From holden7471 at msn.com Sun Mar 7 21:46:06 2021 From: holden7471 at msn.com (howard holden) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2021 02:46:06 +0000 Subject: [Kenwood] Classic Exchange Winter 2021 Phone Message-ID: The phone portion of Winter 2021 CX will take place on Sunday Mar 14 1400Z to Mar 15 0800Z and Tuesday Mar 16 1400Z to Mar 17 0800Z. The CX is a no-pressure contest celebrating the older commercial and Home Brew equipment that was the pride and joy of ham shacks many decades ago. The object is to encourage restoration, operation and enjoyment of this older Classic equipment. You need not operate a Classic rig to participate in the CX. You may use any rig in the contest although new gear is a distinct scoring disadvantage as your multipliers are directly related to the age of the equipment you use! However, you can still work the "great ones" with modern equipment. Call: "CQ CX" Suggested phone frequencies +/- QRM: AM: 160M 1.890 80M 3.860 40M 7.270 20M 14.280 15M 21.400 10M 29.000 6M 50.400 2M 144.300 SSB: 160M 1.920 80M 3.840 40M 7.250 20M 14.260 15M 21.380 10M 28.600 6M 50.125 2M 144.200 Listen up and down for stations using crystal control. The bonus points this Winter are for E.F. Johnson equipment. Full details at http://www.classicexchange.org/announcments/Winter_2021_CX_Rules.pdf Questions? Contact e-mail: K3MSB: myscupper at gmail.com or K2RP: k2rp at arrl.net or contact me! 73, Howie WB2AWQ/7 WB2AWQ at arrl.net Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From teknoskillz at comcast.net Mon Mar 29 14:23:17 2021 From: teknoskillz at comcast.net (Steve H) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:23:17 -0400 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S Message-ID: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v battery with a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached illustration. Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all the hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd into pin 4 on this diagram. https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on the 830 is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will work. Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? Steve KA2PTE From rick.nk7i at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 14:32:47 2021 From: rick.nk7i at gmail.com (Rick NK7I) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:32:47 -0700 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> Message-ID: <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> Steve, I haven't done this.? Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to limit the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion of the audio. If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less drive).? Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires more drive (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). 73, Rick NK7I On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: > > Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator > with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. > > Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v battery > with > a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached > illustration. > > Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all the > hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd into > pin 4 on this diagram. > > https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file > > > I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 > thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on > the 830 > is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will > work. > > Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? > > > > Steve > KA2PTE > > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From teknoskillz at comcast.net Mon Mar 29 15:07:55 2021 From: teknoskillz at comcast.net (Steve H) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:07:55 -0400 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> Message-ID: <614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000> Rick I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to take 100W and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. -- Steve Hearns KA2PTE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S > Steve, > > I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to limit the > amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion of the audio. > > If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less drive). Or > put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires more drive (which > must be able to safely dissipate that power). > > 73, > Rick NK7I > > > On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: >> >> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator >> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. >> >> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v battery >> with >> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached >> illustration. >> >> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all the >> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd into >> pin 4 on this diagram. >> >> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file >> >> >> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 >> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on the >> 830 >> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will >> work. >> >> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? >> >> >> >> Steve >> KA2PTE >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Kenwood mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From rick.nk7i at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 15:49:48 2021 From: rick.nk7i at gmail.com (Rick Bates, NK7I) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:49:48 -0700 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> <614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000> Message-ID: <6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com> I'll state what should be obvious... make SURE the attenuator pad in the transmit path, switched out while receiving (DOH!).? There likely is/was a pad already in place within the amp (unless modified for non-ham use).? Perhaps it is bypassed? In the interim, grossly under driving audio would have similar effects, but for CW you'll need a pad.? Unless the rig has a drive level control (I haven't played with an 830) for power out control. Yes, the attenuator would stop the oops factor. 