[Lowfer] WSPR overload

K2ORS k2ors at verizon.net
Wed Feb 6 17:46:24 EST 2013 

Pat,
> but they need to be reformatted and I don't have a legal copy of windows 
> to run them with. I hate to paye 175 for an outdated copy of windows

   You sound like a good candidate for Linux!

73 Warren



----- Original Message ----- 
From: <pbunn at patbunn.com>
To: "Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, &amp; UK) and MedFer bands" 
<lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Lowfer] WSPR overload


> Jay,
>
> I wish I could use the Delta 44. I have a couple of decent older computers 
> but they need to be reformatted and I don't have a legal copy of windows 
> to run them with. I hate to paye 175 for an outdated copy of windows.
>
> I run my audio into a little Mackie 402 mixer before it goes into the 
> computer so I have fairly good control. I see that some of the SDR radio 
> manufacturers recommend external firewire soundcard but my desktop doesn't 
> have firewire either.
>
>
> Pat
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: jrusgrove at comcast.net
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 7:56 PM
> To: Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, &amp;UK) and MedFer bands
> Subject: [Lowfer] WSPR overload
>
> Pat
>
> Said I was going to change the subject line last time ... doh!
>
> I have been using Delta 44s exclusively for quite a few years now and have 
> tried others but keep
> coming back. BTW, all the machines here are older Dell 4600s ... 2.8 GHz, 
> 1-2 g Ram running XP SP2.
> Newer machines don't have PCI slots? Shows how out of touch I am.
>
> You've probably already looked into this ... but just in case ... make 
> sure that the audio going
> into your sound card isn't overdriving it. If you find that you're just 
> barely cracking the computer
> volume slider and have romping stomping volume into the application try 
> reducing the receiver audio
> output. One of the best parts of the Delta 44 is the M audio utility. 
> Being able to see input and
> output levels on the bar graphs in relation to clipping levels, ability to 
> select input levels and
> select/see the sampling rates requested by the application, etc is all 
> useful information. Cheap on
> board audio cards don't tell you much of anything ;~(
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "pat bunn" <pbunn at patbunn.com>
> To: "Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, &amp;UK) and MedFer bands" 
> <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] WSPR-15 tonite
>
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> You mentioned one item that makes be very suspicious, the sound card. It 
>> is a Dell that came with the new computer. It calibrates very well with 
>> respect to frequency but it is a "junk" type card. I used to use a Delta 
>> 44, but they don't fit in the new machines so mine is laying in a pile of 
>> parts somewhere around here. I bought a $125 external Soundblaster USB 
>> card last year but I think I read that USB cards don't work all that well 
>> either. Anyone got a solution for a quality soundcard that fits in the 
>> latest Windows machines. After I bought the computer, I went to the Flex 
>> Radio site and to my dismay, they were recommending the Delta 44 card for 
>> their products and really didn't recommend much else. I haven't looked 
>> lately.
>>
>> I had no noise blanker etc turned on.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pat
>> N4LTA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/6/2013 1:46 PM, jrusgrove at comcast.net wrote:
>>> I've been watching this thread for a while now ... here's my 2 cents. 
>>> BTW, I've changed the subject line to one more in line with the 
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> No, Pat, I don't think you have a screw loose ;~) ... don't forget I'm 
>>> in the 'near field' of this signal and see 'crushing' levels as well ... 
>>> even with directional antennas pointed the other direction!
>>>
>>> First a comment about receiving setups. It really shouldn't make any 
>>> difference whether one uses the R-75 for direct reception or a setup 
>>> using the converter ahead of the receiver ... at least as far as WSPR 
>>> overload is concerned. The 200 Hz WSPR bandwidth is contained within the 
>>> boundaries of both the R-75 roofing and i-f filters. The overload is 
>>> occuring within this area. In terms of the likelyhood of what's causing 
>>> the problem I'd guess ... E probe (not likely), converter (not likely, 
>>> but not completely ruled out), R75 (not likely especially since the K3 
>>> produced similar results), A/D (possible depending on wherther it is a 
>>> quality external sound card or 'onboard' audio junk) and software 
