[Milsurplus] Fwd: Re: "Lancaster" - no copilot

[Mark K3MSB]

Yes Joe!

73 Mark K3MSB

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Joe Connor <joeconnor53 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Mark, maybe our difference is this: I see that song reflecting airman
> angst about the missions the Eighth was ordered to fly in the days before
> long-range fighter support. I don't see it reflecting any negativity
> towards the attributes of the B-17 itself. The airmen loved the durability
> of the B-17 but undoubtedly wished they didn't have to demonstrate that
> durability on every mission they flew. Here's another one showing that
> angst about the missions:
>
> *They say there's a Fortress just leaving Calais,*
>
> *Bound for old Limey shore.*
>
> *It's heavily laden with petrified men,*
>
> *And stiffs laid out on the floor.*
>
> *Many a Focke Wulf made many a pass,*
>
> *Many a Messerschmitt too.*
>
> *They shot off our bollicks,*
>
> *Shot up our hydraulics.*
>
> *But cheer up, my lads, f**ck 'em all.*
>
>
>                           Joe Connor
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 6:54 PM, Mark K3MSB <mark.k3msb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >>The "testimony of history" and barroom songs are rarely congruent for
> good and sufficient reason
>
> Yes, Mike;  that's correct,  although I would have used the term gallows
> humor whereas you used barroom songs.   I maintain that how aircrews felt
> about the B-17 is not accurately represented by what Joe posted, and the
> contrary is substantiated by the historical record.
>
> I would agree with Joe's "barroom song" about flying over the hump as that
> is congruent with what I have found the historical record to reflect.
>
> 73 Mark K3MSB
>
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:33 PM, Michael Hanz <aaf-radio-1 at aafradio.org>
> wrote:
>
> On 10/4/2017 4:15 PM, Mark K3MSB wrote:
>
> To say that your "poem" accurately represented how aircrews felt about the
> B-17 would put the burden of proof squarely upon your shoulders against the
> overwhelming testimony of history to the contrary.
>
>
> I didn't see that conclusion anywhere in Joe's posting, Mark.  The
> "testimony of history" and barroom songs are rarely congruent for good and
> sufficient reason.  The B-17, any variant, like any weapon wasn't perfect
> by a long shot, and most military servicemen seemed to like to compose
> limericks or songs about their weapons that are considerably less than
> complimentary at times.  It helps you smile at something in the midst of
> the brutality and tragedy of combat.  The war in Viet Nam was full of
> them.  Now - hearing someone from *outside* the "band of brothers"
> (whatever that limited group might be) verbally malign their weapons will
> bring about a sturdy defense - especially with a bit of alcoholic
> lubrication - but the majority of servicemen understand the tradition and
> take it in good fun.  At least I always did.
>
>          73,
>  - Mike  KC4TOS
>
>
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