[Milsurplus] [armyradios] Re: OT: Solar Panels

Sun Oct 3 16:41:20 EDT 2010

  Tax incentives are not the only subsidy. If PV arrays can cause the 
deferral of building new grid infrastructure by peak shaving, they can 
be attractive to the grid operators, especially if they can get the 
state to let them use money that is in your utility bill that has 
specifically been earmarked for exactly that (yes, I know, that is a 
form of a tax as well, but a much more efficient and targeted one).

There are efforts underway to decentralize the grid (for protection from 
sabotage, efficiency reasons, etc.) and this helps.

On 10/3/2010 2:58 PM, J. Forster wrote:
>
> And you didn't include the solar panel cost.
>
> I've looked at solar also. My average power consumption is roughly 1 KW.
> There is no way I can make it pay because the initial costs are just too
> high.
>
> Remember, the sun is only out part of the day, some days a year, and there
> is always the geometry issue, unless you actively orient the panels. At a
> guess, you'd need a peak capacity of 5x to 10x your average to make it
> work out.
>
> IMO, the only way solar pays is if it is heavily supported by tax
> incentives... other peoples money.
>
> Furthermore, I suspect that the life cycle costs (battery and solar cells)
> are systematically underestimated. I know they are for solar hot water
> units.
>
> FWIW,
>
> -J0hn
>
> ================
>
> > Probably considered OT, but I trust this group's good sense.
> > Please reply off-list (unless a lot of people say they
> > want to see the thread :)
> >
> > One of the more effective ways of using solar panels
> > to help with your bill is to connect them through
> > a "grid synchronizing" or "grid tie" inverter.
> > These create a pure sine wave at a slightly higher
> > voltage than the line, so that they actually feed power
> > back to the grid.
> > They used to cost like $2000, but the Chinese have
> > gotten into the act and moved that decimal place
> > to the left; you can get one for less then $200 now.
> >
> > I need some smart people to tell me
> > if I have this right:
> >
> > I have 400 watts worth of solar panels.
> > I feed these to a grid-tie inverter.
> > Fudging for losses, let's say I can deliver 350 watts
> > to the grid for about 14 hours a day (in the summer).
> > That's 4.9 kWh a day. Times 30 days is 147 kWh.
> > My electric rate is 12.6 cents per kWh.
> > That's $18.52 a month discounted to my bill,
> > best case. Average it out over the year for
> > low-output days and let's call it $12 a month.
> > That's $144 a year. Payback time on that
> > small system would be long.
> >
> > Hardly seems worth the trouble.
> >
> > 73 Dave S.
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Milsurplus mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net 
> <mailto:Milsurplus%40mailman.qth.net>
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
>
> __._,_.___
> Reply to sender 
> <mailto:jfor at quik.com?subject=Re:%20[Milsurplus]%20OT:%20Solar%20Panels> 
> | Reply to group 
> <mailto:armyradios at yahoogroups.com?subject=Re:%20[Milsurplus]%20OT:%20Solar%20Panels> 
> | Reply via web post 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJwMDFndm5pBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEbXNnSWQDNDIwOTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjg2MTMyNDA5?act=reply&messageNum=42098> 
> | Start a New Topic 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJkbTk5aGJvBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDbnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjg2MTMyNDA5> 
>
> Messages in this topic 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios/message/42098;_ylc=X3oDMTM1Z2c0ZWtiBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEbXNnSWQDNDIwOTgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMjg2MTMyNDA5BHRwY0lkAzQyMDk4> 
> (1)
> Recent Activity:
>
>     * New Members
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcjhyazkzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdm1icnMEc3RpbWUDMTI4NjEzMjQwOQ--?o=6>
>       2
>     * New Photos
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJla3NwZ21kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdnBob3QEc3RpbWUDMTI4NjEzMjQwOQ-->
>       14
>
> Visit Your Group 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZnFhMHFoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEc2VjA3Z0bARzbGsDdmdocARzdGltZQMxMjg2MTMyNDA5> 
>
> For current radio net info, see the bi-weekly net
> announcement which is sent to you via e-mail.
>
> The net schedule can also viewed at any time,
> by going to:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios/files/armynets.txt
>
> The URL for the armyradios group at Yahoo is: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/armyradios
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: armyradios at yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: armyradios-subscribe at yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: armyradios-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
> List owner: armyradios-owner at yahoogroups.com
>
> MARKETPLACE
>
> Hobbies & Activities Zone: Find others who share your passions! 
> Explore new interests. 
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15o5j90n7/M=493064.14012770.13963757.13298430/D=groups/S=1705034690:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1286139609/L=718e2910-cf20-11df-99d2-0badf6bb9339/B=okVjA0oGYvs-/J=1286132409510994/K=V2uw_.2PpYn0K2XgYwFmOg/A=6015306/R=0/SIG=11vlkvigg/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/hobbiesandactivitieszone/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Get great advice about dogs and cats. Visit the Dog & Cat Answers 
> Center. 
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15otajnar/M=493064.13814537.14041040.10835568/D=groups/S=1705034690:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1286139609/L=718e2910-cf20-11df-99d2-0badf6bb9339/B=oUVjA0oGYvs-/J=1286132409510994/K=V2uw_.2PpYn0K2XgYwFmOg/A=6078812/R=0/SIG=114ae4ln1/*http://dogandcatanswers.yahoo.com/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on 
> - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. 
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ovl708d/M=493064.13983314.14041046.13298430/D=groups/S=1705034690:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1286139609/L=718e2910-cf20-11df-99d2-0badf6bb9339/B=oEVjA0oGYvs-/J=1286132409510994/K=V2uw_.2PpYn0K2XgYwFmOg/A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj>
>
> Yahoo! Groups 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJjN2dxYTNkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI2NTc0OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwMzQ2OTAEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDZ2ZwBHN0aW1lAzEyODYxMzI0MDk-> 
>
> Switch to: Text-Only 
> <mailto:armyradios-traditional at yahoogroups.com?subject=Change%20Delivery%20Format:%20Traditional>, 
> Daily Digest 
> <mailto:armyradios-digest at yahoogroups.com?subject=Email%20Delivery:%20Digest> 
> • Unsubscribe 
> <mailto:armyradios-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> • 
> Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
>
> __,_._,___