>>> (probably the most likely). This assumes that no noise blanking, noise 
>>> reduction, clipping, compression etc is in use - these are known bad 
>>> things that cause overload.
>>>
>>> If there are visible 'phantom' products in the waterfall (as I sometimes 
>>> see here) this overload is probably some sort of IM or 'image', and it 
>>> should be possible to make two tone measurements to determine the 
>>> offending component by inserting attenuation between each of the major 
>>> system component and observing the overload level.
>>>
>>> Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  WE2XGR/2
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "pbunn" <pbunn at matrixei.com>
>>> To: "Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, &amp; UK) and MedFer bands" 
>>> <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] WSPR-15 tonite
>>>
>>>
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> There seems to be a problem with strong signals and WSPR.  Eric has 
>>>> emailed me and seems to think that the problem is with my R75 but I 
>>>> don't think so. I realize that an R75 has poor strong signal 
>>>> performance but I have a very strong receive converter ahead of my R75. 
>>>> I use a mini circuits +17 DBM with a 7 pole filter in front and a GPS 
>>>> disciplined LO followed by a good diplexer and a Norton lossless FB 
>>>> post amp. Last night I could clearly hear a weak XSH/6 QRS3 in the 
>>>> background when Bob was transmitting. I made an audio recording of it. 
>>>> Bobs signal was not blocking.
>>>>
>>>> My WSPR panel gain had to be set  to where I had no green bar at all in 
>>>> order to decode Jay and Eric. The background was jet black.
>>>>
>>>> I have a K3 that I could use as a receiver but in tests I see little 
>>>> difference. Jay asked me this weekend why I was transmitting WSPR -15 
>>>> at 468 KHz and I responded to "get away from the strong signals"
>>>>
>>>> I think he thinks that I have a loose screw, but from my experience, if 
>>>> you have powerful signals in the band pass or nearby, WSPR does not 
>>>> perform well.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the comment. This sure is fun. More fun than I have had in a 
>>>> long time with radio.
>>>>
>>>> Pat
>>>> N4LTA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: lowfer-bounces at mailman.qth.net 
>>>> [mailto:lowfer-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of John Andrews
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 9:45 AM
>>>> To: Discussion of the Lowfer (US, European, &amp; UK) and MedFer bands
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] WSPR-15 tonite
>>>>
>>>> Pat,
>>>>
>>>> I had something similar with Jay last evening. Very strong signal, and 
>>>> several missed decodes. At least one was in a period where XGR/6 was 
>>>> off. Was running AGC on the R75, so it certainly wasn't a receiver 
>>>> overload issue.
>>>>
>>>> John, W1TAG
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 5, 2013, at 10:58 PM, <pbunn at patbunn.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have been running WSPR-15 since last night. When Gary noted that
>>>>> someone was in the middle with a drifting signal, I went out to the
>>>>> shop to see if I could see the signa
>>>>>
>>>>> What I saw was a surprise. I have not touched any gain setting since
>>>>> last night and have been getting good decodes until recently.
>>>>>
>>>>> The screen shot shows what I found and shows where I reduced gain to
>>>>> the point that very little noise is showing ( and very likely no weak
>>>>> signal would be seen)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The screen can be seen at
>>>>> http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/tt286/n4lta/wsprscrn_zps392e4d37.gi
>>>>> f
>>>>>
>>>>> The screen is split between when I first found it first smeared in
>>>>> red, my first gain reduction and then a further adjustment.
>>>>>
>>>>> The far left is Bobs WSPR 2 signal
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no noise here tonite to speak of. The S meter on the R75 is
>>>>> below
>>>>> S1 (no bars on the S meter) and goes to S4 when Bobs signal comes on.
>>>>>
>>>>> The gain setting was initially set last night and worked fine all
>>>>> night with numerous decodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Something is unusual with WSPR and strong signals, and I am pretty
>>>>> certain it is not my receiving equipment. I can hear the WD2XSG/6
>>>>> beacon in the background at the same time Bob is transmitting. He is
>>>>> not blocking the radio front end.
>>>>>
>>>>> Pat
>>>>> N4LTA
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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