[K3PZN-List] presentations
James Nitzberg
wx3b at yahoo.com
Wed Jun 7 11:05:06 EDT 2017
Hi Mark,
I will likely have a chance to do a more detailed review of your options in person at an upcoming CCARC meeting. This is one of my favorite topics!!
Though I have somewhat limited experience myself building a station, I have been fortunate to operate and learn the design of several super-stations that have been built over the years
here in Maryland.
Your requirements are actually (somewhat) straightforward - I have noticed you left 160 meters off your "must have" list (5 band DXCC, not 6), and that simplifies your station building. Of course you can have an awful lot of fun on 160 with relatively simple antennas, however that band is mostly a CW band for DXing (and SSB for rag chewing).
Since you are not focused on contesting, and you ARE focused on DXing, you probably won't care if you lose a few dB here and there - or you are 10dB down from your competitors because you have a compromise antenna height that is way too high on some bands - for USA and closer DX locations like (close) European countries.
I'll start with something I learned a long time ago from Frank Donovan, W3LPL (he is the master station builder in the Maryland area, has the best DX and contest station around for many miles on most if not all the bands).
IF you are ONLY putting up one tower, and you are ONLY buying one directional antenna to cover 10 - 40 meters, you will likely land with about a 100 foot tower and a single Yagi at 80 to 100 feet. Why? This is a reasonably good height for 40 meters, a very good height for 20 meters, a little high on 15 (in some areas) and though quite a bit high on 10 meters, due to the nature of propagation when that band is open, it will still work well. There are several good stations built in Maryland that subscribe to this theory. W3LL has a single yagi at 90 feet and does quite well with it. WB2ZAB has one 100 foot tower with a large, strong mast and two yagis (one for 40, one for the other high bands). N3OC uses (2) 100 foot towers with a stack of (2) yagis on one for the high bands (10/15/20) and another stack at 50 and 100 feet for two 40m antennas.
If you want to up your game just a little bit (and spend another few thousand dollars on a second antenna) you can stack two yagis at 50 and 100 feet, and you won't have huge compromises at all on 10, 15 & 20 meters (or the WARC bands, if your antennas support them). The 50 foot stacking is good compromise for 15 & 20 meters, too far apart on 10 (but still may work) and too close on 40 (but still may work). The real beauty of the two separate heights is of course the ability to cover a much wider variety of arrival angles of DX without "suffering" if your antenna is at the wrong height.
I am making an arbitrary assumption that you probably wish to keep your spending below $50,000 (and perhaps below $20,000) for your first tower effort. It can bet very expensive, very quickly, when you start stacking antennas, and building structures over 100 feet (provided you have the zoning approval to do so).
Most folks looking to work DX with a one tower station pick a tribander antenna (or one that covers at least 10/15/20). Others pick antennas with motorized elements so they can have all the bands covered. (SteppIR). Alternatively you can buy antennas with MORE fixed elements and cover all the bands of interest. Several of the best antennas also cover 40 meters!!
So with one good antenna at 80 - 100 feet, you can quickly be in the 'secondary tier' of DX stations, where most folks will have a weaker signal than you except the very best stations. Note that there are times, however, with an antenna that high, that on some bands you will wait in line to work 'short haul' DX, simply because your antenna is too high to be competitive. Many folks who haven't studied the ARRL documentation never thought an antenna could be "too high".
For 80 meter DX, a 2 element wire phased vertical array is actually a very good transmit antenna in two directions. Since your goal is working DX, you will likely have to double your investment and use a 4 element wire vertical array known as a 4-square. These can be made of aluminum elements as well at a higher cost, however if you do not have 4 x 65 foot trees to hang wires in at the right spacing, it is the way to go. Using a 4 square vertical array with 40 - 60 quarter wave verticals under each element will put you near the top of the heap in the DX pileups on 80 meters.
