[Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set

Robert Meadows rpmeadow at bellsouth.net
Wed Oct 10 21:50:22 EDT 2018 

My experience is that any of the "buzz words" in the little book resulted in demil.  Personally saw it on many occasions.  The employees were too lazy to challenge anything unless a "civilian" saw the item before classification and forced a demil challenge.
He NSN, formerly FSN management was with microfiche then aperture cards with microfiche, now it is called FEDLOG, with most all of that now on line only.  Was available on CD, then to DVD.  Some of the latest iterations have photos of the individual item, and as well drawings and specs other than item id, cost, demil code, recovery codes, etc.
The FedLog system, when properly installed from all the discs can be utilized with just a decent computer.
OR, if one subscribes, via the DLA website.
R
-----Original Message-----
From: Francesco Ledda [mailto:K5URG at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 9:20 PM
To: 'Robert Meadows'; 'Peter Gottlieb'
Cc: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net; 'Jim Whartenby'
Subject: RE: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set

If you ever seen the system required to manage all the NSN PNs, a little book will not do it.  There are millions of parts, and up to the late 80s, it was managed with hundreds microfiches and a huge microfiche viewer.

The system was cumbersome: first had to find the microfiche associated with the class (like 5820) and find the NSN and the corresponding PN. Once that was done, you needed to look for that PN on the corresponding  IL microfiche (Identification List) and look at the details of the part including Next Higher Item and Demil code, etc.. It was about 10 minutes of work for each NSN. 

Initially they had one microfiche for part number; these looked like an IBM punch card with a large DoD eagle printed in the middle and a 35mm microfiche on the right.  Later they moved to high resolution microfiche that contained hundreds of drawings.  

They moved to CDs in the early 90s.  I still have two 700MB CDs covering the whole DoD supply chain.  Even the CD system was a mess; you need a PC with two CD drives, and could not mount the data on hard drives or virtual disks.....

Best, Frank K5URG

-----Original Message-----
From: milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Robert Meadows
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 7:26 PM
To: 'Peter Gottlieb'; 'Francesco Ledda'
Cc: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net; 'Jim Whartenby'
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set

Yes, the DRMO did know what was on the demil list.  They had a handy little guide book, with item names and etc.
The DRMO always sold in relatively large "lots" with items sorted by stock class.  While the DRMO did not pack and ship, there was at every location a list of folk who did just that.  Those actually in the surplus purchasing/storage/sell business knew who those folk were, and utilized their services to get their materials shipped.
R

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Gottlieb [mailto:kb2vtl at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 2:30 PM
To: Francesco Ledda
Cc: Robert Meadows; milsurplus at mailman.qth.net; Jim Whartenby
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set

Something like that might work. It might be quite a business if they also 1) sold in lots for resellers and 2) had a packing and shipping department so they could sell to those who cannot travel to pick up. Then they could do online sales (even using eBay for some items) and make serious money. 


Peter

> On Oct 10, 2018, at 2:19 PM, Francesco Ledda <frledda at att.net> wrote:
> 
> Before the widespread use of computers, the DRMO did not know the Demil Class of a part, without doing additional work; unless a part looked like a weapon, it was not demiled!
> 
> In the 90s, a new computer based management system came on line; this system included the Demil Class in the DRMO list, and the widespread destruction started. 
> 
> Everybody said that Bush, being a business man, was going to fix it. Of course, he did not have the time to deal with this "minor" issue. 
> 
> The way to solve this problem is to transfer all unneeded DoD items out of DoD to the GSA or any other organization focused on recovering $s for the US Government.  
> 
> Frank, K5URG
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter Gottlieb
> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 12:00 PM
> To: Robert Meadows
> Cc: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net; Jim Whartenby
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set
> 
> The problem with making this political is that you can’t rely on politicians to solve the problem, or to solve the problem without causing worse side effects. Politicians didn’t cause the massive Pentagon bureaucracy and absent a massive organizational review and revamping (which frankly I don’t see happening any time soon), they aren’t going to fix it. 
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 12:37 PM, Robert Meadows <rpmeadow at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry Jon, you are wrong.
>> 
>> Electronics are collected at specified DLA sites (formerly DROMs) and then transferred to the DEMIL site for destruction.  Each Service Branch is billed annually for the "shortfall" in cost of DLA to handle the "surplus" that is not made up in sales.  Currently nearly everything that is declared surplus is directed to scrap contracts wherein the purchaser of the scrap by contract must destroy beyond useable everything. This includes new drill bits, machine tools, auto parts, aircraft parts etc.  The electronics go to the demil sites for govt employees to destroy it.
>> You would be quite surprised at what is still in govt/DLA storage.  
>> 
>> Trump would be interested simply because of the waste of money, man hours and materials that in many cases are parts that have been declared excess on the East Coast and are in dire need on the West Coast... the system has been set up, beginning with Clinton and made even more destructive of materials by obama, the thing that has done a good job of destroying the capability of the US Armed forces.
>> 
>> R
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: joldenburg2 at new.rr.com [mailto:joldenburg2 at new.rr.com] 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2018 10:44 AM
>> To: Peter Gottlieb; Robert Meadows
>> Cc: Jim Whartenby; milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set
>> 
>> On the original statement regarding R-390A and tube equipment the last usage of that equipment was at the onset of Desert Storm-1, in 1990. That was 28+ years ago and the use was a stop gap measure. The chance the units are still in storage and not surplused as of yet is slight at this point. Most equipment placed in use into 1980s to present had encrypting  abilities and that was the primary reason for demilling.
>> 
>> Jon AB9AH
>> ---- Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com> wrote: 
>> 
>> =============
>> Two things:
>> 
>> One, Trump does not care at all about our measly hobby, and,
>> 
>> Two, the cost to demil is tiny and in most cases borne by the buyer of the scrap. It would bring in almost nothing (in the scheme of defense dept costs) and incur high costs for sorting, compliance and management. Then of course the problem of diversion to enemies or some stupid journalist trying to score points about finding how we are selling military equipment to our enemies (never mind the real cases of doing this directly).
>> 
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 12:38 AM, Robert Meadows <rpmeadow at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> That is correct Jim, unless we can get the ear of one Donald John Trump and convince him of the present bad “deal” for the better deal of just selling the antique radio equipment for what would actually be a profit, as the cost to “demil” is quite high.
>> 
>>> R
>>> 
>>> From: milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim Whartenby
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 8:47 PM
>>> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set
>>> 
>>> Is this concern for Chinese surplus the result of the lack of military radio surplus in the US?  
>>> 
>>> In exchanges with fellow list members, it appears that just about all US military electronic surplus now has a DMIL D requirement.  I suspect that even the remaining R-390A now have that requirement, along with every other other piece of vacuum tube based military electronics.  
>>> 
>>> So I guess that only the equipment that is already in the hands of the public is all that will ever exist as US military surplus radios?
>>> Comments?
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> I wonder why people argue over the 10% of their differences and ignore the 90% they agree on?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Hubert Miller <kargo_cult at msn.com>
>>> To: Mike Morrow <kk5f at arrl.net>; "milsurplus at mailman.qth.net" <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net> 
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Chinese 102/139 set
>>> 
>>> And this was a fairly recent policy change. The H.K. fellow was as puzzled as well as to the thinking behind the apparent reversal, but less puzzled than we, at least having closer insight into Chinese nationalism. ( and "social control". )
>>> If you see differently and indeed I'm wrong and such eqpt is still being exported, I welcome  learning more. 
>>> -Hue
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
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>> 
>> Jon Oldenburg AB9AH
>> "A bicycle can't stand on it's own because it is two tired..."
>> 
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