[Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
rojomn
[email protected]
Fri, 9 Jan 2004 06:26:14 -0600
Gil, W0MN http://webpages.charter.net/gbaron
N 44.082056 W 92.513024 1050'
Hierro Candente, Batir de repente
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On
> Behalf Of Mel
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 10:15 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: [Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
>
>
> I use Writelog for serious contesting... But even Writelog has some
> confusion about Canadian multipliers... Quebec is shown as PQ in the
> Multipliers window... Though the program wisely accepts PQ or QC for
> Quebec... Even that's an indication of how confused things have become!
>
> If Dennis worked on streamlining the data entry and added a band map,
The data entry would indeed require a complete redesign, and a TRLOG/N1MM
entry sends message type operation (which even WriteLog does not have) would
be needed.
It still would like a reasonable way to score contests unless somebody
provided contest configurations as dong any of that yourself is just way too
complex.
Most of us are far from serious contesters, that is true but most probably
like to think they are during their operating time and like a program that
completes the illusion.
> Logic would actually be pretty good for anything short of a real serious
> contesting.... Which is probably the case for 80-90% of contest
> participants...
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of rojomn
> > Sent: January 8, 2004 20:44
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: RE: [Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
> >
> >
> > The problem is that you are trying to put the square peg in
> > the round hole. Logic is not designed to be a contest logger.
> > Every contest could have a different list that is totally
> > unrelated to the country codes, post office codes, states ,
> > islands or anything else. Logic has one table of valid values
> > and it is not related to a contest name. Just forget using
> > Logic as a contest logger is the best thing you can do. Get a
> > free logger like N1MM logger or pay for WriteLog ( I would
> > use N1MM myself) and your problems are solved. Use Logic for
> > what it is good at, general logging.
> >
> >
> > Gil, W0MN http://webpages.charter.net/gbaron
> > N 44.082056 W 92.513024 1050'
> > Hierro Candente, Batir de repente
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [email protected]
> > > [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > > Behalf Of Bradford J. Williams - N8GLS
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 7:23 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: RE: [Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Mel,
> > >
> > > That's pretty much my feeling as well.
> > >
> > > I wasn't trying to ruffle the masses, and this dead horse can't be
> > > beat anymore, so I think I'll just go back to messing with LOGic to
> > > see how I can get the multipliers to handle correctly from
> > a contest
> > > logform.
> > >
> > > 73, de Brad
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [email protected]
> > > [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > > Behalf Of Mel
> > > Sent: Thursday, 08 January, 2004 7:37 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: RE: [Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
> > >
> > >
> > > "as it has not been a problem in many years, and is well ingrained
> > > among thousands of contesters."
> > >
> > > Well that's complete moose manure!!! I lose a LOT of time every
> > > contest explaining that the multiplier for Quebec is QC and not PQ,
> > > which the ARRL used to use ( and did change because I used
> > to have to
> > > explain why it was PQ and not QC ) And I've seen long
> > discussions on
> > > reflectors of people trying to understand why there are 14
> > provinces.
> > >
> > > Since they used the postal abbreviations for the US
> > states... It would
> > > be a courtesy if they would do the same for Canada, as THAT is what
> > > most people expect. And using NWT for NT because they used NT as a
> > > section identifier is really confusing. I'm sure their
> > heart is in the
> > > right place, but I wish they would straighten this out once and for
> > > all!
> > >
> > > To sum up... They should use postal codes for Provinces... There
> > > should be 13, and they can use whatever they like for
> > Sections... If
> > > they insist on 14 divisions for some contest... DON"T CALL THEM
> > > PROVINCES!!!
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bradford J.
> > > > Williams - N8GLS
> > > > Sent: January 8, 2004 19:06
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: RE: [Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Bob,
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, but I think were all beating a dead horse. The
> > responses I
> > > > got back from the ARRL stack-up like this:
> > > >
> > > > The ARRL Sections have nothing to do with contests.
> > > > Several contests "conveniently" use the ARRL Section list as
> > > > multipliers. The multiplier abbreviations will be
> > "whatever works".
> > > > There is nothing in the rules that says they have to follow US or
> > > > Canadian postal abbreviations. There is no reason to
> > change anything
> > > > as it has not been a problem in many years, and is well ingrained
> > > > among thousands of contesters.
> > > >
> > > > So, it boils down to this. In the eyes of the ARRL, there are 14
> > > > Provinces in Canada, period......forget the fact that
> > there are 13,
> > > > it doesn't matter because they are "just" multipliers.
> > Now, there
> > > > are three ARRL contests that treat Canadian "provinces" as
> > > > multipliers (I should have said ARRL's "view" of what Canada's
> > > > provinces are), they are ARRL Int'l DX, 10-Meter, and
> > RTTY Round-up.
> > > > For these contests, the multipliers are AB, BC, LB, MB,
> > NB, NF, NS,
> > > > NU, NWT, ON, PEI, QC, SK, and YT.
> > > >
> > > > Now, this leaves those contests that "conveniently" use the ARRL
> > > > Sections as multipliers, they are the 160 Meter contest and the
> > > > November Sweepstakes, for them the multipliers are AB,
> > BC, MAR, MB,
> > > > NL, NT, ON, QC, and SK.
> > > >
> > > > So for any other contests, your at the mercy of yourself, your
> > > > logging/contest software maker, or a reflector like this
> > one to find
> > > > out how to handle the inconsistent use of multiplier rules and
> > > > abbreviations. For LOGic I will undo what I did last week and go
> > > > back to VE Provinces that match the above. That way at least the
> > > > major contest logforms will still work.