A much easier first effort, if you have a 100 foot tower, is to simply string a wire dipole up at the top of the tower. Why? It will be a relatively good DX antenna, even at that height. Will it beat the 4-square? Not likely, however to the Caribbean, some close destinations in EU, etc. the dipole could actually be LOUDER at times. Your ideal solution is to have both. Getting started, however, I would install a resonant dipole at 100 feet with the ends as high as possible to keep it flat (realizing some amount of droop on the sides is necessary) and you will have an incredible amount of success getting started. Focus on building some good receive antennas for 80 meters. Even with a simple dipole at 100 feet, your ability to transmit will quickly out-talk your ability to receive your callers, and the weaker DX stations you want to work.
For 160 meters, since it is not a primary goal, a good first step is a vertical antenna running the length of your tower or some type of inverted "L" wire. You may also try loading the tower itself since you are only transmitting one signal at a time (shunt fed vertical = your tower).
For low band receive antennas, you will review Pennants, Loops, K9AY type RX antennas, Share Apex Loop (SAL), short beverages, longer beverages, and finally, if you get serious, receive vertical arrays like 4 square and eventually 9 circle receive arrays (you have to be quite serious to start with those, but they are the best for fishing up weak DX in all directions).
In order to get started, you will need to know:
1. How much land do you have? This might limit your tower height.
2. How much money do you want to spend....at first?
3. Guyed or self-supporting tower?
4. Do you care about the WARC bands (12/17/30) - if you do, you need a more specialized antenna or more antennas.
6. How badly are you going to feel when your friends beat you in the pileups to the short-haul DX locations like the Caribbean? If you care, you'll need a 2-stack of antennas for the high bands.
Hope this gives you some things to think about. I will be glad to answer questions, perhaps off line, since this thread might quickly become tiresome for those not interested.
At my own station, my primary interest is contesting, and I use (4) separate monoband antennas, on 4 separate masts, each about 55 feet tall - for 10 to 40 meters. The station is land and height limited (i.e. a 100 foot tower would really help) however I am constantly impressed by the performance of the antennas at relatively low heights. WE do team operating (multiple simultaneous signals) at WX3B and often win several events each year. You are welcome to visit to get an idea of what works well...and what doesn't!
I will also be available at a date in the future to present these options and relative efficiency at a club meeting in the future!
73,
Jim WX3B
________________________________
From: Mark Rosenthal <marksro at comcast.net>
To: James Nitzberg <wx3b at yahoo.com>; Carroll County Amateur Radio Club <k3pzn-list at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [K3PZN-List] presentations
James
Thanks for your interest.
I didn’t give much information about what I personally wanted as I thought this was to be a topic for a general presentation.
I did read the ARRL Handbook and Antenna book. That is part of what led to my questions- what I read was “ideal” was not what I saw in practice. I made some educated assumptions, but wanted to be more sure I was correct.
You are right about simple wire dipoles. I have had good success. When I got my license, my wife told me: “You can put up an antenna over my dead body”. While it was a tempting thought, I opted instead for a resonant fan dipole (for 10 and 20M) in the attic over the garage. 15 feet above ground. Actually worked well. Over time the wife relented, and I now have a ladder line fed dipole about 30 feet up in the trees. I have talked all around the world with that one. Very impressed with what a little wire form Lowes will do.
As to what I would like:
1- I do mostly DX. Not too interested in contests. I do both digital and SSB.
2- Land is yet to be determined. Now that the kids are out, the wife and I are looking to move. Hopefully an acre or two for antennas.
3- trees? Won’t know till we find the place
4- Bands I would like? Simple. All of them. I would especially like to do 80, 40, 20, 15, 10. Most common for Dx. And at some point I would like to get five band WAS. As I understand it, phased verticals on 80 and 160 would use up a lot of land, not only between elements, but between the arrays and towers. May be a bit much. But I am open to anything right now. Would also like stacked Yagis, but also costly in both money and land.
5- As I have not really done 80/160 it is hard to say exactly what I would want. But from what I read, receive antennas seem to be needed. One option to consider would be a skywave loop for 160/80. Works well for transmit and receive both.
6- As I don’t do contests, 2 transmitters at once is not much of a concern. Except it may be nice to monitor two frequencies at once. (If I tune into a DXpedition working by the numbers, I could listen for them to get to threes with one ear while scanning for other stations using the other ear.
