[Milsurplus] PCB's.

Sat Dec 2 08:50:38 EST 2023

The comments on PCB's/old capacitors interested me. So, I sent an email to my older brother to get his take on it. He's a retired chief engineer for a big hazardous waste disposal outfit in CA.  Here's his reply: The only way to destroy PCB's is to incinerate the oil as far as I know.  Storage places and of course the incinerator's have to be federally approved to handle this stuff.  We used to get old capacitors and other items that were likely to have PCB's but they occurred much less frequently as time went on.  All of the big utility transformers were certified not to contain PCB's before we would accept them.  Our storage permit had a special attachment to it specifying where PCB's could be stored.  We generally only sent them on for incineration every few months.   They are "forever" compounds but thankfully they are not a common problem any more. 

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From: milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
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Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 4:12:04 PM
Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 236, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our equipment
      (joldenburg2 at new.rr.com)
   2. Re: Yet another question: TS-505D/U lead wire (sbjohnston at aol.com)
   3. Re: Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our equipment
      (sbjohnston at aol.com)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2023 20:19:15 +0000
From: joldenburg2 at new.rr.com
To: "'hwhall at aol.com'" <hwhall at compuserve.com>
Cc: 'Military Surplus Mail List' <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our
	equipment
Message-ID: <5264a61bba7b810d8c510efd17fcd977c17e095c at webmail>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

In clean-up projects here PCB was destroyed by incineration,

Jon AB9AH
"I have always preferred diversions to duties; this strange taste has
clung to me all through my life." Clarence Darrow

	-----------------------------------------From: "hwhall at aol.com" 
To: "Military Surplus Mail List"
Cc: 
Sent: Friday December 1 2023 1:55:35PM
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our
equipment

  Manufacturing economics being what it is, one would expect capacitor
makers used the cheapest oil available that met the electrical
requirements - so, probably mineral oil almost always, unless very
high voltages or flameproof requirements existed. 
 There is a simple test to identify PCB vs mineral oil, used once
(maybe still) in the electrical power industry. Mineral oils are
lighter than PCBs & will rise to the top of water but PCBs will sink.
So if you can get a drop or two of the suspect oil, you can test. 
 As for disposal, is it any better in the long run to send to a
landfill a sealed but leaking (or eventually leaking) capacitor body
or some paper towels or rags with the same quantity of oil? Our
hobby's output of PCB trash is almost microscopic. If we're really,
really, really environmentally concerned (as we use our lead filled
solder) perhaps there's a method to chemically destroy PCB?? It
wouldn't have to be "economical" since we're not concerned with
neutralizing industrial quantities. 
 Wayne WB4OGM 

   On 01/12/2023 17:05, Reuben Popp wrote:
 > My apologies to everyone for spamming the list so much lately. I'm
 > trying to do my research before asking the list, but sometimes my
 > google-fu isn't exactly fruitful.
 >
 > Anyway... Oil filled caps in our gear. Was it standard to denote
 > whether they contained PCBs in them, or is it a safe assumption
that
 > ANY oil filled cap with a manufacture date before 1980 is suspect?
As
 > most of those are likely out of spec and leaky, is there ANY way to
 > open the cap, dispose of the contents at an EPA approved site and
then
 > restuff the shell with new components? Or is my only recourse to
 > decouple the old cap from the circuit and then place newer ones
under
 > the chassis (or try to hide them, etc). If my only option is the
 > latter, once decoupled from the circuit, what's the likelihood that
it
 > will actually start leaking (as in, the oil). One would think that
 > would be fairly miniscule, but what with some of these going on 80+
 > years old, it's a crap shoot at this point, no?
 >
 > Thanks again
 > Reuben
 >
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 20:50:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: "sbjohnston at aol.com" <sbjohnston at aol.com>
To: "milsurplus at mailman.qth.net" <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Yet another question: TS-505D/U lead wire
Message-ID: <1267099547.10823231.1701463853984 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Reuben -
I'm six thousand miles away from my wire stash right now, but I'll see if my wife can cut some lead wire and send it to you.? I'll email with you directly to work out the details.? 

Steve WD8DAS?? 

sbjohnston at aol.com?? 
http://www.wd8das.net/?? http://af4k-crystals.com/?? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------?? 
Radio is your best entertainment value.?? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------?? 

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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2023 21:11:49 +0000 (UTC)
From: "sbjohnston at aol.com" <sbjohnston at aol.com>
To: "milsurplus at mailman.qth.net" <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Oil filled capacitors and PCBs in our
	equipment
Message-ID: <565321425.10822365.1701465109623 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I only rarely see capacitors marked as "containing PCB".? These are usually quite new caps, not the ones in vintage gear'
I rely on the trade names to decide if a capacitor or transformer contains PCB.? You can see a list of some of these names at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polychlorinated_biphenyl
I've done a number of projects to replace PCB capacitors at broadcast transmitter sites.? The trade names I remember seeing most frequently were 

Pyranol
AskarelDykanolClorinol 
Santotherm

I don't have much concern about occasionally touching dielectric oils containing PCB.? I just clean up the area carefully and wash my hands thoroughly.? But I worry very much about having PCB around if there is a significant chance of fire.? In a fire, I understand that PCB can change into other very toxic chemicals that we do not want to breathe.

Steve WD8DAS?? 

sbjohnston at aol.com?? 
http://www.wd8das.net/?? http://af4k-crystals.com/?? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------?? 
Radio is your best entertainment value.?? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------?? 

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