[Milsurplus] PCB's.
Glenn Little WB4UIV
glennmaillist at bellsouth.net
Sat Dec 2 22:00:37 EST 2023
I have been told that a test for PCB is to put the suspect oil in water.
If it sinks, it is probably PCB.
If it were me, I would collect the material inside the capacitor and
place it into a heavy duty zip lock bag and place kitty litter or oil
dri in the bag to absorb the oil.
Place it into household trash.
Years ago I was told by a health physicist that I, as an individual, did
not have to know all the EPA rules.
Glenn
On 12/2/2023 3:49 PM, hwhall at aol.com wrote:
> >I was more interested in restuffing filter caps in my TS-505D/U test set
> Took a look at the schematic. Are those filter caps really only 0.5 uF?
> You can open one to sample the oil for testing. Then decide whether
> the trash is okay for the residue. I suspect those have mineral oil only.
>
> Wayne
> WB4OGM
>
> On Saturday, December 2, 2023 at 01:26:15 PM MST, Reuben Popp
> <reuben.popp at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I knew that incineration is the typical method; at least, I know
> that's how they tend to handle dioxin style contamination, having
> lived near Times Beach here in Missouri during the 80s. I wasn't sure
> if newer methods like phytoremediation or similar is as successful or
> whatnot.
>
> Either way, it's not that I am over the top concerned, but I was more
> interested in restuffing filter caps in my TS-505D/U test set. I
> don't have it here in front of me, but I suspect it was made in the
> 50s, or maybe the early 60s. IF they were leaky (electrially) then
> ok, I could cut them open and restuff them. Same with my AN/URM-25D.
> But, what to do with the internal compounds? If they're still liquid,
> I get that same feeling about dumping them down the drain as if I
> dumped a bunch of antifreeze down the drain. Throw it in the trash?
> Eh...
>
> Yes, I still use leaded solder, no, I am not a die hard
> environmentalist, but it was about being safe. Same thing as the old
> adage of keeping one hand in your back pocket when you have a hand in
> the machine. My past history of smoking and later diabetes will likely
> kill me LONG before PCBs will, but it's never too late to play it
> smart. ;).
>
> Reuben
>
> On Sat, Dec 2, 2023 at 7:50 AM lbfulton at windstream.net
> <lbfulton at windstream.net> wrote:
>
> The comments on PCB's/old capacitors interested me. So, I sent an
> email to my older brother to get his take on it. He's a retired
> chief engineer for a big hazardous waste disposal outfit in CA.
> Here's his reply: The only way to destroy PCB's is to incinerate
> the oil as far as I know. Storage places and of course the
> incinerator's have to be federally approved to handle this stuff.
> We used to get old capacitors and other items that were likely to
> have PCB's but they occurred much less frequently as time went
> on. All of the big utility transformers were certified not to
> contain PCB's before we would accept them. Our storage permit had
> a special attachment to it specifying where PCB's could be
> stored. We generally only sent them on for incineration every few
> months. They are "forever" compounds but thankfully they are not
> a common problem any more.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 4:12:04 PM
> Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 236, Issue 4
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our equipment
> (joldenburg2 at new.rr.com)
> 2. Re: Yet another question: TS-505D/U lead wire
> (sbjohnston at aol.com)
> 3. Re: Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our equipment
> (sbjohnston at aol.com)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2023 20:19:15 +0000
> From: joldenburg2 at new.rr.com
> To: "'hwhall at aol.com'" <hwhall at compuserve.com>
> Cc: 'Military Surplus Mail List' <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our
> equipment
> Message-ID: <5264a61bba7b810d8c510efd17fcd977c17e095c at webmail>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> In clean-up projects here PCB was destroyed by incineration,
>
> Jon AB9AH
> "I have always preferred diversions to duties; this strange taste has
> clung to me all through my life." Clarence Darrow
>
> -----------------------------------------From: "hwhall at aol.com"
> To: "Military Surplus Mail List"
> Cc:
> Sent: Friday December 1 2023 1:55:35PM
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our
> equipment
>
> Manufacturing economics being what it is, one would expect capacitor
> makers used the cheapest oil available that met the electrical
> requirements - so, probably mineral oil almost always, unless very
> high voltages or flameproof requirements existed.
