From wb6fly at verizon.net Sat Jul 5 10:20:48 2014 From: wb6fly at verizon.net (eric lemmon) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 07:20:48 -0700 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Message-ID: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net> I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY From kb0nly at mchsi.com Sat Jul 5 13:28:20 2014 From: kb0nly at mchsi.com (KB0NLY) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 12:28:20 -0500 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From wb6fly at verizon.net Sat Jul 5 16:47:30 2014 From: wb6fly at verizon.net (eric lemmon) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 13:47:30 -0700 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net> <573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> Message-ID: <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From kb0nly at mchsi.com Sat Jul 5 16:54:15 2014 From: kb0nly at mchsi.com (KB0NLY) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 15:54:15 -0500 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net><573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: Most likely big M is going to just form letter you the specs on that charger and repeat what you already know. Been there done that. Given the cost of the batteries I would just buy the RPX4747A to be safe. They run around $20-$30 on eBay, I got one off there for $29.99 brand new in the box about two months ago. Cheap investment given the cost of the batteries. Your other option would be an aftermarket NiMH charger with a pocket for the correct battery, I have a few of them from ArrowMax that have served me well and at least they can charge more then one model with a quick swap of the pockets. I built a fixture for one with three pockets and a rotary switch to select the different pockets. Looks a little hodge podge but works great for bench use. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 3:47 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From wb6fly at verizon.net Sat Jul 5 17:05:34 2014 From: wb6fly at verizon.net (eric lemmon) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:05:34 -0700 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net><573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <003b01cf9894$ddb6cc00$99246400$@verizon.net> We think alike. I do have a Battery Maintenance System Plus unit with six stations, and an adapter for HT1000 batteries- among many others. The BMS+ does "know" which chemistry is in the pocket, and reacts accordingly. However, I still want a rapid single charger that I know is safe for my NiMH battery. I will sniff around on eBay to see what is available. Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:54 PM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Most likely big M is going to just form letter you the specs on that charger and repeat what you already know. Been there done that. Given the cost of the batteries I would just buy the RPX4747A to be safe. They run around $20-$30 on eBay, I got one off there for $29.99 brand new in the box about two months ago. Cheap investment given the cost of the batteries. Your other option would be an aftermarket NiMH charger with a pocket for the correct battery, I have a few of them from ArrowMax that have served me well and at least they can charge more then one model with a quick swap of the pockets. I built a fixture for one with three pockets and a rotary switch to select the different pockets. Looks a little hodge podge but works great for bench use. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 3:47 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From tvsjr at tvsjr.com Sat Jul 5 17:11:04 2014 From: tvsjr at tvsjr.com (tvsjr at tvsjr.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 16:11:04 -0500 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <003b01cf9894$ddb6cc00$99246400$@verizon.net> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net><573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> <003b01cf9894$ddb6cc00$99246400$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002101cf9895$a23d2920$e6b77b60$@tvsjr.com> Just FYI, the BMS+ is good for NiCd and NiMH. It will support LiIon with a field upgrade kit. It should not be used on impres batteries of any type. -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 4:06 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios We think alike. I do have a Battery Maintenance System Plus unit with six stations, and an adapter for HT1000 batteries- among many others. The BMS+ does "know" which chemistry is in the pocket, and reacts accordingly. However, I still want a rapid single charger that I know is safe for my NiMH battery. I will sniff around on eBay to see what is available. Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:54 PM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Most likely big M is going to just form letter you the specs on that charger and repeat what you already know. Been there done that. Given the cost of the batteries I would just buy the RPX4747A to be safe. They run around $20-$30 on eBay, I got one off there for $29.99 brand new in the box about two months ago. Cheap investment given the cost of the batteries. Your other option would be an aftermarket NiMH charger with a pocket for the correct battery, I have a few of them from ArrowMax that have served me well and at least they can charge more then one model with a quick swap of the pockets. I built a fixture for one with three pockets and a rotary switch to select the different pockets. Looks a little hodge podge but works great for bench use. