[Lowfer] Antenna Questions

Zack Widup w9sz.zack at gmail.com
Thu Mar 5 09:22:52 EST 2009 

So what happened to Lyle? He's obviously not around in LF circles at all
anymore.

73, Zack W9SZ


On 3/4/09, Bill Ashlock <ashlockw at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Warren,
>
>
>
> You couldn't be more wrong! To my knowledge he had no desire to plunge into
> high power LF operations like you. Too bad you didn't visit him on his hobby
> farm back in those prime LowFer days as I did. Perhaps your opinion of Part
> 15 operations might be different. To him 1 watt was all that was needed to
> conduct the experimentation necessary to verify a theory. Couldn't have been
> a more intelligent, sincere, and dedicated person, not only promoting the
> art, but helping out anyone needing assistance. A look at is his Web site or
> just Googling "Lyle Kohler" tells it all.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 22:35:20 -0500
> > From: wd2xgj at gmail.com
> > To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Antenna Questions
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > Thanks for reminding me about Lyle Kohler. I seem to recall that
> > Lyle gave up his Part 15 activity a few years ago in anticipation of a
> > US 137kHz ham band. When the US 137 band didn't materialize Lyle gave
> > up and left LF operating.
> >
> > Thanks for making my point for me!
> > --
> > 73 Warren K2ORS
> > WD2XGJ
> > WD2XSH/23
> > WE2XEB/2
> > WE2XGR/1
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Bill Ashlock <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > "All-in-all, the Part 15 stuff has set back the development of amateur
> > > LF in this country"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Warren, you really know how to hurt a guy. And one that has been
> pivotal in your establishment a strong reputation in Part 5 loop
> transmitting. Also I wonder what Lyle Kohler and other Part 15 pioneers
> would feel about your comment? In my case check out just about any antenna
> text book written over the last 100 years and it will state that
> transmitting loop antennas at low frequency have no practical use.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bill Ashlock
> > >
> > >> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 12:21:29 -0500
> > >> From: wd2xgj at gmail.com
> > >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] Antenna Questions
> > >>
> > >> Jim,
> > >>
> > >> Without a doubt go for a Part 5 license!!!
> > >> A lot (but not all) of the miracle reports from "Part 15" beacons are
> > >> from beacons that are stretching the definition of Part 15.
> > >> For example, there is a guy in CT who runs 4-5 watts out (maybe more)
> > >> on 512kHz into who knows what kind of antenna (certainly not 3m long -
> > >> the legal limit!) There are also people who stretch the definition of
> > >> a "15 meter" antenna into a 200' circumference loop, the rationale
> > >> being that it would fit into a 15mx15m cylinder - I believe the FCC
> > >> was asked for clarification and there response was that the antenna
> > >> should have a total conductor length of 15m! (not 60m). The rules
> > >> also force you into doing dumb things like placing your transmitter at
> > >> the antenna feedpoint rather than in the hamshack where it belongs.
> > >>
> > >> The losses are so great and the noise levels are so high that you
> > >> need all the power you can muster, especially if you want to do
> > >> something more than just beacon all the time. (Piss-weaker's 1st Law -
> > >> the weaker they are, the longer they talk!) I believe it was Mike
> > >> Dennison G3XDV who said that "if you haven't had a fire you're not a
> > >> real LF experimenter" If you go the one watt DC input
> > >> 15m antenna route the best you can hope for are beacon reports while
> > >> running QRSS (or possibly WOLF) - the data rate will be too slow for
> > >> a real-time QSO unless you live within a short distance of another
> > >> experimenter. You will need to run some real soup to make QSOs over
> > >> any distance reliably.
> > >>
> > >> All-in-all, the Part 15 stuff has set back the development of amateur
> > >> LF in this country, and I can prove it.
> > >> If you look at the amount of activity generated in the U.K. in the
> > >> first few years after they were granted a 2200m ham band by any
> > >> measure, (number of active stations, number of contacts, number of
> > >> new circuits and innovations) it far exceeds everything done in
> > >> the US after decades of decades of Part 15 experimentation. Ideally
> > >> we should have LF/MF ham bands since the Part 5 process is
> > >> slow and cumbersome, and relatively few people make the effort to
> > >> get a Part 5.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> 73 Warren K2ORS
> > >> WD2XGJ
> > >> WD2XSH/23
> > >> WE2XEB/2
> > >> WE2XGR/1
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Jim <w4jbm at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > >> > I'm hoping to have a LowFER beacon on from West Georgia in a couple
> of weeks.
> > >> > Actually had hoped it would be on by now, but a bout with the flu
> and a lot
> > >> > of travel with a new job has interfered with the fun.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm thinking of building both a vertical and a loop antenna just so
> I can
