[KYHAM] "gas" vs. diesel gen-sets (was BPL, Ham radio and the EOC)

Mike McCown mccown at prtcnet.org
Mon Oct 13 10:53:40 EDT 2008 

I  work for the state and we have several generators that use propane, 
they are always stone cold reliable.  they exercise for 1 hr a week on a 
timer.  The gasoline portables (Troybilt 7Ks from Lowes) we have are 
always iffy on whether they run or not. We need to implement a better 
exercise routine on them and to emphasize to drain all gasoline between 
uses.

Our old diesel genset we had at the main office ( I think) had two 
tanks, and we would use all of tank one, then switch to tank two and 
refill tank one. this kept the fuel relatively fresh, also had a filter 
and water trap on the bottom of each tank which we would drain monthly 
because it seemed to accumulate water at a regular rate, albeit slowly, 
even though the  tanks were inside a building.

Several years ago I put my geo metro into generator service. It has a 
3cyl  engine. It idled for about 50 hrs and used about 1/3 tank of gas 
as I recall. I used the DC output through an inverter to power the fan 
in my wood stove, a few lights on extension cords and a ham radio ,  
every few hours I would unplug everything else and plug in the 
refrigerator and let it run until it kicked off.   mission accomplished 
with no ill effects to geo.

K4ITF






Bill Fuqua wrote:
> Another problem is the life time of the engine itself.
>    Many of the generator sets use aluminum castings.These wear a lot 
> faster than the cast iron ones unless they have a steel or iron sleeve 
> inserted into the cylinder bore or use a high silicon content aluminum 
> alloy and etch the surface leaving a thin coat of silicon for the 
> piston rings to rub against. I don't know what they use in the 
> Chinese  made engines now but I suspect they wear out fairly quickly.
>    While brainstorming during the Ice Storm ( had a lot of spare time 
> then), I considered using the DC power from the battery and charging 
> system of my old 84 van and also bypass the coolant thru an external 
> hose to an external radiator that would be used to heat the house. If 
> you used some easy quick disconnects for coolant and power you could 
> then disconnect the system and drive to the gas station to refill it, 
> if gas is available. This would be an effective heater since most of 
> the energy from the gasoline would be going into heat anyway. A remote 
> starter would be useful as well.
>    If you have electric heat or heat pump this would be an interesting 
> alterative.  If you have gas heat all you need to do is to power the 
> furnace and a power generator would take care of that.  The DC power 
> could operate a 12VDC equipment (radios for example)  and via an 
> inverter llow power AC stuff, lights, fans, computers and TV even 
> refrigerators. Refrigerators require very little power.
>
>
>
> At 09:07 PM 10/12/2008 -0400, Larry Brown wrote:
>> Tony and group,
>>
>>   The short answer is......not very darn long!  To explain, a common
>> air-cooled small engine under constant load/continous operation can 
>> use up
>> to 1 ounce of oil an hour. Yep! That's almost a quart a day.  Based 
>> on that
>> info oil should be checked every two to four hours  and changed every 25
>> hours(per most manufacturers spec). Without hour meters it's 
>> difficult to
>> gather hard facts but with proper maintenence a box-store genset 
>> should last
>> 600-1000 hours with the occaisional 24-72 hour constant operation.
>>    If anyone wants to donate a cheap genset for the cause I'd be 
>> happy to
>> start one up and let it run till it dies for the sake of science!
>>
>> Having said all that, the dealer I work for sells and services Honda 
>> gensets
>> and inverters. Several of our contractor/builder customers have units 
>> that
>> are 5+ years old and are routinely subject to 8 hours a day 5 days a 
>> week
>> operation and still going strong. Of course a Honda 6.5KW will cost 
>> about
>> $3000 compared to the "box-store" special that may run $799 or less.
>>
>> My own genset is a 4KW Generac I got from a older ham that upgraded to a
>> Honda with electric start. It's a 1986 model that was well cared for and
>> other than being noisy as H&%L has served me fine. I'm guessing it's had
>> around 450 hours of service,some of that in 24-48 hour stretches.
>>
>> If asked to reccomend a genset, I'd say do your homework and answer a 
>> few
>> basic questions.
>> 1) how often will it be used
>> 2)where will it get most use(home,field day,emergency ops etc.)
>> 3)what load will it be under(a few lights,radios,deep freeze,fridge,big
>> screen TV)
>> 4)can I maintain it myself or depend on a dealer for service
>> 5)do I have a safe storage area for fuel(enough for up to 72 hrs)
>> 6)can I replenish fuel supplies easily(propane stores well longer,gas 
>> and
>> diesel need to be rotated out to maintain fresh and viable stock. Gas 
>> needs
>> to be used within 3 months of purchase,diesel about a year)
>>
>> After you answer these questions,then start researching the different 
>> types
>> of units(portable,stationary and mobile-trailer mounted). Talk with 
>> people
>> and see what works for them. Check with state and local 
>> enities(maintence
>> crews not politicos),fire depts,EM teams neighbors ,anyone that has 
>> used a
>> genset a while and get their experiences. Find out where the service 
>> shops
>> are and what they will and will not work on. That $399 special at Harbor
>> Freight might sound like a deal but if you can't get repair
>> parts........nuff said?
>>
>> Lastly, no matter what you get,portable or stationary. $299 special or
>> $15000 whole house unit. Unless you start and run it at least once a
>> month,keep the fuel fresh and do regular maintenence,when another Ike 
>> rides
>> through the Ohio valley,an ice storm takes the powerlines down or you 
>> just
>> need a saw and drill on the back forty,good luck! Chances are pretty 
>> good
>> that neglected genset won't hit a lick!
>>
>> Sorry for the ramblin folks,just wanted to be sure I hit all the high
>> ground!
>> 73!
>> Larry
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "A. W." <ky4sp at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Kyham" <kyham at mailman.qth.net>; "Larry Brown" <larryb13 at iglou.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2008 10:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [KYHAM] "gas" vs. diesel gen-sets (was BPL, Ham radio 
>> and the
>> EOC)
>>
>>
>> > Larry,
>> >
>> > You might be in a position to give us some idea of how many hours of
>> > service a typical 3600rpm "lawn mower engine" generator is good 
>> for. I'm
>> > sure you have quite pile of them waiting right now, with problems 
>> ranging
>> > from stopped up carbs to having been run dry of oil.
>> > How long will one of those hold up running on a near continuous basis?
>> > Let's assume for the purpose of my question that the operator would 
>> check
>> > the oil about every 24 hours, use conventional type oil and change 
>> said
>> > oil at the suggested interval.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> > Tony KY4SP
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > No virus found in this incoming message.
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>> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 
>> 10/11/2008
>> > 3:59 PM
>> >
>> >
>>
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