7- Budget is good. I am pretty much retired, and should be completely done by the end of 2018 for certain. At that point I will keep working until I have funded my station. I enjoy what I do so I can work a long time to pay for toys. And it gives me an excuse to not be home.
Thanks again for any insight you can give.
73
Mark
W3MSR
> On Jun 5, 2017, at 10:59 PM, James Nitzberg via K3PZN-List <k3pzn-list at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> This is a GREAT topic, and one of my personal favorites.
>
> You might be surprised how well your wire dipole would work at the right height (perhaps you already are).
>
> You are correct that most folks place one tribander (or more bands on one antenna) at a compromise height because of cost and land constraints.
>
> There are also different heights for different objectives, and of course the lower in frequency you go, and the more DX you wish to work (assuming your goal is DX), the higher you generally wish to get the antenna.
>
> Some questions for you to answer before I form some broad recommendations and suggestion for you are:
>
> 1. What is your goal? To work DX? USA stations? Rag chewing? Contesting??? Give me some idea of your interests. CW or SSB? Digital modes?
>
> 2. How much land do you have to use for your antenna installation?
>
> 3. Do you have any tall trees > 60 feet tall that you are willing to use for wire antennas (i.e. wire yagis, etc.)
>
> 4. Are you open to using a directional array of phased verticals on 80 & 160 meters? Do you care about 80 & 60 meters?
> (A better question is: What bands do you wish to operate and/or optimize?)
>
> 5. If you are hoping to do well on 80 & 160, do you wish to utilize specialized receive antennas (Beverages, loops, vertical arrays?)
>
> 6. Do you have any aspirations for running more than one simultaneous transmitter, or having one operator control two radios at once (SO2R)?
>
> And last but not least....
>
> What type of investment are you willing to make in dollars, to achieve your radio goals (a range is a good place to start, i.e. $1,000 - $5,000, $5,000 - $10,000, etc.)
>
> If you give me this type of background on your goals, I can begin this dialogue over the reflector, or I can sharpen it and try to make an interesting 45 minute presentation
> with some examples of existing stations out of it.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim Nitzberg WX3B
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Rosenthal <marksro at comcast.net>
> To: Carroll County Amateur Radio Club <k3pzn-list at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [K3PZN-List] presentations
>
>
>
> Andy-
> I have a question that may be a good topic. Or the answer may be so simple as to not warrant an entire meeting.
>
> My current station consists of a radio, and a wire dipole. Pretty basic. The wife is allowing me a tower at our next house (moving in a year or so now that the kids are all out). So I need to decide how to select the correct antennas. From what I read in “the books”, proper beam height is 1.25 wavelengths. But looking online what I see are many stations with a single tower/antenna, a multi band yagi at one height. I assume that is a compromise for cost and space. But I am not sure. Is there another reason I am missing? And sometimes I see stations with a tower with a beam at a height other than 1.25 wavelength. Why? Am I missing something?
>
> A talk on the “best” method of setting up a station using a tower with beams, what kind of beams at what heights, and what other types of antennas (such as 80M and 160M, receive antennas, etc) would be great.
>
> Then another talk on station equipment. Such as antenna switching, automated band selection and sequencing to power down pre-amps, receive antennas, etc, use of filters (just for contesting/multiple transmitters at once? Or helpful for reducing noise for DX)? Other types of helpful electronics, etc.
>
> I know those are pretty broad topics, but any help would be very useful.
>
> 73
> Mark
> W3MSR
>
>
>> On Jun 4, 2017, at 10:16 PM, Andrew Leeds <wo3l at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> All,
>> We've had a number of interesting pretensions over the last few months. July's presentation by Pete, WV3S, is the last one currently scheduled. Any volunteers for August and into the fall? Questions that can be turned into topics are welcome too.
>>
>> 73,
>> Andy
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
>> 73 de K3PZN Westminster, MD
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> ______________________________________________________________
>
> 73 de K3PZN Westminster, MD
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73 de K3PZN Westminster, MD
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