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 3:47 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From tvsjr at tvsjr.com Sat Jul 5 17:08:56 2014 From: tvsjr at tvsjr.com (tvsjr at tvsjr.com) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 16:08:56 -0500 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net> <573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <002001cf9895$55ec91f0$01c5b5d0$@tvsjr.com> The 1171s are NiCd only. Even for NiCd, they were a poorly designed charger and were prone to failures (the transformer brick going wonky and generating improper voltage was a favorite) The NTN1168, then the NTN7209, then the RPX4747 charger (all styled IntelliCharger 2) were released when the factory NiMH batteries for Jedi became available. There were aftermarket NiMH batteries for Jedi that came out before the newer chargers did... these were all poorly regarded, likely because they were charged with 1171s! These days, the right answer is to buy the WPLN4111 impres charger. This will safely charge both "dumb" and impres batteries in the NiCd, NiMH, and LiIon flavors. You can charge anything from Jedi forward to XTS5000, plus Saber, in these natively... adapters are available for APX and Visar (for KVL3000/3K+). Just make sure the firmware version is at least 3.40, preferably 3.90. Flashing these isn't hard, but it requires a special $150 box that is rather uncommon unless you find someone who has a large fleet of impres hardware to maintain. There are several up on ebay, for instance: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-IMPRES-Battery-Charger-Model-WPLN4114AR-NIB -V3-90-/321413232429?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item4ad 5b8b72d -tvs -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:48 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From wb6fly at verizon.net Sat Jul 5 17:28:28 2014 From: wb6fly at verizon.net (eric lemmon) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 14:28:28 -0700 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <002101cf9895$a23d2920$e6b77b60$@tvsjr.com> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net><573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> <003b01cf9894$ddb6cc00$99246400$@verizon.net> <002101cf9895$a23d2920$e6b77b60$@tvsjr.com> Message-ID: <003d01cf9898$1045bb10$30d13130$@verizon.net> Yes, my BMS+ has the latest firmware and it will detect what chemistry is in each pocket, including Li-Ion. -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of tvsjr at tvsjr.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 2:11 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Just FYI, the BMS+ is good for NiCd and NiMH. It will support LiIon with a field upgrade kit. It should not be used on impres batteries of any type. -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 4:06 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios We think alike. I do have a Battery Maintenance System Plus unit with six stations, and an adapter for HT1000 batteries- among many others. The BMS+ does "know" which chemistry is in the pocket, and reacts accordingly. However, I still want a rapid single charger that I know is safe for my NiMH battery. I will sniff around on eBay to see what is available. Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:54 PM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Most likely big M is going to just form letter you the specs on that charger and repeat what you already know. Been there done that. Given the cost of the batteries I would just buy the RPX4747A to be safe. They run around $20-$30 on eBay, I got one off there for $29.99 brand new in the box about two months ago. Cheap investment given the cost of the batteries. Your other option would be an aftermarket NiMH charger with a pocket for the correct battery, I have a few of them from ArrowMax that have served me well and at least they can charge more then one model with a quick swap of the pockets. I built a fixture for one with three pockets and a rotary switch to select the different pockets. Looks a little hodge podge but works great for bench use. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 3:47 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From kb0nly at mchsi.com Sat Jul 5 20:20:00 2014 From: kb0nly at mchsi.com (KB0NLY) Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2014 19:20:00 -0500 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <003b01cf9894$ddb6cc00$99246400$@verizon.net> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net><573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop><003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> <003b01cf9894$ddb6cc00$99246400$@verizon.net> Message-ID: <08558CBEF71448918091E353269DE51A@KB0NLYDesktop> I have a large, as in takes significant bench space, Telepower six station conditioner/analyzer that I use to test and charge batteries also. I have actually sat down and designed battery pockets for it and printed them on my 3d printer, used some nice pogo pins, reverse engineered the little toggle switch boards on the cups to determine the number of cells settings, etc etc. That works great and has the later firmware and does NiCD and NiMH, but I still use my other cobbled together charger more then that one despite all the work! 