[MRIC] Reasons to exist

Thu Apr 5 18:49:21 EDT 2007

All:

I am glad to see the discussion progressing. I think we might have seen 
more feedback today than we have in the past 5 weeks.

Joe and Pat, thank you for stating your position. Your feedback is much 
appreciated. I also appreciate you sharing your experience and 
operational lessons learned. I believe it contributes significantly to 
the discussion.

Ray, I suspect the reason that Al has not updated the form is that he 
either has not received any suggestions that he agrees with, or there 
have been so few jurisdictions commenting before today, that he did not 
know what suggestions were consensus yet. But to be sure, I will let Al 
respond for himself.

I PROMISE you, this is NOT a "rubber stamp" operation. As chairman, I 
will not tolerate anyone using coersion or political lobbying to get 
their way. As I stated in our first meeting, we are here to decide the 
BEST solution as a group. Whatever we decide as a group, will be 
presented to the EMs as our recommendation, subject to their approval.

Procedurally, Al made a motion at the last meeting to adopt the ICS-213 
form he presented. The motion was tabled. When it comes off the table 
at the next meeting, people can make amendments to his motion (i.e. 
changes). If he really likes the suggestion, he can incorporate it into 
his motion as a "friendly" amendment. Otherwise, anyone can make a 
motion to amend, and it will be voted on. If most of the jurisdictions 
want the change, it will be changed. Period. This is one way how 
Roberts Rules of Order ensures fairness.

If anyone wants to make an amendment to change Al's form, please let 
everyone know so they can run it by their EM to make sure they have no 
objection, so we can be prepared and know how to vote at the next 
meeting. This is why I am going to discuss Bob's format with my EM. I 
suggest holding off talking about amendments for a few days to let 
everyone provide their feedback first.

This brings me to Bob's comments below. Yes, we are to come up with a 
solution as ROs, but keep in mind that it will have to be approved by 
the EMs at the next Association meeting in May. The purpose for running 
it by the EMs, is so they aren't suprised by what we have approved, and 
do not vote it down because it violates some operational procedure they 
have for their EOC. Also, each of us has a different relationship with 
our EMs. Some defer all to us, some want to be intimately involved in 
the decision, and some fall somewhere in-between.

Where we go from here is:  We continue the discussion and try to reach 
consensus. Explain how you disagree with someone else, and why your 
solution is a better solution. I found Joe's comments about his 
experience helpful. Let's continue exchanging points of view, keeping 
to the subject at hand, and debating. This discussion has not gotten 
personal yet, but it is getting close. Let's put all our comments out 
on the reflector for everyone to see and consider, and let's not start 
down the path of talking about people off-line, or attacking their 
motives online. I think this discussion is good and if it continues, we 
will see a consensus surface before the next meeting.

Thank you all for your comments and keep them coming.

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From: rjlong61 at myactv.net
To: mric at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 4:58 PM
Subject: [MRIC] Reasons to exist

We were told the reasons why we exist were included int the following 
paragraph. If the bold portion of this charge is not supported by the 
managers, then why are the meetings being called? It appears that 
despite unanimous support this support is not present anymore. Am I 
wrong? Are we still to develop a format for the messages or are they to 
be dictated to us. I am not saying that what I proposed is what has to 
be accepted, but it was the RACES operators that objected to the format 
and felt that it caused difficulty in doing our jobs. Compromise is a 
two way street.  
The ICS-213 was developed originally to be a document transfered by 
"runners" not by voice we are told. Some of our operators seem to feel 
that it does not work well for them in a voice mode. Where do we go 
from here? 

Bob Long 

EC/RO WASH 

I am please to inform you of the creation of the Maryland RACES 
Interoperability Committee (MRIC). Last week, during the Maryland 
Emergency Management Association meeting, Ed Mullikin (Director, Talbot 
County Emergency Management), based on some recommendations from me, 
made a motion to the Association to create a committee to be made up of 
Maryland RACES Officers (ROs) to address technical issues of RACES 
interoperability such as coordinating simplex frequencies used by 
RACES, obtaining consensus on state-wide HF net frequencies,* 
standardizing the format of messages between jurisdictions*, proposing 
interoperability exercises, and resolving other technical 
interoperability issues between jurisdictions. The motion passed 
unanimously with Emergency Managers in all Maryland jurisdictions 
approving. The complete text of the motion is included at the bottom of 
this email. 

_____________________ 

I just printed the form as presented at the first meeting and printed 
the 
form that I just received from Al on 4/4/07. 

I detect no changes! So, what's the point of making suggestions? 

It's starting to look like a rubber stamp operation. 

Later, 

Ray kb3fww 

HARCO agrees completely with the Baltimore County RO on the use of the 
ICS-213. 

I think that many of us have become so used to using and seeing the 
ARRL Radiogram for so many years that it might be hard to "break with 
tradition" and move onto something else. Please remember, no one is 
doing away with the ARRL Radiogram. An additional tool is being added 
to our bag of communicators tools that allows those we serve to have a 
"more user-friendly" format for a message form. We do not create the 
messages, we simply pass them along accurately and in a timely manner. 
Remember, the ARRL Radiogram was developed for use in CW traffic 
handling and adapted to phone traffic handling by amateur radio 
operators for amateur radio operators. The ICS-213 was developed for 
use by those who create the messages, not by those who handle them.  
Please keep that in mind. 

We all must remain flexible in order to best serve those we serve! 

73, 

Pat Scolla, WB0EGR 

Harford County RO & EC 

Joe wrote: 

> BaCo is okay with the modified form as presented during the initial 
MRIC 
> meeting. 
> 
> We have been using the ICS-213 standard form with minor modifications 
(as 
> developed with Harford County in 2005) for a over 18 months. Over the 
> last 
> ten months we have used it during two county wide drills and three 
> activations with no issues. We have clocked over 1500 man hours of 
proven 
> use during exercises and activations. Our supported agencies (12) 
have > found 
> that keeping the outgoing reply on the same form as the incoming 
actually 
> improves efficiency, makes it easier for the responder to compose a 
reply 
> and for archiving. 
> 
> We tried a radiogram/ICS-213 hybrid and found that word count, fixed 
> spaces 
> and separate forms for message and reply leads to confusion. We don't 
> send 
> messages word by word we send them phrase by phrase. During one of 
our 
> county wide exercises supported agencies passed over 20 formal and 15 
> tactical messages using the modified ICS-213 format within a span of 
> forty-five minutes. Compare that to how long it takes and how few > 
messages 
> are passed on a traffic net during any given session of the same > 
duration. 
> Our personnel have used the form, it is used outside of RACES and it 
has 
> been used under fire by federal agencies since 2000. A hybrid > 
ARRL/ICS-213 
> format is not workable for BaCo. 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________ 
> This email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency > 
Managers. Only email related to the Maryland RACES Interoperabilty > 
Committee (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association > 
should be sent to this email reflector list. All emails must be in > 
plain text format (no HTML). 
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> 
> 
>  

______________________________________________________________ 
This email list is for the use of RACES Officers and Emergency 
Managers. Only email related to the Maryland RACES Interoperabilty 
Committee (MRIC) of the Maryland Emergency Management Association 
should be sent to this email reflector list. All emails must be in 
plain text format (no HTML). 
MRIC mailing list 
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/mric 
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmmain.htm 
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