[MilCom] RE: 'On Scene" Alternatives for the Hobbyists??!!

[Larry Van Horn]

Ken wrote:
>Also I'm somewhat surprised Larry to part of your response...  I'm not
(and
>I think most of the lurkers & some of the posters here) trying to be
one of
>those erosion of rights/government conspiracy activists BUT do believe
that
>the spontaneous "on scene" activities are one of the enjoyable aspects
of
>the military communications monitoring hobby...  

And I absolutely agree Ken. I am not saying that you shouldn't go out
and 
spot, duh! I am replying to all the complaints about people being
treated 
poorly by base security personnel, I am explaining to you and others
that 
enjoy this facet of our hobby the reality we face in today's security
climate.

You wrote:
>Times have changed and adaptation to these changes needs to be met!

And that is exactly my point. In years past you probably never got even
a 
second look by base personnel even if you sat at the fence for hours and

spotted. But you will now.  That Ken is reality and you can post and
complain 
but that reality will not change.  So what I am saying is instead of
just 
"showing up at the fence" do some  PR work on your own. 

Go to the gate. Every gate has a security presence and the main gate 
usually has the base security headquarters. Some gates will not allow 
civilian traffic through it and will send you to the gate that handles
that 
function (which is usually the base main gate). Ask permission of the
folks 
there. Let them know you are harmless. 

What I wouldn't do is roll in there hot with binoculars, cameras and
scanners 
blazing. If you look stupid (scanners on the belt and binocular-cameras
hanging 
around your neck) and act stupid (scanner on), you will be dismissed
probably 
out of cause. Want to really embarrass yourself, stand there in the
security 
office and your scanner goes off on  their freq at the same time their
radio does. 
Nothing like reinforcing to the  folks at base security that you are
listening to 
them  as well as their base aircraft.  The sad part is I have seen all
this first 
hand, its is true and  has happened.  I hope you get the picture.

>We are looking for a practical/operational means of enjoying the total
aspects 
>of the milcom monitoring hobby while yet not causing a problem for
security 
>forces tofocus on us rather than a real threat!!!....  

And that is my point. If you sneak up to the fence and don't announce
your 
presence, listening to their aircraft freqs and security freqs, and you
have a 
camera and/or binoculars, sorry folks you are a threat. If security
knows you 
are there, you have permission  to be there, and you have the name of
that 
person who gave that permission, or even better you have it in writing, 
you are no longer a threat.

If you don't want to be hassled -- ask permission!

And if the answer is no, be prepared to accept that. If you don't you
might
find yourself on the wrong side in a federal magistrate court.

And make sure you ask permission each and every time you go out to spot 
unless you have permission in writing from base security. You want the
security 
folks to know you are there. 

If you always get a no answer, try one of these two options. 

First I would write or call the Public Affairs Office. I would again
explain what 
you are doing and agree to abide by what ever rules they establish. If
they 
say no camera, they mean no cameras. Photography is a serious issue in 
and around bases and even members of a base can't get on the flight line

with a Kodak. They have to ask permission as well.

Second, if the PAO gets you a negative response or blows you off then
I would call or write the Base Security Officer directly. In plain
English explain 
what you want to do and ask for permission.  If nothing is already in
place rule 
wise, he will either grant permission, turn you down, or take it to the
next base
Department Head meeting for higher up approval.

What ever the decision is, it is what it is. You need to live with it.
If the answer 
is no and you continue your activity covertly, it is only a matter of
time before
you will pay a price.

>Perhaps you are right that WE can't do anything to change this
situation 
>at this time...

Again I will remind you what you wrote:
>Times have changed and adaptation to these changes needs to be met!

>BUT maybe someone on the list can come up with some 
>additional ideas OR be in a position to make some changes!!!

I think the positive change will be the image you present to the folks
at the 
base. You present a negative image or if you give them a bunch of crap,
no
one, especially you, will like the outcome.

Tis the times we live in. And with this I will bug out of this thread. I
have
posted some ideas for you to think about. Hopefully you will take them
to 
heart and if you don't, I hope the next time I am on your base I don't
see
you in the security lock up awaiting a fed magistrate. If you use some
common sense, civility, and courtesy, I think you will have a better and

pleasant experience.

73 all and good hunting,

Larry Van Horn, N5FPW USN (Ret)
Monitoring Times Assistant Editor and Milcom Columnist
WUN Military/Government Newsletter Columnist
Grove Enterprises Technical Support Department
Telephone: V-828-837-9200/F-828-837-2216/800-438-8155