[Milsurplus] Question ( RBS; submarine )

[Gene Smar]

Gents:

     IMHO:  WAS QRP = 50 pairs of exceptional ears.  But I digress.....


73 de
Gene Smar  AD3F


-----Original Message-----
From: Milsurplus [mailto:milsurplus-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
Kenneth G. Gordon
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 6:14 PM
To: Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Question ( RBS; submarine )

I am in total agreement with you, Ray.

Ken W7EKB

On 25 Aug 2016 at 21:21, Ray Fantini wrote:

> 
>     I am still not buying it, the Afghanis in there mud huts believe that
the Americans can 
>     hear their conversations with drones five miles above them. QRP
operations in the Ham 
>     bands are a wonderful thing but my experience of running low power CW
and AM left 
>     me with the idea that life is too short for QRP, lots of time spent
calling other stations or 
>     CQ with little response. If all the stars and planets are in perfect
alignment sometimes 
>     they get lucky and have a short exchange and call that a QSO, but
that´s just me.
>     I would have thought German surface raiders in there short period of
time in operation 
>     relied on things like patrolling know shipping lanes and approaches
and visual sighting of 
>     smoke way before they would use something as sketchy as receiver LO
detection. And 
>     as to the noise floor remember that we are talking about a ship that
also had many 
>     electrically powered motors and other potential noise sources.
>     No, if no one here can´t sight a document I am sticking with LO
radiation being an issue 
>     in using multipole receivers in the same location and the idea of long
range LO direction 
>     finding a myth.
>      
>     Ray F/KA3EKH
>     From: Nick England [mailto:navy.radio at gmail.com]
>     Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2016 12:31 PM
>     To: Ray Fantini <RAFANTINI at salisbury.edu>
>     Cc: Military Surplus List <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
>     Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Question ( RBS; submarine )
>      
>     "It has been reported", .... but I don't know where -
>     
>     From http://www.tubedevices.net/Lorenz.php
>     "It has been reported that a German raider during WWII indeed managed
to locate 
>     merchant ships sailing on their own, not in convoy, by direction
finding on the signal 
>     radiated by their receivers. Presumably, these ships had rather
old-fashioned equipment, 
>     perhaps with an oscillating detector directly coupled to the antenna."
>     Certainly NRL and USN training documents say that the purpose of
shielding and RF and 
>     stages was to prevent LO radiation that could be tracked by enemy
ships. The NRL 
>     history states this rationale for the RAA, RAK, RAL, etc. designs,
well before it could 
>     have been invented as a "cover story" for Ultra, etc. So it seems
there was certainly the 
>     belief that it was possible.
>     I'm not so hot to dismiss this as myth or misdirection - The middle of
the Atlantic in 1942 
>     must have been pretty damn quiet RF-wise. (Unimaginably quiet compared
to my house.)  
>     And an oscillator connected to a nice long wire high above a steel
ship in a salt water 
>     ocean is not to be sneezed at.
>     
>     Current QRP efforts have shown 500+ mile reception on 80m with a 40
microwatt 
>     transmitter.
>     Here's some 100mw 500kc results - http://www.w4dex.com/medfer.htm
> 
>     Nick England K4NYW
>     www.navy-radio.com
>      
>     On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Ray Fantini
<RAFANTINI at salisbury.edu> wrote:
>     Can anyone anywhere document just one example of active LO direction
finding in use 
>     by any Navy in WW2? , I am not talking about DF operations in fixing
locations of 
>     submarines or surface craft by receiving low to medium powered CW or
AM 
>     transmissions, or the practice of receiving radar emissions to
identify frequencies and 
>     pulse rates but the alleged practice of attempting to receive the LO
of a receiver at any 
>     distance beyond a hundred feet.
>      



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