =?utf-8?q?Another_question?=
Message-ID: <AABMED8JXAP9F97S@smtpout02.vgs.untd.com>

I am for the summary sheet and bonus.  Mike how many people win awards that don't submit a summary?   That could be another incentive no summary, no award.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Michael Coslo" <mjcn3li at gmail.com>
To: "paqso" <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
Date: Tue, Nov 10, 2015 12:13 AM


Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet decision. Private email is 100 percent against it. 


So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?

It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with few options.

But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear in mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.

Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets are a task too far.

It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. The downside is that the party would change radically. 

How about some conversation? Keep it civil.

- Mike - 


______________________________________________________________
PaQSO mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to n3xls at juno.com
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From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 11:39:58 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 11:39:58 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
	<CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0872B3BE-C446-4B11-BAE7-25F15D064898@gmail.com>


> On Nov 10, 2015, at 6:36 AM, John Myers <tvguy07 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If I read your previous e-mail correctly, the submittal of a summary sheet
> will be voluntary, with a 300pt bonus for those who choose to submit one.

Absolutely voluntary. Look at it like in school, when the teacher has a raft of tests that come in with no name on them. This happens all the time. So she tells the kids that they will get 10 points just for putting their name on the paper.

I?ve been doing the party for ten years now, and usually about half the entrants don?t send summary sheets. Been a lot more this year.  Some of the logs don?t even have a Cabrillo header, just a callsign. So I spend a lot of time on QRZ looking up callsigns and names and addresses. So obviously not having a summary sheet doesn?t DQ a person.

So it?s pretty simple. If a person has a big issue with submitting a summary, which in many programs is a mouse click away, then they are under no obligation to do so. 

Most of the time people like bonus points.

However - complaints if they lose a county or section or plaque for want of the summary points?

That?s on them.

- Mike -





From no3m at no3m.net  Tue Nov 10 12:03:23 2015
From: no3m at no3m.net (Eric NO3M)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 12:03:23 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <0872B3BE-C446-4B11-BAE7-25F15D064898@gmail.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
	<CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0872B3BE-C446-4B11-BAE7-25F15D064898@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5642235B.3090502@no3m.net>

I do not think bonus points should be rewarded for something that is not 
part of the "operating" activity of the contest (yes, I know some don't 
call it a contest, but as long as there are awards, scores, records, 
et.al., it's a contest), but merely administrative.  A 300 pt bonus is 
also hardly enticing for serious entries.

An alternative would be to make all logs not accompanied by a summary 
sheet a checklog.  Drastic, maybe, but if the "contest" committee wants 
to stand by a position, draw a hard line.

The ultimate goal should really be to eliminate the summary sheets. 
Reach out to N6TR and get his feedback on what would be required to 
fully automate the log checking / score calculation / et.al. process.  
Tree's been involved in log checking for a long time and for some pretty 
major contests.  He might have something already coded that just needs 
tweaked for the PAQP rules.... or maybe the PAQP rules might have to 
change slightly...

73 Eric NO3M


On 11/10/2015 11:39 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
>> On Nov 10, 2015, at 6:36 AM, John Myers <tvguy07 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> If I read your previous e-mail correctly, the submittal of a summary sheet
>> will be voluntary, with a 300pt bonus for those who choose to submit one.
> Absolutely voluntary. Look at it like in school, when the teacher has a raft of tests that come in with no name on them. This happens all the time. So she tells the kids that they will get 10 points just for putting their name on the paper.
>
> I?ve been doing the party for ten years now, and usually about half the entrants don?t send summary sheets. Been a lot more this year.  Some of the logs don?t even have a Cabrillo header, just a callsign. So I spend a lot of time on QRZ looking up callsigns and names and addresses. So obviously not having a summary sheet doesn?t DQ a person.
>
> So it?s pretty simple. If a person has a big issue with submitting a summary, which in many programs is a mouse click away, then they are under no obligation to do so.
>
> Most of the time people like bonus points.
>
> However - complaints if they lose a county or section or plaque for want of the summary points?
>
> That?s on them.
>
> - Mike -
>
>
>


From na2x at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 10 12:45:13 2015
From: na2x at yahoo.com (na2x at yahoo.com)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 17:45:13 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
References: <364506433.2245897.1447177513419.JavaMail.yahoo.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <364506433.2245897.1447177513419.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

Why not provide a web page on the Pa QSO Party sitelike the one the CaliforniaQSO Party uses??Cabrillo logs can be uploaded and additionalinformation (like the information on your summary sheet) is entered and wouldbe collected for your purposes.