> There is a simple test to identify PCB vs mineral oil, used once
> (maybe still) in the electrical power industry. Mineral oils are
> lighter than PCBs & will rise to the top of water but PCBs will sink.
> So if you can get a drop or two of the suspect oil, you can test.
> As for disposal, is it any better in the long run to send to a
> landfill a sealed but leaking (or eventually leaking) capacitor body
> or some paper towels or rags with the same quantity of oil? Our
> hobby's output of PCB trash is almost microscopic. If we're really,
> really, really environmentally concerned (as we use our lead filled
> solder) perhaps there's a method to chemically destroy PCB?? It
> wouldn't have to be "economical" since we're not concerned with
> neutralizing industrial quantities.
> Wayne WB4OGM
>
> On 01/12/2023 17:05, Reuben Popp wrote:
> > My apologies to everyone for spamming the list so much lately. I'm
> > trying to do my research before asking the list, but sometimes my
> > google-fu isn't exactly fruitful.
> >
> > Anyway... Oil filled caps in our gear. Was it standard to denote
> > whether they contained PCBs in them, or is it a safe assumption
> that
> > ANY oil filled cap with a manufacture date before 1980 is suspect?
> As
> > most of those are likely out of spec and leaky, is there ANY way to
> > open the cap, dispose of the contents at an EPA approved site and
> then
> > restuff the shell with new components? Or is my only recourse to
> > decouple the old cap from the circuit and then place newer ones
> under
> > the chassis (or try to hide them, etc). If my only option is the
> > latter, once decoupled from the circuit, what's the likelihood that
> it
> > will actually start leaking (as in, the oil). One would think that
> > would be fairly miniscule, but what with some of these going on 80+
> > years old, it's a crap shoot at this point, no?
> >
> > Thanks again
> > Reuben
> >
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 20:50:53 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "sbjohnston at aol.com" <sbjohnston at aol.com>
> To: "milsurplus at mailman.qth.net" <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Yet another question: TS-505D/U lead wire
> Message-ID: <1267099547.10823231.1701463853984 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Reuben -
> I'm six thousand miles away from my wire stash right now, but I'll
> see if my wife can cut some lead wire and send it to you.? I'll
> email with you directly to work out the details.?
>
>
> Steve WD8DAS??
>
> sbjohnston at aol.com??
> http://www.wd8das.net/?? http://af4k-crystals.com/??
> --------------------------------------------------------------------??
>
> Radio is your best entertainment value.??
> --------------------------------------------------------------------??
>
>
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> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 21:11:49 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "sbjohnston at aol.com" <sbjohnston at aol.com>
> To: "milsurplus at mailman.qth.net" <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our
> equipment
> Message-ID: <565321425.10822365.1701465109623 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> I only rarely see capacitors marked as "containing PCB".? These
> are usually quite new caps, not the ones in vintage gear'
> I rely on the trade names to decide if a capacitor or transformer
> contains PCB.? You can see a list of some of these names at
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyl
> I've done a number of projects to replace PCB capacitors at
> broadcast transmitter sites.? The trade names I remember seeing
> most frequently were
>
> Pyranol
> AskarelDykanolClorinol
> Santotherm
>
> I don't have much concern about occasionally touching dielectric
> oils containing PCB.? I just clean up the area carefully and wash
> my hands thoroughly.? But I worry very much about having PCB
> around if there is a significant chance of fire.? In a fire, I
> understand that PCB can change into other very toxic chemicals
> that we do not want to breathe.
>
> Steve WD8DAS??
>
> sbjohnston at aol.com??
> http://www.wd8das.net/?? http://af4k-crystals.com/??
> --------------------------------------------------------------------??
>
> Radio is your best entertainment value.??
> --------------------------------------------------------------------??
>
>
>
>
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--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Glenn Little ARRL Technical Specialist QCWA LM 28417
Amateur Callsign: WB4UIVwb4uiv at arrl.net AMSAT LM 2178
QTH: Goose Creek, SC USA (EM92xx) USSVI, FRA, NRA-LM ARRL TAPR
"It is not the class of license that the Amateur holds but the class
of the Amateur that holds the license"
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