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 4:05 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios We think alike. I do have a Battery Maintenance System Plus unit with six stations, and an adapter for HT1000 batteries- among many others. The BMS+ does "know" which chemistry is in the pocket, and reacts accordingly. However, I still want a rapid single charger that I know is safe for my NiMH battery. I will sniff around on eBay to see what is available. Thanks! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 1:54 PM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Most likely big M is going to just form letter you the specs on that charger and repeat what you already know. Been there done that. Given the cost of the batteries I would just buy the RPX4747A to be safe. They run around $20-$30 on eBay, I got one off there for $29.99 brand new in the box about two months ago. Cheap investment given the cost of the batteries. Your other option would be an aftermarket NiMH charger with a pocket for the correct battery, I have a few of them from ArrowMax that have served me well and at least they can charge more then one model with a quick swap of the pockets. I built a fixture for one with three pockets and a rotary switch to select the different pockets. Looks a little hodge podge but works great for bench use. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 3:47 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From wb6fly at verizon.net Sat Jul 5 21:22:55 2014 From: wb6fly at verizon.net (eric lemmon) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 18:22:55 -0700 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios In-Reply-To: <002001cf9895$55ec91f0$01c5b5d0$@tvsjr.com> References: <001101cf985c$522a49b0$f67edd10$@verizon.net> <573565C5752148C681C80E72CC6F1856@KB0NLYDesktop> <003a01cf9892$577709e0$06651da0$@verizon.net> <002001cf9895$55ec91f0$01c5b5d0$@tvsjr.com> Message-ID: <004601cf98b8$d0b4d4b0$721e7e10$@verizon.net> The link you provided is no longer valid. -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of tvsjr at tvsjr.com Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 2:09 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios The 1171s are NiCd only. Even for NiCd, they were a poorly designed charger and were prone to failures (the transformer brick going wonky and generating improper voltage was a favorite) The NTN1168, then the NTN7209, then the RPX4747 charger (all styled IntelliCharger 2) were released when the factory NiMH batteries for Jedi became available. There were aftermarket NiMH batteries for Jedi that came out before the newer chargers did... these were all poorly regarded, likely because they were charged with 1171s! These days, the right answer is to buy the WPLN4111 impres charger. This will safely charge both "dumb" and impres batteries in the NiCd, NiMH, and LiIon flavors. You can charge anything from Jedi forward to XTS5000, plus Saber, in these natively... adapters are available for APX and Visar (for KVL3000/3K+). Just make sure the firmware version is at least 3.40, preferably 3.90. Flashing these isn't hard, but it requires a special $150 box that is rather uncommon unless you find someone who has a large fleet of impres hardware to maintain. There are several up on ebay, for instance: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-IMPRES-Battery-Charger-Model-WPLN4114AR-NIB -V3-90-/321413232429?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item4ad 5b8b72d -tvs -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:48 PM To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Scott, Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery chemistry is in the pocket. Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the question. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -----Original Message----- From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for one. One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or too hot and stop charging. 73, Scott KB0NLY -----Original Message----- From: eric lemmon Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in component count and layout. I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Motorola mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From tvsjr at tvsjr.com Sat Jul 5 21:32:36 2014 From: tvsjr at tvsjr.com (tvsjr at tvsjr.com) Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2014 20:32:36 -0500 Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios Message-ID: Go to eBay and search for WPLN4111. eric lemmon wrote: >The link you provided is no longer valid. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of >tvsjr at tvsjr.com >Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 2:09 PM >To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' >Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios > >The 1171s are NiCd only. Even for NiCd, they were a poorly designed charger >and were prone to failures (the transformer brick going wonky and generating >improper voltage was a favorite) > >The NTN1168, then the NTN7209, then the RPX4747 charger (all styled >IntelliCharger 2) were released when the factory NiMH batteries for Jedi >became available. There were aftermarket NiMH batteries for Jedi that came >out before the newer chargers did... these were all poorly regarded, likely >because they were charged with 1171s! > >These days, the right answer is to buy the WPLN4111 impres charger. This >will safely charge both "dumb" and impres batteries