[Kenwood] TS-520/TS-520S Neutralization
Garey Barrell
[email protected]
Sat, 24 Apr 2004 21:46:46 -0400
Pete -
Is it possible that these differences are a result of "CCS" vs
"ICAS" dissipation ratings. Looking at a late W and a B, the
plate structure seems to be identical. I don't have a
manufacturer's sheet for the B.
73, Garey - K4OAH
Atlanta
Peter A Markavage wrote:
> In regards to the original issue of neutralization, you and Glen are
> correct. Beyond a certain date code manufacture, the 6146W's and 6146B's
> are equivalent in "steady-state/stable" operation, given the same set of
> circuitry. However, as it has been detailed in many tube manuals, the
> plate dissipation specified for the "W" is less than what's specified for
> the "B". So, given that the specifications sheets for the tubes and the
> tube manuals are correct, running the 'W" at the same "full throttle"
> current and voltage as you would for the "B", would most likely, under
> similar types of operating conditions, result in the "W" not lasting as
> long as the "B". And as Cliff stated, the 6146B's can be directly
> interchangeable with the S2001/2001A using the same "full throttle"
> current and voltage parameters.
>
> Pete, WA2CWA
>
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 09:48:54 -0600 Ray Friess <[email protected]>
> writes:
>
>>I'll go with what Glen Zook taught. I've used the W version in mine
>>
>>for two years at full throttle without any problems.
>>
>>
>>Clif Holland wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The TS520's were designed for the S2001A tube. The direct
>>
>>replacement for
>>
>>>the S2001A is the 6146B. Nuff said.
>>>
>>>Clif Holland, KA5IPF
>>>AVVid
>>>Authorized Kenwood and Icom Service Center
>>>816 W Shady Grove Rd
>>>Irving, TX 75060
>>>
>>>www.avvid.com
>>>
>>>1-800-214-5779
>>>972-870-0630 (local)
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Ray Friess" <[email protected]>
>>>To: "Larry, K4WLS" <[email protected]>
>>>Cc: "Donald E. "Buck" Stiles" <[email protected]>;
>>
>><[email protected]>
>>
>>>Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2004 9:31 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [Kenwood] TS-520/TS-520S Neutralization
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I got my information and 6146 tutorial from Glen Zook K9STH, who
>>
>>is an
>>
>>>>acknowledged expert
>>>>on 6146 tubes and their successors. He has answered the question
>>
>>about
>>
>>>>using 6146W tubes
>>>>many times.... I have used them in one of my ts 520 rigs for a
>>
>>couple
>>
>>>>years now without any
>>>>problems at all. When the original tubes in my second ts 520 go,
>>
>>I will
>>
>>>>replace them with W's
>>>>as well. I have 100 of the tubes........ all brand new.
>>>>Here's his web site and here's a portion of what he said just
>>
>>recently...
>>
>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~k9sth
>>>>http://home.comcast.net/~zcomco
>>>>
>>>>Unless you want some pretty "hairy" experience with
>>>>neutralization (and they may or may not neutralize) do
>>>>
>>>>not use 6146B tubes or any 6146W tubes with a "code
>>>>date" later than 1964 (which are basically the same
>>>>tube as the 6146B). Sometimes the 6146B works in
>>>>equipment that was originally designed for the
>>>>6146/6146A/8298 series, but using the 6146B/8298A
>>>>often results in all sorts of problems.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>arry, K4WLS wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>6146W's are NOT a direct replacement for 6146B's. The
>>>>>6146W's are the miltary version of the 6148B. Nice thing
>>>>>about the 6146W is they are built to Mil Specs and are more
>>>>>rugged than the 6146B. They were originally conceived to
>>>>>run in the old military VHF equipment. Big problem, the plate
>>>>>dissipation power of the 6146W is only 75W compared to
>>>>>90W for a 6146, 5146A, and 6146B.
>>>>>
>>>>>The 6146B has a plate dissipation power of 90W, so two
>>>>>of them in parallel can be run at 180W input on CW.
>>>>>
>>>>>The 6146W only has a plate dissipation power of 75W, so
>>>>>two of the can be run in parallel for 150W input on CW. If
>>>>>you are running 6146W's better lower the Drive Level on
>>>>>CW or the Mic Gain on SSB. Otherwise you are risking
>>>>>lowering the life of the tubes, failure of a tube, and
>>
>>associated
>>
>>>>>damage to other components in the finals, especially the
>>>>>sreen grid resistors.
>>>>>
>>>>>Plate Dissipation Power (Power Input per Tube) = 1/2 Ip
>>>>>(total plate current - actually cathode current minus screen
>>>>>current) X (plate voltage or key down HV on meter). This is
>>
>>assuming both
>>
>>>>>tubes are perfectly matched and are conducting the same amount
>>
>>of
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>current.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Unless you have a matched pair of finals (which you should always
>>
>>run in
>>
>>>>>parallel power amps), most
>>>>>likely one tune is conducting more than the other. All the more
>>>>>reason to stay away from 6146W's.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you have 6146W's in your rig, tune up on CW and advance
>>>>>Drive Level to 225 mA (180W input with key down HV of 800V).
>>>>>Hold key down one or two seconds and watch Ip start
>>>>>dropping. Hold key down longer and listen the the crackling
>>>>>as the plates start getting very hot as the plate dissipation
>>>>>power is being exceeded. If rig covers were off, and final
>>>>>cage removed, hold key down a bit longer and watch the plates
>>>>>start glowing cherry red as the crackling due to heat gets more
>>>>>intense.
>>>>>
>>>>>If your key down HV is more than 800V, do Ip = Key Down HV/
>>>>>180W to get the Ip to advance the Drive Level to, to try this
>>
>>little
>>
>>>>>test on 6146W's.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you use 6146W, they only good for 150W input - you should
>>>>>always run a matched pair of 6146B's in your Kenwood tube
>>>>>rigs for best performance.
>>>>>
>>>>>Also, you most certainly can use a 6146 or 6146A as a
>>>>>replacement for a 6146B in all TS-520 thru TS-830S as
>>>>>long as the tubes are good.
>>>>>
>>>>>You guys need a good Transmitting Tube Manual such as that
>>>>>put of by RCA or GE, EIMAC - they are still in print.
>>>>>
>>>>>Larry, K4WLS
>>>>>
>>>>>From: "Ray Friess" <[email protected]>
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Kenwood] TS-520/TS-520S Neutralization
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Don:
>>>>>I also have a ts 520 .... two of them in fact. I recently
>>
>>retubed the
>>
>>>>>finals in one of them using
>>>>>6146W tubes and have had no trouble with neutralization once
>>
>>done.
>>
>>>>>The 6146B is the American version of the finals that come with
>>
>>the
>>
>>>>>Kenwood, and you can use
>>>>>6146 W in place of 6146B, but NOT for a 6146 or 6146A...
>>>>>Ray wa7itz
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Donald E. "Buck" Stiles wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Kenwood listees,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I needed replace the tubes and my TS-520. I have a 6146W tubes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>available,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>however, I am concerned that I will not be able to neutralize
>>
>>these
>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>tubes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>The normal tubes are the 6146/6146A variety. Has anyone had
>>
>>experience
>>
>>>>>>neutralizing the 6146W in the TS-520/TS-520S?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Any suggestions appreciated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>73 de N8CSP k
>
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>
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