[NJARC] NJARC Digest, Vol 172, Issue 15

Wed Aug 29 11:07:56 EDT 2018

Sorry to hear about the potential discontinuation of the NIST radio time signaling.  In 1969, I was station seismologist at SPA, South Pole 

Station in Antarctica.  On my time console was a 60 RPM synchronous motor, attached to a wheel about 4” in diameter.  Once a second, 

a neon bulb on the wheel flashed in response to the signal from WWV, to which I would sync my clock which put time marks on my seismographs.  

I had a very expensive Mercer chronometer to fill in periods of “polar cap absorption” when no radio signals reached our little outpost.  In this way,

the WWV signal co-ordinated all the seismographs in the system.  Because the continent was quiet seismically, we could run at high gain at SPA and 

it was particularly sensitive in the equatorial region.  If there was a large earthquake, it would ring an alarm throughout the base and I would send 

the arrival times to Washington.  If a teletype message was prefaced with “SEISMO,” even back then it was immediately sent on to a primitive computer 

which would calculate the potential for tidal waves and when and where they would strike.  Now, of course, there are things such as polar orbit satellites 

which could fill in the timing gap when everything else, I presume, is still over the horizon.  And every Sunday (back here) I was the voice of KC4USN. 

—The good old days.  

> On Aug 28, 2018, at 10:59 PM, njarc-request at mailman.qth.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: The end of radio time signaling? (Pete)
>   2. Re: The end of radio time signaling? (Jim Whartenby)
> 
> From: Pete <pmalvasi at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [NJARC] The end of radio time signaling?
> Date: August 28, 2018 at 8:53:34 PM EDT
> To: TrainBee <trainbee at aol.com>
> Cc: njarc at mailman.qth.net, a.b.magoun at ieee.org
> 
> 
> It’s going to be interesting justifying wwv and the others on their value for accurate time and frequency signals ...  
> 
> Aside from fully web synchronized sources what real value is the “accurate” time signals.  And frequency standard?  Most no code hams and many of those who entered the hobby in the last 15 years barely know how to use RIT and have little idea (or need) for accuracy frequency standards. Hell many non Extra class guys call out of band all the time - and some “extra” class guys call in the euro sub bands. 
> 
> I’ve been a ham for over 50 years and brought up monitoring wwv and chu etc. it would be a shame to lose them -but really - what is the rationale ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 28, 2018, at 7:41 PM, TrainBee via NJARC <njarc at mailman.qth.net <mailto:njarc at mailman.qth.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Just remember
>> Reply = Poster
>> Reply All = Everyone
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Here's the info from the ARRL site from 8/21.
>> 
>> Joe Devonshire
>> 
>> Concern Rising within Amateur Radio Community over WWV-WWVH Shut Down Proposal
>> 
>> 08/21/2018
>> ARRL members and Amateur Radio clubs are expressing increased concern over the inclusion of WWV and WWVH on a list of proposed cuts in the White House’s National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST <https://www.nist.gov/>) Fiscal Year 2019 budget request. The proposed cuts also would include the Atomic Clock signal from WWVB used to synchronize specially equipped clocks and watches. Online petitions soliciting signatures include one <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh> established by Tom Kelly II, W7NSS, of Portland, Oregon, who would like to see funding for the stations maintained. At this point, the budget item is only a proposal, not a final decision. That would be up to the Congress to decide.
>> ARRL is among those worried over the possible loss of WWV, WWVH, and WWVB and is suggesting that members of the Amateur Radio community who value the stations for their precise time and frequency signals and other information sign Kelly's petition and/or contact their members of Congress promptly, explaining how the stations are important to them, beyond government and military use.
>> Kelly’s petition, which may be signed by US residents, notes that WWV is among the oldest radio stations in the US, having been established in 1920. “The station has transmitted the official US time for nearly 100 years, and is an instrumental part in the telecommunications field, ranging from broadcasting to scientific research and education,” his petition says. “Additionally, these stations transmit marine storm warnings from the National Weather Service, GPS satellite health reports, and specific information concerning current solar activity and radio propagation conditions. These broadcasts are an essential resource to the worldwide communications industry.”