in the NiCd, NiMH, and >LiIon flavors. You can charge anything from Jedi forward to XTS5000, plus >Saber, in these natively... adapters are available for APX and Visar (for >KVL3000/3K+). Just make sure the firmware version is at least 3.40, >preferably 3.90. Flashing these isn't hard, but it requires a special $150 >box that is rather uncommon unless you find someone who has a large fleet of >impres hardware to maintain. There are several up on ebay, for instance: >http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorola-IMPRES-Battery-Charger-Model-WPLN4114AR-NIB >-V3-90-/321413232429?pt=US_Radio_Comm_Device_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item4ad >5b8b72d > >-tvs > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of eric >lemmon >Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 3:48 PM >To: 'Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola' >Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios > >Scott, > >Thanks for the response. I, too, know of folks charging NiMH batteries with >the 1171A charger, but Motorola states unequivocally that the 1171A is for >NiCd batteries only, and has been replaced by the RPX4747A for NiMH and >NiCd. The three-contact models do, in fact, monitor the temperature sensor >inside NiCd batteries. However, as Bob Meister wrote in a Repeater-Builder >article, the trip points in some such chargers must be modified to avoid >damaging a NiMH battery, unless the charger can detect which battery >chemistry is in the pocket. > >Before even experimenting with an expensive NiMH battery, I'd like to know >whether the four-contact NTN1171A is an early production version of the >RPX4747A charger that is appropriate for NiMH, or not. > >Monday morning, I will open a case on MOL to get Motorola to answer the >question. > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Motorola [mailto:motorola-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of KB0NLY >Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 10:28 AM >To: Discussion of equipment manufactured by Motorola >Subject: Re: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios > >I know of 1171A's being used to charge NiMH batteries but I don't know for >sure if its Motorola recommended. I do know that generally the ones with >four contacts are rapid chargers with the thermal sensor input that can >handle NiMH, the three contact models are just dumb slow chargers though >some of the three contact models had a circuit in them that would light an >LED and turn it green based on battery voltage or current draw to indicate >fully charged, its been a long time since I went over the schematics for >one. > >One thing I always hated about the 1171A is that when the light goes green >the battery is only about 80% charged, so most people that are in a hurry to >charge it won't ever fully charge the battery. You have to let it go green >then wait another hour or so. What I would do is put your NiMH battery in >the 1171A and closely monitor it and see if it starts getting hot, if it >does then don't use it for NiMH. The NiMH chargers really only add a >thermal sense input to let the charger know if the battery is too cold or >too hot and stop charging. > > >73, > >Scott KB0NLY > > >-----Original Message----- >From: eric lemmon >Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2014 9:20 AM >To: Motorola-Radius at yahoogroups.com ; 'Discussion of equipment manufactured >by Motorola' >Subject: [Motorola] NTN1171A Rapid Charger for HT1000 Radios > >I have several NTN1171A Rapid Chargers for HT1000 portable radios. I >noticed that some of them have four spring contacts while others have only >three. I opened one of each to see what was different. The three-contact >PCB has a part number of 8480648C01-P6, while the four-contact board has >part number 766V-A. There are significant differences between them in >component count and layout. > >I know that the NTN1171A charger is to be used only with NiCd batteries, and >was replaced by the RPX4747A charger, which can charge both NiCd and NiMH >batteries. The RPX4747A is now NLA, so I can't examine its PCB to see if it >might resemble the 766V-A PCB. Neither my HT1000 nor my Visar manuals >include any information about the NTN1171A or the RPX4747A chargers. > >I am well aware that a NiMH battery can be toasted if placed in a NiCd-only >charger, and I don't want to risk damaging a new NiMH aftermarket battery. >I wonder: Is it possible that the four-spring version of the NTN1171A is >actually an early embodiment of the RPX4747A? Moreover, is it safe to use >the four-spring NTN1171A to charge NiMH batteries? > >73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY > > >______________________________________________________________ >Motorola mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >______________________________________________________________ >Motorola mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >______________________________________________________________ >Motorola mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >______________________________________________________________ >Motorola mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > >______________________________________________________________ >Motorola mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/motorola >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:Motorola at mailman.qth.net > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html