[NJARC] Fractal Geometry for Antennas?

[pmalvasi at aol.com]

Just remember the laws of physics cannot be repealed nor have they changed.? Comprimised designs based on unique geometry are always possible, just as loading a wet clothesline with a tuner is possible and will work.? The issue is performance.?? Also, cell phone antennas are very tiny - 700 mhz being the lowest frequency and many of the newer ones operate above 2600Mhz.? The design drivers for these unusual antennas are primarily how to fit the nuisance they call an antenna into the cell phone package. Performance is seldom the primary driver. 



Recently, fone makers have been lobbying cell operators to allow them to adjust the standards to place antennas in the bottom of cell phones. This is because it's where most space is available. However, that causes a 3 - 6 db hit to the link budget. Meaning you're out of coverage a lot sooner with the new antenna design. In a dense urban area it may work because of all the cell sites, but in suburbia and beyond it will not.? 



Bottom line to this thread is these new designs will not provide any reasonable accomodation to shortwave antennas, let alone long wave ones.? You can probably make a 160 horizontal antenna a lot smaller in footprint than 1/2 wave or 1/4 wave, but it will still be very large physically.



There aint no free lunches -- especially with fundemental radio physics.

-----Original Message-----
From: NICHOLAS SENKER <ns539 at embarqmail.com>
To: Al Klase <al at ar88.net>
Cc: njarc at mailman.qth.net NJARC <njarc at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2009 1:22 pm
Subject: Re: [NJARC] Fractal Geometry for Antennas?




Just remember 
Reply = Poster
Reply All = Everyone

_________________________________________________________
Well the program is being repeated tonite (1 AM Thurs on Ch 13)  set up your 
VCR. Maybe you will be converted?
Nick

----- Original Message -----
From: Al Klase <al at ar88.net>
To: NICHOLAS SENKER <ns539 at embarqmail.com>
Cc: njarc at mailman.qth.net NJARC <njarc at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 00:31:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: [NJARC] Fractal Geometry for Antennas?

HOLY MANDELBROT, BATMAN!

Well, I'm a skeptic.  Fractals are a mathematical curiosity.  And, I 
think they fall into the category of a solution looking for a problem, 
kinda like "fuzzy logic" in the 1980's.  Of course, I'm mathematically 
challenged.

Regards,
Al

 

NICHOLAS SENKER wrote:
> Just remember 
> Reply = Poster
> Reply All = Everyone
>
> _________________________________________________________
> For Al Klase, Harry Klanser and anyone else who wants to chime in:  I was 
watching a program on PBS (NOVA - Hunting the Hidden Dimension; see PBS.org) 
about Fractal Geometry which described an antenna developed by a Radio Ham using 
fractal geometry.  He was able to reduce the size and pick up multiple 
frequencies better than conventional antennas.  His design has found widespread 
use in cellphones and other electronic equipment.
> Question:  Is there anything available like this for AM or shortwave home 
receivers?
> Nick Senker
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-- 
Al Klase - N3FRQ
Jersey City, NJ
http://www.skywaves.ar88.net/


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