[MRCA] Digital sigs on 5357 kc

Sun Nov 12 19:54:02 EST 2017

I don't understand the use on 60.  Have good enough propagation and
efficiency, use of such a slow mode is idiotic.  Most of the guys aren't
even sitting at their radio's using it, as is obvious by never hearing any
query if the frequency is in use before it fires up.   Great mode for poor
propagation or where efficiencies are an issue, like VLF and moon bounce..
But, can't expect these JT65 wizards to understand that.

Kd3ht

-----Original Message-----
From: mrca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:mrca-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On
Behalf Of Ken Downs
Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 11:06 AM
To: MkDorney at aol.com
Cc: mrca at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [MRCA] Digital sigs on 5357 kc

If I remember correctly the battle over "Which digital modes are permitted?"
began when the band went to 100 Watts, Channel 3 moved to its current freq,
and cw and digital modes were first permitted. I believe the JT65, FT8 etc
folks have claimed channel 3 because their modes are very efficient for weak
signal DX, and our Channel 3 is the only one within the 15kc splinter band
approved at WRC 15 and now used by many other countries.  As I see it, the
digital folks' main legal issue is their failure to stick to the channel
center freq and have only one signal at a time on the air within a usable
coverage area. From what I hear on the air, these ops seem to think each
channel is a 2.8 kc band they can move around in, which is not what the regs
say.
We need the Friendly Candy Company to make a decision on the WRC agreement
and publish some guidance and/or updated rules. The sooner the better.

Ken, W1KRT

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 13:15:32 -0500, Mkdorney via MRCA  wrote:

As a Primary user, perhaps JT-65 wouldn't be permitted, since the Primary
user would be government agencies, and they don't use JT-65.  The story may
change as far as a Secondary user is concerned. As long as a Secondary user
doesn't interfere with use by the Primary user ( government agency ) use is
permitted by hams. 

Mark
WW2RDO

" In matters of style, swim with the current.  In matters of principle,
stand  like a rock. ".  -   Thomas Jefferson

Sent from my iPhone 

> On Nov 12, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Peter Gottlieb  wrote:
> 
> There was a recent MARS-amateur exercise which used 60 meters and they
kept referring to those channels as the "interop" (interoperability)
channels.  My understanding of what that means is that all the 60 meter
channels are reserved for government to amateur use in support of an
emergency situation.  As MARS and other government or government related
groups do not use JT65, such use would not be permitted.
> 
> Peter kb2vtl
> 
> 
>> On 11/12/2017 11:35 AM, Robert Nickels wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2017 9:34 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
>>> Someone mentioned they installed the software and found out who the hams
were but they seem to think that is their channel and won't move.
>> 
>> Exactly right, Peter.   They have stated their believe that 5357 Khz is
"a digital frquency" and that voice operators should go elsewhere.   Not
surprisingly they could care less about our argument about radios that only
tune in 1 Khz increments (just look at the current state of amateur
technical knowledge to understand why).
>> 
>> These are  hams, but the point about Primary Users deserves
clarification.  Everyone who remembers when 60 meters was opened (which I'd
say includes virtually none of these JT-65 users) understands that we are
secondary users and are required to vacate the frequency on request from a
primary user.   If these JT-65 stations ignore amateur convention and
courtesy by starting up digital transmissions at random times without regard
for other amateur users on the channel, how would they ever respond to an
official request from a primary user?   That's the scenario that will wreck
60 meter privileges for everyone, and you'd think the ARRL which fought for
this allocation would step in and help preserve it.
>> 
>> Before I get off the soapbox, let me add that some of them do not think
they are causing harmful interference because they are using a "narrowband
mode".   And while it's true that JT-65 uses a very small frequency shift
between tones, the net impact on a voice user is a warbling continuous
carrier.   The fact that the software initiates transmissions automatically
on a time-synchronized schedule combined with the common use of excessive
power leads to malicious interference, just as if I randomly laid a brick on
my key in the middle of someone's QSO.
>> 
>> Searches show there's been considerable discussion about whether digital
modes are even legal on 60 meters, but it seems those who wanted to use them
just decided to do so, and now claim squatters rights, despite the fact that
voice and CW users were there first.   In my opinion digital modes are
incompatible with the intent of our 60 meter secondary allocation and should
be banned.
>> 
>> 73, Bob W9RAN
>> 
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