73, Rick NK7I On 3/29/2021 12:07 PM, Steve H wrote: > Rick > > I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to take 100W > and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. > > -- > Steve Hearns > KA2PTE > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S > > >> Steve, >> >> I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to >> limit the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion of >> the audio. >> >> If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less drive). >> Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires more drive >> (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). >> >> 73, >> Rick NK7I >> >> >> On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: >>> >>> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator >>> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. >>> >>> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v >>> battery with >>> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached >>> illustration. >>> >>> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all the >>> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd >>> into >>> pin 4 on this diagram. >>> >>> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file >>> >>> >>> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 >>> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on >>> the 830 >>> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will >>> work. >>> >>> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> KA2PTE >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Kenwood mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Kenwood mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From ken.d.brown at hawaiiantel.net Mon Mar 29 16:02:27 2021 From: ken.d.brown at hawaiiantel.net (ken.d.brown at hawaiiantel.net) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 09:02:27 -1100 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> Message-ID: Hi Steve, I think using the ALC to keep the power output down to 5 Watts on a system that normally puts out about 100 Watts is not likely to work very well. I had difficulties just trying to reduce drive to 50 watts on a 100 watt radio. A very different radio, but I'll tell you the story anyway. I was using a TS-440 (yes I know a solid state PA not tubes like the 830) to drive an SGC SG-500 amplifier. The SG-500 needed to have about 50 to 60 watts of drive. Anything higher would make the SG-500 protection circuitry switch in it's own internal input attenuator. Of course you cannot have the protection circuitry switching in the attenuator at the beginning of every transmission. That would no doubt make the leading edge of the first dit or dah sound really weird and probably wear out some relay contacts pretty quickly. I thought I could just turn down the TX power with the front panel knob on the TS-440 and everything would be fine. I did that, and it seemed like it was working, until Mort W6JU (SK) told me there is something funny about my signal. I couldn't hear the problem on a receiver, because the signal was just too loud locally. I had to look at my signal on an oscilloscope to see what was happening. What I discovered was the when I turned to TX power down on the TS-440 the keying envelope changed. The rise time of the CW waveform got longer and the leading edge of the envelope not as steep as it should be. It gave the signal a very "soft keyed" kind of sound and probably reduced the useable keying speed significantly. By the way, the TS-440 did this all on it's own. It didn't matter whether it was driving the amplifier. I tried some adjustments in the ALC circuit, I found I could set it up so that the keying envelope was normal at 50 or 60 Watts output, but then I could not get full 100 Watt output from the TS-440. I considered leaving it adjusted this way and having a TS-440 that wouldn't put out full power. I didn't really like that idea and settled on building an attenuator to put between the TS-440 and the amplifier. The 2.5 to 3 dB attenuation would never be noticed on receive, at least not on the lower bands. I also had separate TX and RX antennas and did not necessarily listen on the antenna connected to the amplifier. That is a different story. In your case having to reduce the power from 100 watts to 5 watts will require a 13 dB attenuator, and that amount of attenuation in the receive signal path may be objectionable. You may need rearrange your T/R switching so that the receive path is not through the amplifier internal T/R switching system and not through the attenuator. Have fun DE N6KB On 2021-03-29 07:23, Steve H wrote: > Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator > with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. > > Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v battery > with > a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached > illustration. > > Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all the > hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd > into > pin 4 on this diagram. > > https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file > > > I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 > thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on the > 830 > is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will > work. > > Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? > > > > Steve > KA2PTE > > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From thompson at mindspring.com Mon Mar 29 16:48:38 2021 From: thompson at mindspring.com (Dave Thompson) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:48:38 -0400 (GMT-04:00) Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S Message-ID: <447523759.6326.1617050918622@wamui-hyena.