> > > >
> > > > Until I or someone else can figure a way to pull multiple
> > variations
> > > > out of a list of valid values I'll wait to do anything else.
> > > >
> > > > 73, de Brad, N8GLS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > [mailto:[email protected]]On
> > > > Behalf Of R Johnson
> > > > Sent: Thursday, 08 January, 2004 4:43 PM
> > > > To: [email protected]
> > > > Cc: [email protected]
> > > > Subject: [Logic] Canadian Sect. and Mult. Confusion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Below are the extracts from the ARRL sponsored contests
> > showing the
> > > > CAN multipliers. These are taken from the Contest Rules
> > on the ARRL
> > > > Web Site.
> > > >
> > > > This lack of consistency is creating much confusion amongst
> > > > Contesters and the Authors of Contest Programs.
> > > >
> > > > I fail to see why we can not use the use the 13 multipliers as
> > > > defined by the standard CAN Postal abbreviations. NS (VE1), QC
> > > > (VE2), ON (VE3), MB (VE4), SK (VE5), AB (VE6), BC (VE7),
> > NT (VE8),
> > > > NB (VE9) NL (VO1,VO2), NU (VY�), YT (VY1), PE (VY2).
> > > >
> > > > Other contests such as RAC Canada Day, RAC Winter and
> > NCJ's NAQP and
> > > > Sprint all use the 10 Provinces and 3 Territories to give 13
> > > > multipliers.
> > > >
> > > > The League seems to be out of step with everyone else (MY
> > > > opinion) !!!! While they as the Contest Sponsors, can
> > define things
> > > > the way they want, but it sure would nice for all the logging
> > > > programs to be able to be able to use common definitions to
> > > > facilitate moving data between each other.
> > > >
> > > > 73
> > > > Bob, K1VU
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ARRL 10M 2003 (14 CAN Multipliers Defined)
> > > > 5.2.2. Canada [NB (VE1, 9), NS (VE1), QC (VE2), ON (VE3),
> > MB (VE4),
> > > > SK (VE5), AB (VE6), BC (VE7), NWT (VE8), NF, (VO1), LB (VO2)], YT
> > > > (VY1), PEI
> > > > (VY2) NU (VY�).
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ARRL 160M 2003 (Nothing Defined)
> > > > 5.2.1. Northern Territory (NT) multiplier includes the Northwest
> > > > (NWT), Yukon (VY1) and Nunavut (VY0) territories. Could
> > be 9 Mults
> > > > where MAR=NB,NS,PEI + NT=NT,NU,NW + NL=NF,LA PLUS
> > QC,ON,MB,SK,AB,BC
> > > > OR Could be 11 mults where NT=NT,NU,NW
> > > > + NL=NF,LA PLUS NS,QC,ON,MB,SK,AL,BC,NB,PE
> > > > OR
> > > > Could be 12 mults where NT=NT,NU,NW PLUS
> > > > NS,QC,ON,MB,SK,AL,BC,NB,NL,LA,PE
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ARRL Field Day 2003
> > > > nothing directly defined That I could find easily)
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ARRL International DX 2004 (14 CAN Multipliers Defined) 5.2.2. DX
> > > > stations: Sum of US states (except KH6/KL7), District of Columbia
> > > > (DC), and Canadian
> > > > provinces/territories: NB (VE1, 9), NS (VE1), QC (VE2),
> > ON (VE3), MB
> > > > (VE4), SK (VE5), AB (VE6), BC (VE7), NWT (VE8), NF (VO1),
> > LB (VO2),
> > > > NU (VY0), YT (VY1), PEI (VY2) worked per band (maximum of 63 per
> > > > band).
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ARRL November SS 2003 (Nothing Defined)
> > > > 5.1. Multiplier: Each ARRL Section and RAC Section plus
> > the Canadian
> > > > NT (Northern Territories - encompassing VE8 / VY1 /
> > > > VY0) with a maximum number of 80.
> > > >
> > > > 5.2. Final score: Multiply QSO points (two per QSO) by
> > the number of
> > > > ARRL/RAC sections (plus NT VE8/VY1/VY0).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Could be 9 Mults where MAR=NB,NS,PEI + NT=NT,NU,NW +
> > NL=NF,LA PLUS
> > > > QC,ON,MB,SK,AB,BC OR Could be 11 mults where NT=NT,NU,NW
> > > > + NL=NF,LA PLUS NS,QC,ON,MB,SK,AL,BC,NB,PE
> > > > OR
> > > > Could be 12 mults where NT=NT,NU,NW PLUS
> > > > NS,QC,ON,MB,SK,AL,BC,NB,NL,LA,PE
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > ARRL RTTY Roundup 2004 (14 CAN Multipliers Defined)
> > > > 5.2. Multipliers: Each US state (except KH6 and KL7) plus the
> > > > District of Columbia (DC), Canadian
> > provinces/territories: NB (VE1,
> > > > 9), NS (VE1), QC (VE2), ON (VE3), MB (VE4), SK (VE5), AB
> > (VE6), BC
> > > > (VE7), NWT (VE8), NF (VO1), LB (VO2), NU (VY�), YT (VY1),
> > PEI (VY2)
> > > > and each DXCC country. KH6 and KL7 count only as separate DXCC
> > > > countries
> > > >
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