-----Original Message-----
From: lbfulton@windstream.net <lbfulton@windstream.net>
Sent: Nov 2, 2022 5:36 PM
To: <milsurplus@mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [Milsurplus] Helicopter comm intercept.

The USN and USMC did not often use NESTOR in SEA, although the UHF-AM AN/PRC-41A was a modification of the -41 for NESTOR, and the KY-8 was on many USN ships including submarines for UHF-AM service. It was not installed with PBR and PCF AN/VRC-46 sets, and I have never read of USMC use of NESTOR in Vietnam. (The USMC was mostly out of Vietnam by 1971 except for embassy security.)

I've got a little problem with what has been written here. At Marble Mountain Air Facility, east of Da Nang, every CH-46 squadron had KY-28 voice encryption units on their aircraft. I have no reason to make this up. I worked on/maintained these encryption units. I left Vietnam with 12 combat aircrew medals from 5 months as a helicopter machine gunner in May, '71. Garrett Fulton, service number 2405379. The combat history will make it easier to look up the facts and see that I'm telling the truth. Didn't do any embassy security duty.

----- Original Message -----

From: milsurplus-request@mailman.qth.net

To: milsurplus@mailman.qth.net

Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 12:04:51 PM

Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 223, Issue 5

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: TBY on the air (Nick England)

2. Re: TBY on the air (Gene Smar)

3. CV-2460/SGC (Daniel Jones)

4. Re: Helicopter Comms Intercept as referenced in "The Greatest

Beer Run Ever" (Mike Morrow)

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Message: 1

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 18:19:18 -0400

From: Nick England

To: Hubert Miller

Cc: milsurplus

Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] TBY on the air

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The Marines didn?t like them, but some folks did??.

Convoy UC-21 May 1944

Liverpool to New York

*The Commodore says*

that the voyage was routine, "except greater plane coverage than ever

experienced before. On the whole the cooperation of the Masters, the

excellent TBY operation and communications, as well as the unusual

experience of having three ships in the convoy with radar, made it the best

convoy of which I have been Commodore".

Nick England K4NYW

www.navy-radio.com

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Message: 2

Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2022 01:08:03 +0000 (UTC)

From: Gene Smar

To: navy.radio@gmail.com, Hubert Miller

Cc: milsurplus

Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] TBY on the air

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Nalww2museum.org has an article declaring there were other indigenous peoples serving as code talkers. Some mentioned are Choktaw and Comanche. The Cherokee nation also provided talkers during WW1.

73 deGene Smar AD3F?

Sent from my Radio Shack TRS-80 model 100 laptop

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 6:19 PM, Nick England wrote: ______________________________________________________________

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Message: 3

Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2022 17:10:07 -0700

From: Daniel Jones

To: mrcg-west@groups.io, mrca@mailman.qth.net, List Milsurplus

, Greenkeys

Subject: [Milsurplus] CV-2460/SGC

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Good evening my fellow Military collectors. I am looking for a teletype converter CV-2460. If you have one available please let me know. It would be shipping to 92880.

Daniel Jones

K6YIC

www.K6YIC.com

DJones@K6YIC.com

HH#11973

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Message: 4

Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2022 16:04:43 +0000

From: Mike Morrow

To: Rob Flory , milsurplus

Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Helicopter Comms Intercept as referenced in

"The Greatest Beer Run Ever"

Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The NESTOR voice encryption system was developed by the mid-1960s for use with Tactical FM and (much less commonly) military UHF-AM radio sets.

NESTOR crypto units were:

TSEC/KY-8 Ground fixed and mobile

TSEC/KY-28 Aircraft

TSEC/KY-38 Portable man-pack

The Army's most commonly used man-pack set up to 1968 was the AN/PRC-25, but it was not compatible with NESTOR. The most important change made to its successor, the AN/PRC-77, was its redesign for NESTOR. The elimination of AN/PRC-25's one vacuum tube was of only incidental importance.

NESTOR-encrypted communication between all major Army units was thus NOT possible until the AN/PRC-77 showed up in 1968, along with the TSEC/KY-38 portable NESTOR unit.

The TSEC/KY-38 was almost the same size, shape, and weight as the AN/PRC-77. The two units connected together with a couple of awkward external cables very subject to entanglement in vegetation. Pity the poor RTO who carried it all plus his own packband weapon. The KY-38 thus was extremely unpopular with its users.

After 1968 TSEC/KY-28 was installed on most Army combat aircraft. A Command and Control UH-1 would have a KY-28 for its AN/ARC-54 or -131 Tac FM radio, plus a temporary console in the back with three AN/ARC-54 sets and TSEC/KY-28s.

Ground units had TSEC/KY-8 for some AN/VRC-12-series installations.

Among all users, NESTOR was unpopular due to voice transmission delay after PTT and distortion. Great care had to be taken with the initialization process on all units prior to an operation.

NESTOR was replaced by VINSON (TSEC/KY-57) more than 40 years ago. I don't have any idea what is used now.

Mike / KK5F

-----Original Message-----

From: Rob Flory

Sent: Nov 1, 2022 2:52 AM

To: milsurplus

Subject: [Milsurplus] Helicopter Comms Intercept as referenced in "The Greatest Beer Run Ever"

I recently read this book, quite a story, and it had some radio content.

One of the author's friends had a job installing upgraded comms gear in helicopters because VC or NVA were intercepting or at least detecting helicopter comms with an ordinary FM radio.

What was not clear was whether that meant a broadcast radio or an FM field radio of some kind.

I believe helos were equipped with low band FM gear and that either:

1)captured or interoperable sets were used or

2)harmonics of the low band FM gear were detected on a relatively empty FM broadcast band.

Option 1 would give legit intercept capability, which could be defeated by encryption. Option 2 might give enough early warning capability to either disappear or assume a defensive posture. Presence of signal, encrypted or not, might give the necessary warning.

Encryption would require the ground pounders to be encrypted also.

Anyone know anything that might flesh out the story?

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End of Milsurplus Digest, Vol 223, Issue 5