[NLRS] Fwd: Re: 10G test Cabrillo question

Tue Aug 20 15:37:37 EDT 2019

In previous years the Cabrillo documentation for VHF/UHF and HF contests 
had no provision for indication of on/off times. The documentation said 
the analysis software would figure the gaps between contacts as off time.

For last Saturday I made all the contacts from each rover stop in mostly 
two minutes. Then I had sat at the rover stop a total nearly 30 minutes 
and drove nearly 30 minutes to another rover stop. Seems to me that 
while Cabrillo from the log would show about 20 minutes operating time 
all day, that I was active all the time at each rover stop save for 
unloading and loading and that traveling to a new location was operating 
time even if the rig was turned off. When roving, gotta move to allow 
more contacts with the same fixed group.

To make Cabrillo logs I have downloaded a Cabrillo sample and several 
years ago used it as the pattern for my new log. I used an antique text 
program Wordstar set to replace, not insert characters and typed over 
the samples for each line. Then copied a line for each new line beyond 
the lines of the sample. Since then I have used the most recent Cabrillo 
submission as the pattern for my next log. I don't know if Office or 
Open Office can be set to replace, not insert new characters but that's 
what I would try if I couldn't use OS/2 and Wordstar. There ought to be 
a 10G+ Cabrillo sample somewhere at www.arrl.org

73, Jerry, K0CQ

On 8/20/2019 12:20 PM, Gary2 wrote:
> It looks like some of you weren't paying attention before the first
> weekend. John, K9JK, and I had a good discussion on the subject. Most of
> it was on the reflectors.
>
> The basic answer is that, right now, the best answer seem to be do what
> John writes about below. John was going to  contact the Contest Manager
> to find out how they wanted to handle on/off time in the Cabrillo
> format. It may have been changed by now.
>
> I have tried entering my log from a spread sheet that is organized in
> the correct format using the WA7BNM's Web applet. I was able to cut and
> paste the contact info, but didn't try on/off times. This was a couple
> of weeks ago, so it's worth trying again.
>
> I will have another look at the ARRL contest site to see if anything has
> changed.
>
> 73,Gary WBØLJC
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> Subject: Re: 10G test Cabrillo question
> Date: Wed, 7 Aug 2019 21:45:39 -0500
> From: Gary2 <wb0ljc at comcast.net>
> To: John Kalenowsky <hamk9jk at gmail.com>
>
>
> Hi John,
>
> My comments are at the bottom.
>
> Gary WBØLJC
>
> On 8/7/2019 2:14 PM, John Kalenowsky wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 7, 2019 at 1:32 PM Gary2 posed the following query:
>
>> For the 10 G Cumulative, how do you handle On/Off times if the
>> Cabrillo format?
>>
>>
>> 73, Gary WBØLJC
>>
>> Good question, Gary.
>>
>> Since the 10 G rules (in #2) do specifically state "Times off must be
>> clearly indicated in the log."
>>
>> There IS a tag named "OFFTIME:" in the Cabrillo spec. (pasted below
>> from http://wwrof.org/cabrillo/cabrillo-specification-v3/ ):
>>
>> *OFFTIME:* /begin-time/ /end-time/
>>
>> This tag is used to indicate off-time.
>>
>> OFFTIME: 2002-03-22 0300 2002-03-22 0743
>>
>> yyyy-mm-dd nnnn yyyy-mm-dd nnnn
>>
>> -----begin----- ------end------
>>
>> /Note: About on-time and off-time:/
>>
>> QSOs in Cabrillo are logged with a granularity of one minute. The
>> use of one second granularity would lead to the question “during
>> which exact second did the QSO take place?”
>>
>> The ARRL has taken the very sensible interpretation that on-time
>> and off-time also should be considered with a granularity of one
>> minute. In other words, during any given minute you can either be
>> on or off. Therefore 1801Z-1830Z would be a 30 minute off-time,
>> with 1800Z being your last minute on before the break and 1831Z
>> being the minute you resume operation.
>>
>> If you make a QSO at 1800Z, take a break, and resume operating at
>> 1830Z, then you have completed a 29 minute off-time.
>>
>> (Apologies that it did not 'paste' as cleanly above as it appears on
>> the web page for the spec.)
>>
>> BUT... I think that the OFFTIME: tag has fallen out of use...letting
>> the log checking software verify total operating time (which, for the
>> ARRL Sweepstakes is mentioned in the rule set as follows: "In
>> electronically-submitted Cabrillo logs, off-times are calculated by
>> the log-checking software.")
>>
>> As well, that may be a carryover from HF rule provisions...there is NO
>> mention of minimum offtime in the 10 G rules as there is in many of
>> the operating time limited HF Contests (from ARRL Sweepstakes rules
>> again "Off periods may not be less than 30 minutes in length.")
>>
>> I suspect that WA7BNM's Web to Cabrillo form doesn't support that, so
>> it would be necessary to put any offtime's in manually if you used
>> that to enter your log data.
>>
>> Might it be time for the wording in Rule #2 for the 10 G test to be
>> reconsidered? Does/has anyone ever even come CLOSE to 24 hours (let
>> alone exceeding 24 hours) of operating time amongst the 36 total hours
>> allowed by the two 18 hour windows, 6 a.m. local to Midnight local on
>> the two days, in a given weekend?
>>
>> 73, JK
>>
>
> As a rover I can get close to the 24 hour limit if I don't include off
> times. It's not uncommon for me to start the day at 7 AM and end the
> first day at 7 PM. Operating time on Sunday can be even longer 7 AM
> start and 10 PM stop if I am going to get close to home and make a
> couple of contacts in the evening with KØAWU and other locals. I may
> spend a three hours driving to get close enough to work AWU and the
> others. There was a time years ago when Bruce and I tried with K2YAZ at
> about 10:45 PM our time. We needed try with him before 11 PM, 12 PM his
> time. Then we worked N4PZ and W9ZIH. We didn't finish until after 11 PM.
>
> I keep track of the On/Off times starting when I turn the rig on at a
> rover site and ending when everyone has finished their Q's and are
> getting ready to leave. I often run 11 or 12 hours of On time that way
> during a weekend. Without an Off time I could hit the 24 hour limit. As
> a rover Off time is the time it takes to travel between sites. It can be
> 20 minutes, typical if we know where we are going, to an hour or more if
> we can't find a good site. As far as On time there can be the case where
> others are working the fixed group before me, but I have my rig on and
> may have been beaconing and listening before my first Q. That counts as
> operating time.
>
> The contest time is continuous from 6AM Saturday to Midnight Sunday--40
> hours total. I don't know who would be operating between local midnight
> and 6AM unless they were doing moon bounce.
>
> 73, Gary WBØLJC
>
>
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