>> NIST’s full Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 budget request <http://www.osec.doc.gov/bmi/budget/FY19CBJ/NIST_and_NTIS_FY2019_President's_Budget_for_508_comp.pdf> to Congress calls for the agency to “discontinue the dissemination of the US time and frequency via the NIST radio stations in Hawaii and Fort Collins, Colorado.” The agency noted, “These radio stations transmit signals that are used to synchronize consumer electronic products like wall clocks, clock radios, and wristwatches, and may be used in other applications like appliances, cameras, and irrigation controllers.” The specific cut, which would come from the NIST Fundamental Measurement, Quantum Science, and Measurement Dissemination budget, would amount to $6.3 million.
>> In its budget request, NIST said that it plans to consolidate and focus work on its efforts in quantum science while maintaining essential core capabilities in measurement science research and measurement dissemination, as well as eliminate “efforts that have been replaced by newer technologies, measurement science research that lies outside NIST’s core mission space, and programs that can no longer be supported due to facility deterioration.”
>> WWV and WWVH broadcast time and frequency information 24/7, including time announcements, standard time intervals, standard frequencies, UT1 time corrections, a BCD time code, geophysical alerts, and marine storm warnings. Transmissions are broadcast from separate transmitters on 5, 10, 15, and 20 MHz. An experimental 25 MHz signal is also currently on the air. WWVB transmits standard Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) signals on 60 kHz to appropriately equipped timekeeping devices.
>> NIST Public Relations Director Gail Porter told Tom Witherspoon, K4SWL — editor of The SWLing Post <https://swling.com/blog/>, which has been tracking developments — that NIST “is proud of the time and frequency services we provide through our radio stations, and understands that these services are important to many people.”
>> NIST Director Walter Copan has supported the overall budget request. “This budget request ensures that NIST can continue to work at the frontiers of measurement science by preserving investment in core metrology research,” Copan said. “Through its constitutionally mandated role, NIST performs work that only the government can do, and produces enormous return on US taxpayers’ investment. Translating measurements into technically sound standards across all industries enables effective international trade and US competitiveness.”
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Magoun <a.b.magoun at ieee.org <mailto:a.b.magoun at ieee.org>>
>> To: njarc <njarc at mailman.qth.net <mailto:njarc at mailman.qth.net>>
>> Sent: Tue, Aug 28, 2018 9:29 am
>> Subject: [NJARC] The end of radio time signaling?
>> 
>> Just remember
>> Reply = Poster
>> Reply All = Everyone
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Some of you hams may already be aware of this federal budget line item and its possible consequences: https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641835302/what-closing-a-government-radio-station-would-mean-for-your-clocks <https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641835302/what-closing-a-government-radio-station-would-mean-for-your-clocks>.
>> 
>> Alex
>> ~~~
>> Alexander B. Magoun, Ph.D., Outreach Historian
>> IEEE History Center
>> Samuel C. Williams Library 3rd Floor
>> Stevens Institute of Technology
>> 1 Castle Point Terrace
>> Hoboken NJ 07030-5991
>> USA
>> 
>> +1 732-981-3414
>> a.b.magoun at ieee.org <mailto:a.b.magoun at ieee.org>
>> www.ethw.org <http://www.ethw.org/>
>> www.ieee.org/history_center <http://www.ieee.org/history_center>
>> 
>> IEEE - Advancing Technology for Humanity
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> NJARC mailing list
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> 
> 
> From: Jim Whartenby <antqradio at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [NJARC] The end of radio time signaling?
> Date: August 28, 2018 at 10:57:03 PM EDT
> To: Pete <pmalvasi at aol.com>
> Cc: "njarc at mailman.qth.net" <njarc at mailman.qth.net>
> Reply-To: Jim Whartenby <antqradio at sbcglobal.net>
> 
> 
> Pete
> You are probably right, there is no rationale worth mentioning.  Who needs WWV when you have GPS?
> 
