[NLRS] RE: [Mw] RE:10GHz liaison Cell Phones

Thu, 29 Aug 2002 21:47:10 +0100

And THAT is the problem!  

The RULES say one thing, and those who are supposed to enforce the rules
say something different.

How do I know that Dan has said that ?  Because you said so ?  I don't
think so! (Nothing personal, John.  I know he has... I've seen the e-mails
since this started.  Man! Talk about learning the hard way to keep your
mouth shut!)  But, if its not in the rules, I DON'T know.  I have to have
been part of the "group" that DOES know.

The MINIMUM that has to happen to get things back where the rules are (at
least consistent, and hopefully) fair, is to change the 10GHz and up
Contest rules similar to this:

5.1 Scheduling of contacts is both permissable and encouraged.  ANY MEANS
AVAILABLE TO SCHEDULE CONTACTS MAY BE USED.

Section 7 does not need modification as there are no REQUIREMENTS in it...
it's all worded as suggestions.  And it seems to work OK.

Such a change to 5.1 would allow telephone, Internet, repeaters, digi's,
(and as someone sent to me earlier, smoke signals) what-ever.  If that's
the INTENT of the rules, then MAKE THEM SAY THAT.  Don't depend on informal
communications which are NOT AVAILABLE to most would-be participants.

(I don't mean to propose that specific wording... but it doesn't seem to be
that bad.)

Propagation must be really poor... we're all wasting time and energy that
would be better spent on operating, building, or getting equipment ready
for the 2nd weekend of the 10GHz Contest... like I need to do.

73 Donn
WA2VOI/0

At 15:57 29-08-02 -0400, John Allen wrote:
>==>> Cell phones ARE allowed in the 10GHz and up contest. <<==
>
>The source for my information was ARRL Contest Branch Manager Dan
Henderson, N1ND.
>
>John Allen K1AE
>[email protected]
>978 779-6189
> 
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
>> Behalf Of Russ Pillsbury
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 9:53 PM
>> To: Donn Baker; John Allen; [email protected]
>> Cc: [email protected]
>> Subject: RE: [Mw] RE:10GHz liaison (LONG)
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Don. Maybe I got it wrong, but I thought those rules were relaxed for
the
>> 10 Ghz contest.  I don't have time right now to try to find the info, maybe
>> someone else knows...
>> 
>> Also, It seems that finding out where a station is, so you can point your 2
>> meter beam at him to make a sked should be able to be done via any means.
>> Since you are not really exchanging contact information, or even sked
>> information, what is wrong with looking at a list of stations and where
they
>> currently are, so you can figure out where to point?
>> 
>> Now before everyone starts jumping up and down, I am not talking about VHF
>> contests, just the 10 Ghz and up cumulative, and day to day rover
operations
>> (non contest).
>> 
>> Using APRS to keep track of the rovers is in no way part of actually making
>> the QSO.  And the current situation with regards to 10 Ghz rovers is such
>> that any real distance attempts are haphazard at best.  When I was
operating
>> in FN02, even with a KW and a beam on a mountain top. it was almost
>> impossible to attract the attention of the New England mountain toppers
on 2
>> meters because they all point at each other and they all have small
>> antennas.  That is great for them, but discourages everyone out of the
area.
>> If the rules won't allow some better form of liaison communication during
>> the contest then maybe the rules need to be changed.  Rules are there for
>> fairness, but when they start impeding the ability of stations to
>> participate reasonably then something needs to be done.
>> 
>> 73, Russ K2TXB
>> 
>> 
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
>> > Behalf Of Donn Baker
>> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:20 PM
>> > To: John Allen; [email protected]
>> > Cc: [email protected]
>> > Subject: [Mw] RE:10GHz liaison (LONG)
>> >
>> >
>> > >Speaking of liason,
>> > >
>> > >==>> Why not use cell phones (assumeing coverage)?  <<==
>> > >
>> > >It is allowed during the 10G and up contest.
>> > >
>> >
>> > NO, it isn't.
>> >
>> > I've been on vacation, and getting caught up (and reading this thread)
has
>> > been interesting.  There've been a bunch of good ideas passed
>> > around.  And,
>> > I'm afraid, a couple of stinkers.
>> >
>> > Hasn't anyone bothered to READ THE RULES ?
>> >
>> > Quoting from from the ARRL web pages, here are some rules that need to be
>> > understood.
>> >
>> > FROM: General Rules for All ARRL Contests:
>> > 1.1 Rules for individual contests or events, including Field Day, take
>> > precedence over all General Rules.
>> >
>> > 1.2 General Rules for HF and VHF contests take precedence over General
>> > Rules for all contests.
>> >
>> > 3.9 Contacts made through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways are not
>> > permitted.
>> >
>> > 3.9.1 This applies to all forms of active relays or repeaters.
>> >
>> > 3.10 The use of non-Amateur Radio means of communication (for example,
>> > Internet or telephone) to solicit a contact (or contacts) during the
>> > contest period is not permitted.
>> >
>> > FROM: General Rules for ARRL Contest on Bands Above 50 MHz.
>> > 1.7 Retransmitting either or both stations, or use of repeater
>> > frequencies,
>> > is not permitted.
>> >
>> > 1.7.1 This prohibits the use of all repeater frequencies.
>> >
>> > 1.7.2 Contest entrants may not transmit on repeaters or repeater
>> > frequencies for the purpose of soliciting contacts.
>> >
>> > FROM: 2002 ARRL 10GHz and Up Cumulative Contest Rules.
>> > 5.1 Scheduling contacts is both permissible and encouraged.
>> >
>> > 7.1 Schedules may be set up by use of the HF calling frequency of 3818
kHz
>> > on the evenings of Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday before the contest
>> > weekends starting at 7PM local.  Also, 144.230 and 146.55 MHz can be
>> > monitored during the contest to arrange schedules with other stations.
>> > Paired stations shouild move off these frequencies once contact
>> > has been made.
>> >
>> > 10.Other: See "General Rules for All ARRL Contests" and "Rules for ARRL
>> > Contests above 50 MHz" in November 2000 QST or at www.arrl.org/contests
>> >
>> >
>> > There isn't a lot of wiggle-room here, is there ?
>> >
>> > NO REPEATERS: (no biggie; everyone understands this one);
>> > NO TELEPHONE NOR INTERNET; (what about in the VHF contests ?  The General
>> > Rules Above 50MHz explicitly prohibit this for Single Operator class, but
>> > what about others ?  Isn't it covered in General Rules for All Contests
>> > 3.10 ?)
>> > NO DIGIPEATERS: (True, you're not making CONTACTS, but you ARE soliciting
>> > contacts through a repeater.)
>> >
>> > All this brings right back to 2m (SSB or FM), or 432, or 1296, etc., and
>> > which one's best.  Maybe we just need better PROCEDURES, not a new way.
>> >
>> > 73 Donn
>> > WA2VOI/0
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > DIGIPEATERS  (this makes the APRS proposal a problem);
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > [email protected]
>> > http://mbs.valinet.com/mailman/listinfo/microwave
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> 
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