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From k3ac at aol.com Mon Mar 29 17:49:17 2021 From: k3ac at aol.com (k3ac at aol.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 21:49:17 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> <614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000> <6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <545332153.891773.1617054557979@mail.yahoo.com> Steve,?Check with Pasternak Electronics. They sell a wide range of RF attenuators (50 ohms) of various power ratings that should reduce the PO to the level you require without interfering with the ALC. Here's their website:?https://www.pasternack.com/50-ohm-fixed-attenuators-category.aspx?73,Bob k3AC?In a message dated 3/29/2021 3:51:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, rick.nk7i at gmail.com writes:? I'll state what should be obvious... make SURE the attenuator pad in the transmit path, switched out while receiving (DOH!).? There likely is/was a pad already in place within the amp (unless modified for non-ham use).? Perhaps it is bypassed? In the interim, grossly under driving audio would have similar effects, but for CW you'll need a pad.? Unless the rig has a drive level control (I haven't played with an 830) for power out control. Yes, the attenuator would stop the oops factor. 73, Rick NK7I On 3/29/2021 12:07 PM, Steve H wrote: > Rick > > I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to take 100W > and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. > > -- > Steve Hearns > KA2PTE > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" > To: > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S > > >> Steve, >> >> I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to >> limit the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion of >> the audio. >> >> If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less drive). >> Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires more drive >> (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). >> >> 73, >> Rick NK7I >> >> >> On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: >>> >>> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator >>> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. >>> >>> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v >>> battery with >>> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached >>> illustration. >>> >>> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all the >>> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd >>> into >>> pin 4 on this diagram. >>> >>> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file >>> >>> >>> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 >>> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on >>> the 830 >>> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will >>> work. >>> >>> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? >>> >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> KA2PTE >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Kenwood mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Kenwood mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Kenwood mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From k6fsb.1 at gmail.com Mon Mar 29 19:02:06 2021 From: k6fsb.1 at gmail.com (Renee K6FSB) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 16:02:06 -0700 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> <614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000> <6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com> Message-ID: <368d38dc-2b0f-a6b5-74fa-6e252f9b97fa@gmail.com> silly Question- does the rig have a carrier level control around the outside of the mic control??? IIRC you can turn the output down to minimum....I could be wrong..... Ren?e On 3/29/21 12:49 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote: > I'll state what should be obvious... make SURE the attenuator pad in > the transmit path, switched out while receiving (DOH!).? There likely > is/was a pad already in place within the amp (unless modified for > non-ham use).? Perhaps it is bypassed? > > In the interim, grossly under driving audio would have similar > effects, but for CW you'll need a pad.? Unless the rig has a drive > level control (I haven't played with an 830) for power out control. > > Yes, the attenuator would stop the oops factor. > > 73, > Rick NK7I > > On 3/29/2021 12:07 PM, Steve H wrote: >> Rick >> >> I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to take 100W >> and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. >> >> -- >> Steve Hearns >> KA2PTE >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S >> >> >>> Steve, >>> >>> I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to >>> limit the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion >>> of the audio. >>> >>> If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less >>> drive). Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires >>> more drive (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). >>> >>> 73, >>> Rick NK7I >>> >>> >>> On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: >>>> >>>> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator >>>> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. >>>> >>>> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v >>>> battery with >>>> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached >>>> illustration. >>>> >>>> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all >>>> the >>>> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the >>>> gnd into >>>> pin 4 on this diagram. >>>> >>>> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file >>>> >>>> >>>> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 >>>> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on >>>> the 830 >>>> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this >>>> will work. >>>> >>>> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> KA2PTE >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Kenwood mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Kenwood mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Kenwood mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From clif at avvid.com Mon Mar 29 19:49:39 2021 From: clif at avvid.com (Clif Holland) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:49:39 -0500 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <368d38dc-2b0f-a6b5-74fa-6e252f9b97fa@gmail.com> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000> <3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com> <614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000> <6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com> <368d38dc-2b0f-a6b5-74fa-6e252f9b97fa@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1998183a-0af7-1134-29ba-c3c6be7a1977@avvid.com> Only in CW, doesn't affect SSB. Just remember that whatever attenuator you use, unless wired into the amp, will also affect the RX. Clif Holland KA5IPF www.avvid.com On 3/29/2021 6:02 PM, Renee K6FSB wrote: > silly Question- > does the rig have a carrier level control around the outside of the > mic control??? IIRC you can turn the output down to minimum....I could > be wrong..... > Ren?e > > On 3/29/21 12:49 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote: >> I'll state what should be obvious... make SURE the attenuator pad in >> the transmit path, switched out while receiving (DOH!).? There likely >> is/was a pad already in place within the amp (unless modified for >> non-ham use).? Perhaps it is bypassed? >> >> In the interim, grossly under driving audio would have similar >> effects, but for CW you'll need a pad.? Unless the rig has a drive >> level control (I haven't played with an 830) for power out control. >> >> Yes, the attenuator would stop the oops factor. >> >> 73, >> Rick NK7I >> >> On 3/29/2021 12:07 PM, Steve H wrote: >>> Rick >>> >>> I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to take >>> 100W >>> and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. >>> >>> -- >>> Steve Hearns >>> KA2PTE >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" >>> To: >>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S >>> >>> >>>> Steve, >>>> >>>> I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to >>>> limit the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion >>>> of the audio. >>>> >>>> If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less >>>> drive). Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires >>>> more drive (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> Rick NK7I >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator >>>>> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. >>>>> >>>>> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v >>>>> battery with >>>>> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached >>>>> illustration. >>>>> >>>>> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out >>>>> all the >>>>> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the >>>>> gnd into >>>>> pin 4 on this diagram. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 >>>>> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 >>>>> on the 830 >>>>> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this >>>>> will work. >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> KA2PTE >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Kenwood mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Kenwood mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Kenwood mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Kenwood mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From manualman at juno.com Mon Mar 29 19:52:16 2021 From: manualman at juno.com (manualman at juno.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 19:52:16 -0400 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S Message-ID: If this is for using the 830S with the Johnson Thunderbolt, the Thunderbolt manual includes design information for building various resistor attenuators (typically a "T"- type design) to drop the exciter power down to work with the amplifier. I built one years ago to work with a Johnson Ranger exciter driving the Thunderbolt. Johnson also made two attenuators which sometimes pop up on ebay or hamfests. The Kenwood ALC diagram power reduction diagram, battery, variable resistor, etc. would also work OK to power reduce SSB output but it might be a little more difficult to adjust. Two tone audio into the mike input, or something similar, would have to be used. Pete, wa2cwa www.manualman.com > On 3/29/2021 12:07 PM, Steve H wrote: > > Rick > > > > I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to > take 100W > > and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. > > > > -- > > Steve Hearns > > KA2PTE > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" > > > To: > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S > > > > > >> Steve, > >> > >> I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to > >> limit the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and > distortion of > >> the audio. > >> > >> If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less > drive). > >> Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires more > drive > >> (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). > >> > >> 73, > >> Rick NK7I > >> > >> > >> On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: > >>> > >>> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator > >>> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to > excite. > >>> > >>> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v > >>> battery with > >>> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the > attached > >>> illustration. > >>> > >>> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out > all the > >>> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the > gnd > >>> into > >>> pin 4 on this diagram. > >>> > >>> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file > >>> > >>> > >>> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 > >>> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 > on > >>> the 830 > >>> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this > will > >>> work. > >>> > >>> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their > linear? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Steve > >>> KA2PTE From teknoskillz at comcast.net Tue Mar 30 03:21:26 2021 From: teknoskillz at comcast.net (Steve H) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 03:21:26 -0400 Subject: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S In-Reply-To: <1998183a-0af7-1134-29ba-c3c6be7a1977@avvid.com> References: <5DF0F987F78A4642937B5F3AD581F34D@HAL2000><3efb2e27-cfd6-25e2-b618-8bd4161531de@gmail.com><614C077DA5C244B4A9D86EA939606956@HAL2000><6b6c37ea-dfb7-5b75-00cd-412056f31403@gmail.com><368d38dc-2b0f-a6b5-74fa-6e252f9b97fa@gmail.com> <1998183a-0af7-1134-29ba-c3c6be7a1977@avvid.com> Message-ID: <7E3BDE361C2F46369E231EAF0946949F@HAL2000> Previously I had my TS-530S (older version of the 830S) into the linear and was using the CARRIER control knob with ok results. However it was in to the RESISTIVE input of the Thunderbolt - its 350ohms, so plenty of excitation drive was lost in the form of heat on an internal RF choke that blew 2 times so far. The LC networks in the amp for each band only need 5-10w and I am told work more efficiently. With the CARRIER knob, I could vary my linears output from 50-500watts nicely, but of course at the expense of loosing the RF choke and damaging the linear pretty badly. I am thinking ideally, I need an attenuator that will vary 5 to 10W very slowly if I want to see that kind of control. The CARRIER control on the 830 is for sure not nearly as linear, and brings me to well over 15W just about any position. I may be able to alter that a little withthe DRIVE control, but as someone mentioned, I can loose incoming rx RF gain. Steve KA2PTE ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Holland" To: Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S > Only in CW, doesn't affect SSB. Just remember that whatever attenuator you > use, unless wired into the amp, will also affect the RX. > > Clif Holland KA5IPF > www.avvid.com > > On 3/29/2021 6:02 PM, Renee K6FSB wrote: >> silly Question- >> does the rig have a carrier level control around the outside of the mic >> control? IIRC you can turn the output down to minimum....I could be >> wrong..... >> Ren?e >> >> On 3/29/21 12:49 PM, Rick Bates, NK7I wrote: >>> I'll state what should be obvious... make SURE the attenuator pad in the >>> transmit path, switched out while receiving (DOH!). There likely is/was >>> a pad already in place within the amp (unless modified for non-ham use). >>> Perhaps it is bypassed? >>> >>> In the interim, grossly under driving audio would have similar effects, >>> but for CW you'll need a pad. Unless the rig has a drive level control >>> (I haven't played with an 830) for power out control. >>> >>> Yes, the attenuator would stop the oops factor. >>> >>> 73, >>> Rick NK7I >>> >>> On 3/29/2021 12:07 PM, Steve H wrote: >>>> Rick >>>> >>>> I guess I need an attenuator then. It would have to be able to take >>>> 100W >>>> and bring it down to 5-10w for the hf bands. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Steve Hearns >>>> KA2PTE >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick NK7I" >>>> To: >>>> Sent: Monday, March 29, 2021 2:32 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [Kenwood] ALC with Kenwood TS-830S >>>> >>>> >>>>> Steve, >>>>> >>>>> I haven't done this. Traditional wisdom is to NOT use the ALC to limit >>>>> the amp, that causes issues like flat topping and distortion of the >>>>> audio. >>>>> >>>>> If you're using an audio mode, try providing less audio (less drive). >>>>> Or put an attenuator pad on the amp input so it requires more drive >>>>> (which must be able to safely dissipate that power). >>>>> >>>>> 73, >>>>> Rick NK7I >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/29/2021 11:23 AM, Steve H wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Trying out this alternative to using an attenuator >>>>>> with my 830S and an older linear that only needs 5-10W to excite. >>>>>> >>>>>> Was told to get pin 6 on the remote connector din and get a 9v >>>>>> battery with >>>>>> a 225k potentiometer on it and feed the wiper as per the attached >>>>>> illustration. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thats seems to be for the 520/820s now that I notice. Turns out all >>>>>> the >>>>>> hybrids use pin 6 for the alc, but I notice they are putting the gnd >>>>>> into >>>>>> pin 4 on this diagram. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.mediafire.com/view/5sf9ovlmvhvkqjv/alc.jpg/file >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I had tried this but used the chassis ground and pin 6 >>>>>> thinking that would work, but it does not have any effect. Pin 4 on >>>>>> the 830 >>>>>> is to the NO contact of the control relay, so I dont think this will >>>>>> work. >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone used the ALC on their 830 to limit input to their linear? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve >>>>>> KA2PTE >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Kenwood mailing list >>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>>>>> >>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Kenwood mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Kenwood mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Kenwood mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Kenwood mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Kenwood mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/kenwood > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:Kenwood at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html