[NLRS] Is there published data on tree foliage ...

[Chris Elmquist]

On Thursday (07/10/2014 at 11:10AM -0500), Paul Husby wrote:
> 
> Chris, I'm glad to hear that you have trouble too.  I'm only 4.5
> miles from the towers and also have a view of them in winter.  I
> just don't understand why I can't get enough signal sometimes.  It
> hasn't always seemed to correlate with wet/dry conditions, but now
> that I know it isn't just me, I will pay closer attention.

I have stood down on the issue recently but this dicussion will probably
light a fire here to dig in again.

I am not sure if my problem is attentuation or multi-path.  I have
multiple different receivers (TVs, USB tuners, ethernet connected tuners)
and each are affected differently.

> Ch4 always seems solid, Ch5 much more of a problem, as is Ch9 also.
> I have wondered if it is significant that Ch4 has no subchannels,
> while Ch5 has many?

CH5's subchannels are the ones I have the most trouble with.  CH5s
broadcasts are on 599 and 659 MHz.  KSTP-DT1 and -DT2 are on 599 MHz
while -3, -4 are on 659.  I usually do not have issue with the stuff
on 599 MHz.

I also have little trouble with any of the KTCA stuff, which
is on 527, 563 and 593 MHz or KMSP on 189 MHz or KARE on 201 MHz.

Some trouble here with WCCO, which is on 581 MHz.  Go figure.

So, not surprisingly, I think my trouble is a function of both frequency
and transmitter power level.  The KSTPDT-3, -4 are lower power signals
from the old channel 45 analog transmitter.

Chris N0JCF

> On 7/10/2014 10:53 AM, Chris Elmquist wrote:
> >
> >On Thursday (07/10/2014 at 10:19AM -0500), Donn, WA2VOI wrote:
> >>No, the report doen't state "condition" of the foliage.  From
> >>contest, however, I assume it refers to "dry" foliage.  The report
> >>treats each source of loss seperately: i.e., atmospheric, water
> >>vapor, rain, scattering, etc.  (The report is aimed at mm wavelength
> >>propagation.  The foliage loss equation just happens to cover down
> >>to 200MHz.)
> >Got it.  Thanks.
> >
> >>FWIW, I agree with you completely re: rain-covered foliage and TV
> >>signals.  My "look" at the Shoreview towers is blocked by a hill and
> >>I suffer badly from multi-path.  Dry conditions are... OK, but
> >>during and after rain, no so much.
> >Pretty much the same experience here.  I used to be able to get a shock
> >off the coax when we had the analog TV transmitters running (well, OK,
> >not quite but it was a HUGE signal).   Now, I loose lock and go all
> >pixelated on KSTP and WCCO when it rains.  I am 7.5 mi from Shoreview
> >with no hills blocking, just trees.  I can see the aircraft beacon lights
> >on the towers from my roof when the leaves are not out.
> >
> >>PS The FCC report is readily available on the Internet.  (Where I
> >>got it originally.)  Don't rememebr exactly, but 'FCC OET Bulletin
> >>70' in a search engine should find it.
> >OK. Thanks Donn.
> >
> >Chris N0JCF

-- 
Chris Elmquist