COMMENT-- SCANNER + CAMERA = TERRORIST!!??! Re: [MilCom] OFF-TOPIC -Photographers Say Police Harass Them

[Bill Jones]

> As one who served in military security unit during one of my shore duty
> tours, let me boil this down in some real simple terms. 
> If someone was hanging around the fence at your house with a scanner,
> still or video camera, binoculars, & note pad/pen, what would you do. I
> would call the cops!

As someone who used to work on a high security base (ie double fences with 
razor wire and deadly force authorized), I understand what you are saying. One 
time in fact I called the MPs because someone was taking pictures of the 
building I worked in, despite signs saying that this wasn't permitted (this was 
pre-9/11).  Turns out that after the MPs surrounded the guy and questioned him, 
he turned out to be a co-worker that I didn't know at the time.  I was a bit 
embarrased for turning in a co-worker, but I was convinced that I did the right 
thing. 

> The smart person would go to the security office and ask in person to
> watch, photograph and listen to the aircraft. If the answer is no go on
> and accept it. Slinking around the fence line would like suspicious at
> my house and it surely does at a military installation.
> 
> Just remember it is much easier to ask for permission than for
> forgiveness. 

This makes sense, however it isn't realistic.  Pre 9/11, when many bases were 
open to the public, you could go to the security offices, but now, you can't 
even get on base to go to the security office, and neither can you get through 
by email.  I have tried to ask for such permission via email, ie through the 
public affairs people, asking if there was any place where the public could go 
to get a view of planes taking off, and although my email was answered, my 
question was not answered, so I was left with the task of finding a suitable  
place off base to watch by myself, although my choice of locations apparently 
wasn't suitable to the authorities.  :-) 
    What you suggest above, would seem to be an ideal solution to the 
situation, if the military bases would make it possible.  Ie, if they would 
designate areas where hobbiests could go, then people could do as you suggest, 
and they would know who those people with the cameras and scanners were, plus 
they would have an extra layer of security, because the scanner enthusiasts 
would most likely report anyone acting suspicious, helping their efforts.  But 
as the situations exists now, hobbiests don't have any guidance for what they 
are permitted to do, and where they can do it.
 
> Now can we please drop this nonsense. This topic crops up way to often
> on this list and no matter how it is phrased, the answer will always
> remain the same. We live in different times and procedures are different
> and that is reality. We are going to learn to adapt or take up another
> hobby. Now it is time to return this channel to its normal traffic
> please.

  I don't agree that it is nonsense.  From what I have read of this thread, I 
don't think that this discussion was at all off base.  I don't think it was 
critical of the security measures, and it was realistic about us living in 
"different times", and was pretty much just a heads up that since we are living 
in different times, that we have to learn to "adapt" as you say. Ie rather than 
having people who have never tried monitoring or taking pictures near potential 
targets just assuming that they can do this and going in and making the 
security people nervous, I think it is fair to warn them that they should 
consider that what they are doing might be taken as being suspicious.
   I know that there is a bit of paranoia these days associated with our hobby, 
some of it justified, some not.  I know that once I was monitoring and taking 
pictures of low flying planes from my own back yard, when the plane I was 
photographing turned back, circled,  and made several passes over my location, 
while telling ATC that he was "looking for the guy" but couldn't find him.  I 
was convinced that they were looking for me. Turns out that they were looking 
for a small private plane that had drifted across the border into Canada, then 
re-entered the states in a manner that was suspicious, and they called the 
planes I was watching to look for the private plane. So my paranoia that day 
wasn't justified, but other times it has been justified.
    Anyway, it is unfortunate that it has come to a situation where the people 
who are the biggest supporters of the military are unfortunately at the top of 
the list for making the military nervous, and visa-versa.  It would be nice if 
there could be some degree of communication enabled between the military and 
the hobbiests, because I think it could be beneficial to both.  

   
 
 



-- 
Bill Jones   Sweden, Maine wejones at megalink dot net
http://www.megalink.net/~wejones
http://www.megalink.net/~wejones/wwii.html 
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