[Milsurplus] Fwd: Re: "Lancaster" - no copilot

Wed Oct 4 09:04:08 EDT 2017

Bomber Command initially did daylight bombing.   It was only after the
associated high loss rates that they transitioned to night time bombing.

The Brits thought the US was nuts when they spoke of precision daylight
bombing.

 73 Mark K3MSB

On Oct 4, 2017 8:16 AM, "Joe Connor via Milsurplus" <
milsurplus at mailman.qth.net> wrote:

> How much of the Lancaster design was based on the notion it would be used
> for night-time bombing? Remember that the plan was for the U.S. to launch
> daytime raids with B-17s and B-24s, while the British used the Lancasters
> for night-time attacks. That way, the Germans would be hit day and night.
>
> With daytime attacks, fighters presented more danger than anti-aircraft
> fire, but with night attacks, it was the opposite. Therefore, the
> Lancasters probably didn't need as many guns or as large a crew as the
> B-17s and B-24s.
>
> Am I on to something?
>
>                        Joe Connor
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 4, 2017 3:16 AM, James Whartenby <
> antqradio at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bruce
> I am certainly no expert, if I find a topic interesting, I do a little
> research and report the results back to the group.  WW2 aircraft and
> avionics is outside of my current interests but I do have a few radio
> receivers and other items in the collection from WW2.  Personally I am
> interested in the B-47, the first operational jet bomber and the various
> systems it carried.  This said, I do admire the Lancaster for it's
> capability.  The Brits had some outstanding aircraft like the Lancaster and
> the Mosquito that continue to go unnoticed on this side of the pond.
>
> I haven't seen anything that directly addresses your question on the
> Lancaster but I suspect that there was no "Plan B" other then evasion of
> flack and fighters.  Don't know if there was any cross training,
> intentional or otherwise but people do pick skills up by observation.
> The film mentions that moving around in the dark when the aircraft was in
> stable flight was a challenge.  One assumes moving around inside the
> airframe was impossible when the aircraft was in dire straits.  So it seems
> that bailing out was hard to do.
>
> In some variations of the Lancaster, it was suggested that the crew number
> be reduced below seven members so that the loss of life is also reduced per
> aircraft lost.  Removing some crew and gun turrets reduced weight, allowed
> for larger bomb loads and increased airspeed. The argument was that this
> modification would also reduce aircraft losses.  Sounds like what was done
> to late war B-29's.
>
> So I assume that the air crews were fully aware of the odds and possible
> outcomes of going into battle in a Lancaster or any other aircraft,
> regardless of service or side.
> Regards,
> Jim
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Bruce Gentry <ka2ivy at verizon.net>
> *To:* Milsurplus <Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 3, 2017 10:13 PM
> *Subject:* [Milsurplus] Fwd: Re: "Lancaster" - no copilot
>
>
> If the pilot was killed or incapitated, was the crew to bail out or did
> the engineer have some flight training, official or otherwise? A surprising
> amount of impromptu helicopter flight training took place in Vietnam so the
> crew had a chance to get to a safe place and hopefully make a successful
> landing. Did the RAF accept pilot trainees who had private pilot experience
> but lacked other educational qualifications?   The USAAF and US Air Force
> require pilots to be commissioned officers, and a collage degree was
> normally required to be an officer. There were  field commissions and other
> ways around this for exceptional needs.  In Vietnam, helicopter pilots were
> often warrant officers, and at that time a collage degree was not
> required.  I think this was also true in the US Navy during the Korean War,
> where helicopters were flown by "operators".
>
>       Bruce Gentry,  KA2IVY
>
>
>
> On 10/2/17 5:25 PM, James Whartenby wrote:
>
> Yea, the Avro Lancaster gets no respect.
>
> Single pilot since Great Briton didn't have the manpower.  Great Briton
> had a population of about 50 million in 1941 while the US had about 133
> million.  The Flight engineer assisted the pilot as part of his duties so
> the pilot wasn't totally on his own.  Most Lancaster pilots started flying
> missions with less then 200 hours total flying time.  Average life of a
> Lancaster was about 40 hours which seems to be typical of WW2 aircraft.
> Reliability wasn't a big concern since the chance of the Lancaster wearing
> out was remote; again the same for most WW2 aircraft.
>
> The Lancaster had a crew of 7 vs a crew of 10 for the B-17 and a crew of
> 11 for the B-24 and B-29.  Bomb load of the Lancaster wasn't equaled by USA
> aircraft until the B-29 came along.  The Lancaster carried a normal load of
> 14,000 pounds in a 33 foot long unobstructed bomb bay while the B-17
> carried 4,500 pounds and the B-24 carried 5,000 pound bomb load for an 800
> mile mission.  The B-29 carried 12,000 pounds at medium altitude and had a
> 1400 mile range.  The Lancaster could be and was modified to carry it's own
> weight in bombs!
>
> If you have Amazon Prime Internet TV, there is a movie titled "Bombers
> over Germany - WW2" which is in two parts.  First is a color training film
> for Lancaster crews which has good views of the inside of the Lancaster
> including radios and radar.  The second part of the film is the "Memphis
> Bell."
> Jim
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Kenneth G. Gordon <kgordon2006 at frontier.com>
> <kgordon2006 at frontier.com>
> *To:* Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com> <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* <Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> *Sent:* Monday, October 2, 2017 12:03 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Milsurplus] "Lancaster" - no copilot
>
> On 1 Oct 2017 at 21:28, Peter Gottlieb wrote:
>
> > Easier to build planes than train pilots?
>
> Maybe. Even "probably". Still seems downright dumb to me. What about the
> other crew?
>
>
> Ken W7EKB
>
> ---
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