> A Corona Mass Ejection great enough to disrupt or destroy several GPS satellites would most likely also take out the power grid as well.  So we will all go back about 200 years in time and only have the conveniences the Amish now enjoy.  All of this for at least the better part of a year while all of those pesky power transformers and high tension lines are replaced.  
> 
> Don't know how well the coal. gas and solar generators will fare but I am sure that nuclear will have problems since it is difficult to get rid of the heat in the reactor vessel as the Fukushima accident aptly demonstrated.  So the time it will take to build and launch replacement satellites seems the least of the possible problems.  LORAN C was terminated in early 2010 so I believe that there are no backup navigation systems at all unless inertial navigation systems are still being built.  Save all of your old road maps and break out all of those old pocket watches and get them serviced!
> 
> Fun times are in the future if a powerful CMA comes our way <grin>,
> Jim
>  
> I wonder why people argue over the 10% of their differences and ignore the 90% they agree on?
> 
> 
> From: Pete via NJARC <njarc at mailman.qth.net>
> To: TrainBee <trainbee at aol.com> 
> Cc: njarc at mailman.qth.net; a.b.magoun at ieee.org
> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2018 7:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [NJARC] The end of radio time signaling?
> 
> It’s going to be interesting justifying wwv and the others on their value for accurate time and frequency signals ...  
> 
> Aside from fully web synchronized sources what real value is the “accurate” time signals.  And frequency standard?  Most no code hams and many of those who entered the hobby in the last 15 years barely know how to use RIT and have little idea (or need) for accuracy frequency standards. Hell many non Extra class guys call out of band all the time - and some “extra” class guys call in the euro sub bands. 
> 
> I’ve been a ham for over 50 years and brought up monitoring wwv and chu etc. it would be a shame to lose them -but really - what is the rationale ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Aug 28, 2018, at 7:41 PM, TrainBee via NJARC <njarc at mailman.qth.net <mailto:njarc at mailman.qth.net>> wrote:
> 
>> Just remember
>> Reply = Poster
>> Reply All = Everyone
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Here's the info from the ARRL site from 8/21.
>> 
>> Joe Devonshire
>> 
>> Concern Rising within Amateur Radio Community over WWV-WWVH Shut Down Proposal
>> 
>> 08/21/2018
>> ARRL members and Amateur Radio clubs are expressing increased concern over the inclusion of WWV and WWVH on a list of proposed cuts in the White House’s National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST <https://www.nist.gov/>) Fiscal Year 2019 budget request. The proposed cuts also would include the Atomic Clock signal from WWVB used to synchronize specially equipped clocks and watches. Online petitions soliciting signatures include one <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-funding-nist-stations-wwv-wwvh> established by Tom Kelly II, W7NSS, of Portland, Oregon, who would like to see funding for the stations maintained. At this point, the budget item is only a proposal, not a final decision. That would be up to the Congress to decide.
>> ARRL is among those worried over the possible loss of WWV, WWVH, and WWVB and is suggesting that members of the Amateur Radio community who value the stations for their precise time and frequency signals and other information sign Kelly's petition and/or contact their members of Congress promptly, explaining how the stations are important to them, beyond government and military use.
>> Kelly’s petition, which may be signed by US residents, notes that WWV is among the oldest radio stations in the US, having been established in 1920. “The station has transmitted the official US time for nearly 100 years, and is an instrumental part in the telecommunications field, ranging from broadcasting to scientific research and education,” his petition says. “Additionally, these stations transmit marine storm warnings from the National Weather Service, GPS satellite health reports, and specific information concerning current solar activity and radio propagation conditions. These broadcasts are an essential resource to the worldwide communications industry.”
