AW: [Meteor-Scatter] MS Procedures - back to the discussion
Tony Read
[email protected]
Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:39:59 -0000
Hello Hans
The real problem for me as a G station is this, with the increase in traffic
(which is nice to see) there is usually somebody calling CQ on the 2nd
period therefore it is impossible to hear any dx station calling. If I do
manage to hear someone and they are not using the qsy qrg procedure then it
is not nice for me to call over the other G station.
It has happen to me many times some of the Scandinavian station call 2nd
period therefore it limits what I can work. This I think is were the cluster
can come in handy to ask the dx station to qso.
To my mind if we all called cq with a qsy qrg then the problem has been
limited and it could be possible to have qsos in the Wrong period without
causing others problems and without having to use the cluster.
You are right we need to address this quickly.
All the best see you on the ON4KST Chat page
73 Tony G0GMS
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Hans B��l
Sent: 07 January 2004 22:11
To: QSL. Net-Meteor-Scatter
Subject: AW: AW: [Meteor-Scatter] MS Procedures - back to the discussion
Hallo Ping jockey's,
with great interest I'm following the up comming discussion about the FSK441
random frequency problems.
Even there are a lot of topics which should be discussed also please let
concentrate
one the first and most importand one, the "Who-When-Where" MS calling
question.
The topics concerning DX-Cluster, MS-on-chat, HSCW and so on shouldn't be
mixed in.
If we do have to much time, we could open a new whineing round how unfair it
is
against the old MS-Dinos to work a multible of squares within a shorter time
than in the "good old day's".
I started MS work when HSCW speed reeched the 600LPM limit and I do not
forget
countless 2 hour SSB skeds with 0 or max 1 ping which was frustration pure.
I completely underline Bernds, DF2ZC, statement, not to look back on these
day
with wet eyes as it was really damned hard work.
Now back to the main Topic, the "Who-When-Where" MS calling question.
It's just about two years ago when the procedures including the fixing of
the
random frequency was discussed in a similar divergent way. We should try
to learn out of that example and collect and combine this time the positive
proposals
and not insist on lonesome oppions or the self defined rules where central
Europe
(who the hell define that?) has always to use the second periode (..such a
bullshit!)
This oppinion could only be in the brains of these OM's who never ever had
read the
IARU Region 1 recommendations for MS.
They just repeat that, what other non-readers have told them.
In the last days two main proposals have been made:
1.) Let's define a second MS random frequency (one for the first and one for
the second periode)
2.) Let's consequently apply the "CQ XXX CALL" method
My oppinion about these proposals is:
to 1.) I personal don't beleave that a second random frequency realy will
work, as we
already have some experience with that.
Several years ago, when the beacons still had been in the range from
144.800-145.00MHz
there was a second MS-SSB-random frequency at 144.400.
But what happend: just a vanishing amount of OM'S went up from
144.200 to 144.400.
While on 144.200 one mega burst after the other appeared, at the same
time on 144.400
you could listen to the white noise.
And additional, from where do I know on which frequency are the
interesting stations I'm
looking for. According to Murphy's law, I will be on the wrong one!
The result will be, that most of the stations will concentrate again
on the 144.370, to be
on the save side, like in the case of 144.440 and 144.200MHz SSB
random frequency.
to 2.) I beleave it is the job of all experienced MS workes to tell the
newcomers how they should
work. Constant reference on the IARU Region 1 recommendation for MS
will pay of.
Of course, it will not help in any case but this is the only
parctical solution. And by the
the way, most transceivers allow to make QSY not only a few KHz up
and down the .370.
Especially downwards where is a lot of space which could be used.
This procedure ensures also that none get's the feeling he is on the
wrong frequency as you
could get if you had been on 144.400 years ago....
By the way, the BCC MS-Contest rules while the last year Geminides
supported this procedure
very well and it works great.
I admit that I also had QSO's on the .370 but what should I do, if
the so interesting station
is calling just "CQ" without QSY frequency and in addition uses the
"wrong" periode. As you
probably kown: The G' + DL's do have just the "licence" for 2.
periode ;-))
All the mentioned problems only appear while the main showers and could be
neglected outside these showers,
but on the other side if these rules will be not applied outside the main
showers who will give then starting shot
to switch over to the "shower procedure".
Therefore I plead for a constant application of that rules.
Look at OH8K while they had been in KP44. They called CQ .355 on .370 and
also stations like me, which didn't had a sked,
could work them on random easyly over 2067Km which would be probably
difficult to impossible on .370.
Closing I beleave, that we do not have to invent the wheel again, we just
have to apply the given recomendation
and we will have all more fun.
And please don't start whineing that some stations do not or still not apply
that rules. If the overwhelming majority
will tell them how to operate, they will adapt, be sure.
Sorry for my limited english, but I assume you will get what I mean.
vy73 Hans, DL9MCC
********************************************************************
Hans Boessl
DL9MCC, JN58UA
mailto:[email protected]
http://www.qsl.net/dl9mcc
********************************************************************
-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]Im Auftrag von Franz van
Velzen
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 7. Januar 2004 07:43
An: [email protected]
Betreff: AW: AW: [Meteor-Scatter] MS Procedures - back to the discussion
Hi Sebastian and others,
Your message gives an excellent example of how far the discussiion has
drifted
away from the original one about MS procedures.
The issue is that, due to the heavily increased activity on MS using WSJT,
the current
procedure does not help. In fact, as we already have seen, in densely
populated areas
there is a major issue to HEAR stations calling on the random QRG. We need a
solution for this
problem.
We should be glad that there is something as WSJT, in fact it shows us two
important things:
1. there is still room for inovation in our hobby
2. there are still HAm who do like to work DX, rather than use the local
repeater or digipeater
and as a result, the past two years has seen an enormous increase of the use
of sproadic meteorites
which learned the general public that in fact all year long, one can make
successfull qso's using
MS and even more so, using QRP (<25 Watts) to complete qso's over 1400+ km.
The often heard argument that "in previous" days "good old style" CW was
good enough and never
caused problems, compares one to one to using horse carts to commute rather
than modern cars. We do
not want and we can't to go back to previous, as we would simply ignore the
development of technology
and the very fact that humanity has a drive to develope. In fact, one could
wonder if HSCW is not too modern,
or even CW is too modern... So why not give up HAM radio at all ? That would
be really going back to the roots ?
No seriously, that is too extreme...
I am glad that CW (I presume HSCW, using HW or SW to reduce it to a readable
speed) was fun to you. I myself made
quite some MS QSO's using SSB, and that was fun too. But I do like WSJT a
lot, and I do use it intensively, as
do many others - and the number is still increasing as it gives so many
people the same fun as you have had
using CW. So, also the difficulties are increasing and we need a solution to
these problems. That is the
discussion.
And in short, I do see two options :
1. start using different QRG's, one for each period, which need ammending
IARU 1 procedures
2. Increase self spotting on the cluster. (that is NOT to make cluster
QSO's)
73 - Franz
OE3FVU
-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]Im Auftrag von DG5CST,
Sebastian
Gesendet: Sonntag, 04. J�nner 2004 23:03
An: [email protected]
Betreff: Re: AW: [Meteor-Scatter] MS Procedures
Hi all,
I often wondered if there is no way to put up something like a wsjt filter
for the cluster. I began with meteorscatter (good old style of course) even
in those days when wsjt barely came up. For me it was a great fun and also a
good way to learn CW while using it and nowadays you have pray to god while
calling cq in random mode, because each and everyone is on wsjt mode.
Let's think about it.. and maybe someone will find back to the roots.
73 Sebastian
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