[Milsurplus] Fwd: Those P-39s Still in the Crates...

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

This reply should have also gone to the list but apparently I sent it only
to Hue. My apologies - was up waaaay past my bedtime getting stuff done.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Todd, KA1KAQ <ka1kaq at gmail.com>
Date: Sat, May 6, 2017 at 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Those P-39s Still in the Crates...
To: Hubert Miller <Kargo_cult at msn.com>


On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 11:39 PM, Hubert Miller <Kargo_cult at msn.com> wrote:

> I love the stories but i have learned to retain some healthy skepticism.
> Wiki says the variant based with RAAF on Goodenough Island was the
> Kittyhawk, P-40.
>

And we know it must be true if it's on the internet. (o:

Actually, I don't think anyone ever said otherwise, Hue. I certainly
didn't, nor did my friend Gary. In fact, he told me that Charles has a
fully restored, fully functional P-40N model that he recovered from the
area back in the 70s and restored. He did say that new P-39s were dropped
there and never uncrated due to the pace of the island hopping campaign.
Tonight he said they just redirected the next ship full of supplies to the
new location and left most everything behind.

If you look a little further on the Wrecks site, you can find this:

http://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/p-39/42-19993.html

And a quote from Mr Darby himself:

"In the course of these operations about 30 aircraft were recovered
including P-40s, P-39s, an A-20, Boomerangs, and Spitfires"

Which, along with numerous photos, certainly shows they were used in the
PNG area. To be honest, I'm not sure why the P-39 would be used as a
replacement for the P-40 - more likely a case of 'what's available off the
shelf'.

As for remnants, think about this logically, after years of Japanese,
> Australian, and American collectors searching the jungles and cutting deals
> the natives.
>

Yes, well....it's a logical enough notion to have, until you factor in that
searching the jungles over there isn't anything like taking a hike through
the woods here. Heat, humidity, bugs, swamps, monsoons and the rest. I
think there was likely a flurry of activity early on for the long-hanging
fruit that was easy to recover, before the government got too deeply
interested. And again - Gary didn't claim there were still airfields packed
with aircraft and equipment, merely that there is still a lot of 'stuff'
out there - planes, buildings, trucks, parts, etc etc. But also - much of
the searching has been based on finds that natives and others have stumbled
across over the years. I doubt there have been many random searches taking
place. The P-61 Black Widow project is a perfect example: they knew it was
there and someone eventually recovered it.

Here's another quote from Mr Darby about that very thing. Seems it's been a
popular theme throughout the decades:

"Another lesson was never to believe that "there is nothing left there".
After weeks of work involving dozens of people at the American end of one
of the Tadji strips, with all the aircraft we wanted already recovered, all
our equipment removed, and all personnel gone, I stayed behind to do one
last scour of the area for dropped tools etc. And found a large dump of
corroding antipersonnel bombs stretching for several yards (OK, metres)
within inches (cm, if you insist) of our main vehicle access track into the
area. Then it started to rain, and since there were no more aircraft to use
as shelter I moved into the regrowth scrub beside where the now-recovered
aircraft had been. And there was a complete P-39N named "Small Fry". Same
thing happened at Nadzab: "experts" told us there was nothing left, but we
found the remains of 22 aircraft in one single afternoon, several of which
were salvaged."


> As to the 3000 aircraft dumped at sea in one area, i was saying to myself,
> "Hmmmm......3000 ? "
> Think about the logistics of concentrating 3000 aircraft from remote areas
> to one dump site. And then you might ask yourself, "Why?"
>

And I might answer "Because it's deep, and the ocean is large". I'm not
sure it was a matter of bringing them all there from remote areas to dump,
that's an assumption. It more likely took place over months, maybe years.
Gary got the figures from the archives there, where he spent considerable
time doing research. I'm not sure if that's where he saw the video as well.
He mentioned that many of the radio pieces he got had the aircraft SN
stenciled on them so it was relatively easy to get the history of a
specific piece of gear.

He did also tell me about another auction of aircraft that took place many
years ago, mostly P-40s and Corsairs. He said they flew all these aircraft
in and serviced them all back to good condition. When I asked why, he said
they expected to get good money for them. But no one bid, and they sat
around for some time. Eventually he said the entire lot was sold to one
scrapper for 10,000 pounds total. Can't remember how many hundred aircraft,
but a lot.


> On a related thought, it quite astonishes me how quickly, once a
> technology is superseded, the old technology is swept from the table. In a
> more perfect world, "someone", that is some government agencies,
> would try to preserve at least one each of everything made.


If you read Charles Darby's comments on the Wrecks site, he more or less
covers that in describing how museums and governments have a way of
disposing of things they should keep, depending on the political winds at
the time or who is in charge.

"Often these events result from the actions of uninterested "time-servers"
in positions of authority, where a private individual interested in
aviation history would never have acted in such a manner."


> That would apply to electronics too, but it is not to be. In many cases,
> it's up to us to preserve, altho it doesn't pay well at all.
>

The only reward is the enjoyment and satisfaction we get from it, Hue,
because we have some appreciation from whence it came. We revere those who
were young men and women then, who built the equipment, flew the aircraft,
fought the enemies of all we believe in. Hard to put a value on holding a
piece of that history in your hands. Though I reluctantly admit, going
forward that appreciation will diminish as it's shared by fewer and fewer
with some knowledge of that time.

Gary is going to send me Charles' email address and contact him to let him
know I'll be emailing. We're going to talk about radio gear but I'll ask
him more about the P-39s in crates and the recovery of items over there in
general. I doubt anyone would know more or better than him since he spent
years doing it. My main question is - why hasn't anyone gone back to get
them? Inaccessible location? Too far gone now? I mean, even if you still
have to add wings and a prop, it's a pretty good start.
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