[Milsurplus] Enough about the European views

[Wammes Witkop]

Hi Alan,

Indeed, you run a chance of the occasional flame, I'd guess. But not 
from me - I applaud your bravery in taking this point of view in an 
otherwise rather unpleasant thread. Or, to put it otherwise, as a 
European I was beginning to feel mighty unwelcome. Not a froggy, but a 
cloggy. No doubt there's things against us as well.

Cheers, Wammes

Alan Barrow wrote:
> Dan Arney wrote:
> 
>> Bruce, A very true statement. I have seen my share in my travels.
>> If I had to live outside of the USA and had my choice, France would 
>> very close to the bottom of the list.
> 
> 
> Imagine saying this about the US based on a visit to Chicago, LA, and 
> NYC.  My experience with France is that they are just as regionalized as 
> the US is, with just as many differences.
> 
> Anytime you start painting millions of people with the same brush, I 
> believe you get into trouble, whether it's the US, France, middle-east, 
> or whatever. To me it's a form of ignorance at best.
> 
> For what it's worth, I've found most French outside of Paris to like 
> Americans, they just don't understand why we support our politicians and 
> their policies. There is far more to French behaviour than disliking a 
> country. I won't take the time to go into it, but I'll just say I 
> understand why they have some of their perceptions based on traveling 
> and working with the French (and Germans) on an ongoing basis.
> 
> An example: Most resturants are closed on Mondays. Seems stupid, and 
> certainly not the norm. But once you understand why, and that it's a 
> level playing field, then it makes more sense. Here's the flow:
> 
> - Most resturants and shops are family owned and operated
> - Most are open on Saturday
> - So they close on Monday so they don't have to work 6-7 days a week. 
> Who would want that for a family?
> - Nearly all resturants do this, so folks just plan around it. You don't 
> eat out on Monday, except fast food if traveling.
> - It's not a rule, but more of a cultural understanding. And since 
> everyone does it, there's not a competitve advantage to someone who 
> opens on Monday.
> - Enter McDonalds (or other chain). They pay more, they stay open when 
> others are closed, etc. It disrupts the pattern, and slowly drives the 
> family operation out of business, as they have to take on more 
> employees, usually non-family. Which means tax and labor law complexity. 
> You have to have a manager to cover it when you are not there, etc.
> 
> It's a curse of "globalization". I enjoy the family owned shops and 
> businesses, and see the effect of the corporate giants killing our home 
> town small businesses. In France, they are trying to support the family 
> owned businesses, which I admire. In the US, we allowed them to go out 
> of business just to save 10% on price. So now I have to make do with the 
> limited stock Home Depot or Wal-Mart carries because my local family 
> owned hardware store is now out of business. And I miss them!
> 
> I see similar behavior about continuing to use/waste paper the way we 
> do. When all businesses commit to using less office paper, and it 
> becomes a cultural norm, then there is intense peer pressure not to 
> waste it. We waste paper in the US. There, I said it. We are tree 
> killers more than we have to be. (there is a difference between zero 
> forestry, VS use what you need, but don't waste it.)
> 
> After driving in several thousand k's in France, Germany, and Austria, 
> and other countries, I can say this:
> - Their highways & bridges are in better shape than out interstates
> - Their highways are prettier, as they don't allow billboards (why do we?)
> - Semi-trailers do not dominate like on ours. In fact, they drive mostly 
> at night to avoid traffic. Slow Semi's have to take secondary roads 
> rather than disrupt traffic in the highways. Bad behaviour is simply not 
> tolerated.
> - Everyone "drives right". IE: you only get in the left lane to pass. 
> It's enforced, and everyone abides. And traffic flows so much better.
> - Drivers are more professional and more courteous than in the US. It's 
> shocking to adjust to the Euro norm, then drop back on a US highway. 
> When I come back from a long trip, it's 2-3 days of nearly getting hit 
> before I (sadly) adjust to the US norm of discourtesy.
> - Roundabouts work so much better than traffic lights. You can drive 
> across most European cities and spend 1/4 of the time stopped than the 
> similar distance in a US city. It's lights VS roundabouts. Yes, they 
> have lights, but if they can use a roundabout, they do.
> - Roundabouts don't work well in the US because it takes a level of 
> cooperation and courtesy France and Germany maintain, which the US does 
> not.
> - It's not traffic density, it's the core "every man for themselves, 
> I'll not back down for the other guy mindset" you see in the US. This 
> aspect is consistant... I've drivenextensively in Norway, New Zealand, 
> Australia, France, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Barbados. In every 
> one of those countries, drivers take "give gap, take gap" seriously. IE: 
> they cooperate, and they'll slow if someone needs to come in or make a 
> turn. I'm convinced US drivers would rather hit someone than slow down. 
> Forget about yellow lights!
> - I can seamlessly transfer from international flight to high speed 
> train to regional train to subway with coordinated schedules in a manner 
> they US has never achieved in any single city, much lost all the major 
> areas. Yet it's the norm in France/Germany/Switzerland. My 5 year old 
> son asked me why the US did not use trains/subways like in Munich, 
> because it worked so well. I did not have a good answer for him. The 
> French trains work just as well.
> 
> So from the French (and German) view, we waste energy and pollute more 
> than we need to, because of the way we drive and the way our traffic 
> system works. And I now have to agree. And we don't have a plan to 
> address it, which we should.
> 
> So back to the French. They don't hate us. In fact, they want to like 
> us, believe it or not. They just don't understand why we do some of the 
> things we do. And after seeing many other ways of doing things, I'm not 
> blind enough to believe that the US norm is the *only* way. I love and 
> respect the US, and always will. But I also see many things we need to 
> do better. And I can now see how the French and Germans are baffled at 
> why we do things the way we do. Some of it I can't defend.
> 
> So before the attacks start, I'm not defending the French, or any 
> others. I'm being realistic about the US, based on direct (not TV or 
> news or rhetoric) comparison from personal experience. So it's not 
> politics, I'm as conservative as many others here. I don't like the fact 
> the French did not support taking out Saddam. But I'm also not convinced 
> we planned the war well, or had clear objectives, etc. So in many 
> aspects, we positioned Europe to say "I told you so" about Iraq. That is 
> the politicians fault, not the GI serving.
> 
> Sorry for the long post. But whenever I see ignorant statements like 
> several of the recent posts painting an entire country with one brush, I 
> have to respond.
> 
> Let's get back to discussing radios!
> 
> Alan
> km4ba
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