>> NIST’s full Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 budget request <http://www.osec.doc.gov/bmi/budget/FY19CBJ/NIST_and_NTIS_FY2019_President's_Budget_for_508_comp.pdf> to Congress calls for the agency to “discontinue the dissemination of the US time and frequency via the NIST radio stations in Hawaii and Fort Collins, Colorado.” The agency noted, “These radio stations transmit signals that are used to synchronize consumer electronic products like wall clocks, clock radios, and wristwatches, and may be used in other applications like appliances, cameras, and irrigation controllers.” The specific cut, which would come from the NIST Fundamental Measurement, Quantum Science, and Measurement Dissemination budget, would amount to $6.3 million.
>> In its budget request, NIST said that it plans to consolidate and focus work on its efforts in quantum science while maintaining essential core capabilities in measurement science research and measurement dissemination, as well as eliminate “efforts that have been replaced by newer technologies, measurement science research that lies outside NIST’s core mission space, and programs that can no longer be supported due to facility deterioration.”
>> WWV and WWVH broadcast time and frequency information 24/7, including time announcements, standard time intervals, standard frequencies, UT1 time corrections, a BCD time code, geophysical alerts, and marine storm warnings. Transmissions are broadcast from separate transmitters on 5, 10, 15, and 20 MHz. An experimental 25 MHz signal is also currently on the air. WWVB transmits standard Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) signals on 60 kHz to appropriately equipped timekeeping devices.
>> NIST Public Relations Director Gail Porter told Tom Witherspoon, K4SWL — editor of The SWLing Post <https://swling.com/blog/>, which has been tracking developments — that NIST “is proud of the time and frequency services we provide through our radio stations, and understands that these services are important to many people.”
>> NIST Director Walter Copan has supported the overall budget request. “This budget request ensures that NIST can continue to work at the frontiers of measurement science by preserving investment in core metrology research,” Copan said. “Through its constitutionally mandated role, NIST performs work that only the government can do, and produces enormous return on US taxpayers’ investment. Translating measurements into technically sound standards across all industries enables effective international trade and US competitiveness.”
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Magoun <a.b.magoun at ieee.org <mailto:a.b.magoun at ieee.org>>
>> To: njarc <njarc at mailman.qth.net <mailto:njarc at mailman.qth.net>>
>> Sent: Tue, Aug 28, 2018 9:29 am
>> Subject: [NJARC] The end of radio time signaling?
>> 
>> Just remember
>> Reply = Poster
>> Reply All = Everyone
>> 
>> _________________________________________________________
>> Some of you hams may already be aware of this federal budget line item and its possible consequences: https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641835302/what-closing-a-government-radio-station-would-mean-for-your-clocks <https://www.npr.org/2018/08/25/641835302/what-closing-a-government-radio-station-would-mean-for-your-clocks>.
>> 
>> Alex
>> ~~~
>> Alexander B. Magoun, Ph.D., Outreach Historian
>> IEEE History Center
>> Samuel C. Williams Library 3rd Floor
>> Stevens Institute of Technology
>> 1 Castle Point Terrace
>> Hoboken NJ 07030-5991
>> USA
>> 
>> +1 732-981-3414
>> a.b.magoun at ieee.org <mailto:a.b.magoun at ieee.org>
>> www.ethw.org <http://www.ethw.org/>
>> www.ieee.org/history_center <http://www.ieee.org/history_center>
>> 
>> IEEE - Advancing Technology for Humanity
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> NJARC mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/njarc <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/njarc>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>> Post: mailto:NJARC at mailman.qth.net <mailto:NJARC at mailman.qth.net?>
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>______________________________________________________________
>> NJARC mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/njarc <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/njarc>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
>> Post: mailto:NJARC at mailman.qth.net <mailto:NJARC at mailman.qth.net>
>> 
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html <http://www.qsl.net/donate.html>Just remember
> Reply = Poster
> Reply All = Everyone
> 
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> ______________________________________________________________
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> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net <http://www.qsl.net/>
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