From tvguy07 at gmail.com  Tue Nov 10 13:06:04 2015
From: tvguy07 at gmail.com (John Myers)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 13:06:04 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <5642235B.3090502@no3m.net>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
	<CAJ9pbr=GO-PTbcgp5beTfZZzCb0pzT1t18frEGOp8+GjD9KbYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<0872B3BE-C446-4B11-BAE7-25F15D064898@gmail.com>
	<5642235B.3090502@no3m.net>
Message-ID: <229B7E13-2F9F-446B-9C82-2DC03F08C7D6@gmail.com>

Eric,

With all due respect, there is a precedent for this. Look at the ARRL Field Day rules. They give bonus points for filing online. That's bonus points for a non-operating activity. 

John, KD8MQ

> On Nov 10, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Eric NO3M <no3m at no3m.net> wrote:
> 
> I do not think bonus points should be rewarded for something that is not part of the "operating" activity of the contest (yes, I know some don't call it a contest, but as long as there are awards, scores, records, et.al., it's a contest), but merely administrative.  A 300 pt bonus is also hardly enticing for serious entries.
> 
> An alternative would be to make all logs not accompanied by a summary sheet a checklog.  Drastic, maybe, but if the "contest" committee wants to stand by a position, draw a hard line.
> 
> The ultimate goal should really be to eliminate the summary sheets. Reach out to N6TR and get his feedback on what would be required to fully automate the log checking / score calculation / et.al. process.  Tree's been involved in log checking for a long time and for some pretty major contests.  He might have something already coded that just needs tweaked for the PAQP rules.... or maybe the PAQP rules might have to change slightly...
> 
> 73 Eric NO3M
> 
> 
> On 11/10/2015 11:39 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
>>> On Nov 10, 2015, at 6:36 AM, John Myers <tvguy07 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If I read your previous e-mail correctly, the submittal of a summary sheet
>>> will be voluntary, with a 300pt bonus for those who choose to submit one.
>> Absolutely voluntary. Look at it like in school, when the teacher has a raft of tests that come in with no name on them. This happens all the time. So she tells the kids that they will get 10 points just for putting their name on the paper.
>> 
>> I?ve been doing the party for ten years now, and usually about half the entrants don?t send summary sheets. Been a lot more this year.  Some of the logs don?t even have a Cabrillo header, just a callsign. So I spend a lot of time on QRZ looking up callsigns and names and addresses. So obviously not having a summary sheet doesn?t DQ a person.
>> 
>> So it?s pretty simple. If a person has a big issue with submitting a summary, which in many programs is a mouse click away, then they are under no obligation to do so.
>> 
>> Most of the time people like bonus points.
>> 
>> However - complaints if they lose a county or section or plaque for want of the summary points?
>> 
>> That?s on them.
>> 
>> - Mike -
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
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From numbnutz33 at verizon.net  Tue Nov 10 13:27:24 2015
From: numbnutz33 at verizon.net (Steve Forst)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 13:27:24 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5642370C.80602@verizon.net>

As a blind operator, I have to admit I don't find the summary sheet such 
a big deal.   The first time I needed to do it without sighted help 
(2010), our friend  Glen K3PP was kind enough to help me out.   After 
that I learned  that the  summary sheet generated by Writelog was 
acceptable.   It does need a little tweaking in notepad in conjunction 
with my screen reading software, and takes a whole 10 minutes out of my 
life.

I did find the web based submission for the South Carolina QP pretty 
slick this year.   On the other hand, the one for Ohio was  a bit more 
problematic for me.

Whatever you decide, someone will be unhappy, but however it goes,  I 
plan to be plugging away next October.

Thanks for doing a thankless job.

Steve KW3A


On 11/10/2015 12:13 AM, Michael Coslo wrote:
> Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet decision. Private email is 100 percent against it.
>
>
> So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?
>
> It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with few options.
>
> But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear in mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.
>
> Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets are a task too far.
>
> It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. The downside is that the party would change radically.
>
> How about some conversation? Keep it civil.
>
> - Mike -
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> PaQSO mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>

From n3cr at yahoo.com  Wed Nov 11 08:56:08 2015
From: n3cr at yahoo.com (n3cr at yahoo.com)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 08:56:08 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Bonus points
Message-ID: <u2g1a1910e4oi80uef1dp4hu.1447250168550@email.android.com>



n3cr at yahoo.com wrote:

>Greetings All,,,,300 points will not make or break a contest.  Summary makes checking easier.  After contest i had to edit mine to add the bonus station points due to an older program,  10 minutes tops.   The SOLP op would jump at the 300 points.   The ultimate would be eliminate them but for now award those who send them in voluntarily.   I understand  it is a problem for rover and mobiles but let's work with it.  PAQP is a great contest and i enjoy being able to be part of it all these years.  Many thanks to all who make it  happen!!   Waiting to see if my 67 counties stands!!  A real surprise after missing 3 rare catches Saturday.   Great to work THE GRUMP and everyone again.  Next year gotta be better but this makes better operators of everyone.  Pop in a fresh piece of gum and move on to the next one!!!!   73s de Larry N3CR  carbon county  SOLP
>

From n2cu at roadrunner.com  Thu Nov 12 18:22:45 2015
From: n2cu at roadrunner.com (Tom Williams)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2015 18:22:45 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] FW: Re:  Scoring announcement
Message-ID: <4450198F8B074E4AA0418A0B1183A39B@696908E74163425>

Summary sheets have never been a problem for me. The simple fact that most
(all?) logging programs can generate one with a click of the mouse and that
Mike will accept EMAIL submissions makes it a no-brainer. What was a slight
irritant was having to SNAIL MAIL a dozen summary sheets (for mobiles). But
for what Mike gets paid for doing this, the least we can do is help him out
by making it a little easier. 

 

As far as bonus points for submitting a summary sheet, I don't think it's
necessary. Just make it a requirement in the rules. If you don't submit the
required documentation, you are a check log or are ineligible for awards.
Sure, some guys may be offended, but it's not too much to ask (once again)
to make it easier for Mike to score the contest and get results out in a
timely fashion.

 

 

73,

Tom N2CU <><

K3 #3582


From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Sat Nov 28 17:58:08 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Sat, 28 Nov 2015 17:58:08 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Preliminary scores posted
Message-ID: <05D74890-C8B2-4BBE-B7FD-FB7ADD55C879@gmail.com>

The preliminary scores have been posted at http://nittany-arc.net/PAQSO.html



From mjcn3li at gmail.com  Mon Nov 30 17:36:19 2015
From: mjcn3li at gmail.com (Michael Coslo)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:36:19 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Preliminary scores update
Message-ID: <3D984EE9-1244-4CE4-9A03-58EB07E1D241@gmail.com>

The preliminary scores were updated this evening at 1735 hours

Mike

From dave at pkministrywebs.com  Mon Nov 30 17:50:36 2015
From: dave at pkministrywebs.com (Dave Edmonds)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 17:50:36 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Preliminary scores update
In-Reply-To: <3D984EE9-1244-4CE4-9A03-58EB07E1D241@gmail.com>
References: <3D984EE9-1244-4CE4-9A03-58EB07E1D241@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHQrxhKNVw01kfLkpHe8Eo4h1H6GF4Yp5yqLFXZF06_feCwfgg@mail.gmail.com>

FYI... The South Carolina QP results are now available on scqso.com

73s Dave WN4AFP
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On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Michael Coslo <mjcn3li at gmail.com> wrote:

> The preliminary scores were updated this evening at 1735 hours
>
> Mike
> ______________________________________________________________
> PaQSO mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
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>
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From k3yd at aol.com  Mon Nov 30 20:04:27 2015
From: k3yd at aol.com (K3YD)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 20:04:27 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1515b11bb98-733e-fd50@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com>

Perhaps I'm too much of a "numbers wonk", but I cannot imagine making even a casual effort in a contest without asking "How did I do?"  That's what a summary sheet tells me.  

As for the hard working Log Scorers and Results Compilers, why wouldn't we give them a little information to organize contest results?  Again . . . a Summary Sheet serves that function.
 
Does IRS allow you to file your taxes without including a Form 1040?  Does your employer provide reimbursement for business trip expenses without an expense summary?  Does your radio club treasurer just say "We've got some money in the bank" or does she provide an income/expense report?  All of these are "Summary Sheets".

Mike, I say hold your position.  Anyone who doesn't submit a Summary Sheet should be listed as only providing a Check Log, and not as a competitor.  If it is too much bother to spend 30 seconds completing a summary sheet with logging software, why waste time participating?