> > >> > tinker with both styles. We have 20 acres and there are parts that
> are
> > >> > heavily wooded. Also the portion near the house is not the highest
> part of
> > >> > the property (but not down in a hole either).
> > >> >
> > >> > My shack is in the basement and about 50 feet to the side is a
> fairly good
> > >> > sized (probably 50 x 50) pen where we keep the dogs when we don't
> want them
> > >> > running the ranch. It is constructed with t-posts and welded wire.
> > >> >
> > >> > There are a few short trees to the back of the pen, but basically
> I've got
> > >> > tall trees on both sides of the pen with a clear shot across. The
> trees are
> > >> > pines and they sway heavily in the wind.
> > >> >
> > >> > For the vertical, what I'm thinking is running about 30 feet up and
> then
> > >> > having a T at the top with maybe 20 feet on each side. (Staying
> within the 15
> > >> > meter total, just throwing out rough numbers. But also using what I
> guess
> > >> > some consider a liberal interpretation that you measure the radius
> at the
> > >> > top, not the diameter.)
> > >> >
> > >> > One question I have is, does it really matter if the 30 feet are
> "vertical",
> > >> > or could they slope and still have the T for top loading? I'm
> thinking I'd be
> > >> > ahead to slope towards the corner of the dog pen so I can use the
> fence wire
> > >> > as the ground instead of having it all drop down in the middle of
> the pen.
> > >> >
> > >> > Also, is there value in having a loading coil up where the T is
> formed in
> > >> > addition to the coil used for matching at the bottom? I was going to
> build
> > >> > the insulator of the T out of something like 4" PVC and wind a foot
> or so of
> > >> > coil on it in addition to using it for mechanical strength.
> > >> >
> > >> > One the loop, there are a pair of trees about 40 feet apart and
> probably 60
> > >> > feet tall or so on one side of the dog pen. I'd like something easy
> to
> > >> > install and work on and I've had my share of frustration with
> slingshots,
> > >> > bows and such. So what I was thinking was getting around 50 feet of
> PVC pipe
> > >> > to put at each end. Basically I'd hook the side of the loop to the
> PVC pipe
> > >> > and then strap the pipe to the tree. I was going to try to get the
> bottom of
> > >> > the loop about 10 feet off the ground.
> > >> >
> > >> > If I went that route, would there be any advantage to having what
> amounted to
> > >> > loading coils in the side of a loop? I could either have a gentle
> wrap (a
> > >> > turn a foot or so) up the entire length or I could put in more
> > >> > traditional "coils" bottom, middle, and/or top. I was thinking of
> using 2"
> > >> > PVC (because I've got some handy) with a gentle loop up the entire
> length. I
> > >> > have no particular reason for going that route, it just somehow
> strikes me as
> > >> > an interesting thing to try.
> > >> >
> > >> > I've also thought that I might use two or three conductors up the
> PVC in
> > >> > parallel to reduce the resistance in that portion of the loop.
> > >> >
> > >> > At this point, I'm just kind of tinkering. I figure I'll try a
> couple of
> > >> > different things that are fairly "low effort" and then put more
> effort into
> > >> > the approach that seems to get the best results.
> > >> >
> > >> > I have got most of the hardware built. The only thing I need to do
> is build
> > >> > a "driver" circuit that will take the output from the crystal
> oscillator out
> > >> > over some coax to the final which will be at the antenna location.
> Right now
> > >> > I can drive the final with three or four feet of coax, but need
> something
> > >> > with more umph to drive 30 or 40 feet of coax. Keyer is a PICBeacon
> with 5
> > >> > wpm, QRSS-10, QRSS-30, or QRSS-60 being selectable.
> > >> >
> > >> > Any antenna suggestions would be welcome. And like I said, looking
> more to
> > >> > tinker instead of for the definitive "this is the best" right now.
> With all
> > >> > the trees, I'm thinking the loop may be where I end up, but who
> knows. After
> > >> > all, that's how we justify going for Part 5 licenses from the FCC at
> a later
> > >> > point, isn't it? :-)
> > >> >
> > >> > 73 de
> > >> > Jim W4JBM
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.geocities.com/w4jbm
> > >> >
> > >> > "With a soldering iron in one hand, a schematic in the
> > >> > other, and a puzzled look on his face..."
> > >> >
> > >> > Working the world from the New Dog Iron Ranch!
> > >> > ______________________________________________________________
> > >> > Lowfer mailing list
> > >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > >> > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > >> >
> > >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > >> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >> >
> > >> ______________________________________________________________
> > >> Lowfer mailing list
> > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > >> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > >>
> > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Lowfer mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Lowfer mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Lowfer mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

More information about the Lowfer mailing list