73,  Blair  K3YD

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Coslo <mjcn3li at gmail.com>
To: paqso <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2015 12:14 am
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question

Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet decision. Private email is 100 percent against it. So here?s a question I?d like to float. If submitting a summary is too difficult, would people prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and go to something like the KJ4IZW contest scorer?It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been backed into a corner with few options.But seriously, I catch so much flak about the summary sheets, and bear in mind that you don?t have to use the ones I provide, but in something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine summary you click on File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.Its kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not even turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets are a task too far.It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s the upside. The downside is that the party would change radically. How about some conversation? Keep it civil.- Mike - ______________________________________________________________PaQSO mailing listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqsoHelp: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.netThis list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to k3yd at aol.com

From dave at pkministrywebs.com  Mon Nov 30 22:28:23 2015
From: dave at pkministrywebs.com (Dave Edmonds)
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2015 22:28:23 -0500
Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
In-Reply-To: <1515b11bb98-733e-fd50@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com>
References: <697F9D09-7CC6-4F87-B2F0-297EB852A29C@gmail.com>
	<1515b11bb98-733e-fd50@webprd-a43.mail.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAHQrxhJ_JhmiSsqvVx=NL+etY_yK9Zg0iuApApQEpbEGeMj9Cg@mail.gmail.com>

HI Blair, Mike and all the PAQPers...

I created and implemented a new summary sheet - log submission system that
worked very well..We changed our rules and scoring etc for the 2015 SCQP,
so I knew that it was going to be challenging... The summary sheet was a
MUST because I knew that we would have log formatting and scoring issues...
and we did... I implemented the summary sheet because I wanted to have a
solid back-up in case we experienced sw problems with scoring, which I had
no clue at the time exactly how that was going to be handled.

You can visit http://scqso.com/log-submission/ to see how it works.

At then end of the contest, I had all the logs and summary sheet data in
ONE Excel spreadsheet... The my lifesaver KJ4IZW walked me through how to
use his software. We scored the logs and manually reviewed all logs and
completed this process in 5 weeks.

If the scoring sw would not have been available or didn't work as designed,
we would have been able to score the logs thanks to the Summary Form data..
Doing it manually with only Cabrillo log files would have been a nightmare.

All the best!

Dave WN4AFP



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On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 8:04 PM, K3YD via PaQSO <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
wrote:

> Perhaps I'm too much of a "numbers wonk", but I cannot imagine making even
> a casual effort in a contest without asking "How did I do?"  That's what a
> summary sheet tells me.
>
> As for the hard working Log Scorers and Results Compilers, why wouldn't we
> give them a little information to organize contest results?  Again . . . a
> Summary Sheet serves that function.
>
> Does IRS allow you to file your taxes without including a Form 1040?  Does
> your employer provide reimbursement for business trip expenses without an
> expense summary?  Does your radio club treasurer just say "We've got some
> money in the bank" or does she provide an income/expense report?  All of
> these are "Summary Sheets".
>
> Mike, I say hold your position.  Anyone who doesn't submit a Summary Sheet
> should be listed as only providing a Check Log, and not as a competitor.
> If it is too much bother to spend 30 seconds completing a summary sheet
> with logging software, why waste time participating?
>
> 73,  Blair  K3YD
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael Coslo <mjcn3li at gmail.com>
> To: paqso <paqso at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2015 12:14 am
> Subject: [PaQSO] Another question
>
> Well, as expected, some folks are not happy with my summary sheet
> decision. Private email is 100 percent against it. So here?s a question I?d
> like to float. If submitting a summary is too difficult, would people
> prefer is I did away with summaries altogether, and go to something like
> the KJ4IZW contest scorer?It?s sort of a radical change, but I?ve been
> backed into a corner with few options.But seriously, I catch so much flak
> about the summary sheets, and bear in mind that you don?t have to use the
> ones I provide, but in something like N1MM logger, which produces a fine
> summary you click on File/Export/Print Summary to File, and you?re done.Its
> kind of foreign to me, because that?s only one click away from not even
> turning in a log, but the summaries not received and the universally
> negative comments I?ve gotten indicates that easy or not, summary sheets
> are a task too far.It would be quick and easy for you, and myself - that?s
> the upside. The downside is that the party would change radically. How
> about some conversation? Keep it civil.- Mike -
> ______________________________________________________________PaQSO mailing
> listHome: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqsoHelp:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htmPost: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.netThis
> list hosted by: http://www.qsl.netPlease help support this email list:
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.htmlMessage delivered to k3yd at aol.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> PaQSO mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/paqso
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:PaQSO at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to dave at pkministrywebs.com




-- 
Dave Edmonds
PK Ministry Webs
864.288.6678
dave at pkministrywebs.com
www.pkministrywebs.com
"Webs from the Heart"