[Johnson] Valiant Chirp - longish post
Artmouton
k5fnq at cox.net
Thu Jan 1 10:07:27 EST 2009
Al - if you remember I am one with the same problem - still not resolved
(because I am too busy with work and family)
The URL for your photo is
http://www.boatanchors.org//Valiantpix/100_0388.jpg
Looks like it will work.
All on the list, let me know what you find as I want to try it also
I was told to go through the rig and tighten all grounding screws, clean
all switches and do this mod.
Art K5FNQ
Al Parker wrote:
> Hi agn chris,
> I just found my "final" post on the subject, I'll cc it below. It's
> an RF/grounding problem inside. I know I have some pix somewhere, will
> keep looking.
> On 40m the VFO is on 40m, vs being on 160 when xmtg on 160 & 80.
> That's probably what makes it chirp there vs 160 or 80, and some guys
> have "fixed" it be changing teh mechanical linkage so it's still on 160
> when xmtg on 40. That doesn't really fix the problem, but it's a good
> work-around.
> 73,
> Al, W8UT
> New Bern, NC
> www.boatanchors.org
> www.hammarlund.info
>
> "there is nothing -absolutely nothing- half as much worth doing as
> simply messing about in boats."
> Ratty, to Mole
> ===================================
> -----Original Message-----
> From: johnson-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:johnson-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Al Parker
> Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:58 PM
> To: Old Tube Radios; Johnson list
> Subject: [Johnson] Re: Valiant chirp - fixed (long)
>
>
> Hi agn folks,
> Well, I think I've made the cure, thanks to all. I did get 3 responses
> from the BA list, and 2 from the Johnson list. 4, 2 from each list,
> said it
> was 40m RF getting back into the VFO, which was operating on the output
> freq.
> 3 suggested fiddling the mechanical switch that changes the VFO freq.
> from 1.8mc to 7mc on 40m & higher freqs. That would keep the VFO from
> operating on the output freq. exc. on 160m, where it doesn't seem to be a
> problem for anyone.
> Tom, W8JI, correctly identified the actual cause of the problem by
> sniffing with a probe. The final tuning capacitor, C8, is isolated from
> ground for some reason. Usually a capacitor rotor and shaft is grounded.
> In this case the shaft, which is about 8" long, and goes thru the front
> panel to it's knob, picks up RF from the final tank coil which is
> conveniently close coupled to the capacitor rotor and shaft. I quote Tom's
> analysis here:
> -----------
> "I got out my H field probe and started sniffing around
> inside the cabinet and found all of the problematic current
> was coming from the shaft that runs back to the plate tuning
> capacitor in the PA tank. I measured almost 1/2 amp of RF
> current on that shaft on 40 meters in mine!! It was making
> the VFO shaft hot with RF."
> ------------
> I made myself a crude but sensitive probe and also found a large amount
> of RF on the shaft. I did as he did, with a long insulated screwdriver
> grounded the shaft - the frequency shifted slightly, and the chirp was gone
> (maybe). I say maybe because I my case once I had slid the chassis about
> 10" forward out of the cabinet, there was no chirp to be found. Ain't
> these
> things fun? Anyway, to lengthen the story, I really didn't want to horse
> the thing all the way out of the cabinet and remount the capacitor to
> ground
> it, as Tom had done. If I had a strip of phosphor bronze I would have made
> a grounding strip for the shaft to rub on, and mount it using existing
> hardware that would't require getting underneath. I almost started
> making a
> spring strip from a hacksaw blade, to mount a graphite motor brush on to
> rub
> on the shaft & ground it. But the motor brush pair nad a nice 3" long
> stranded copper wire, probably a bronze alloy. So I cut it off, twisted it
> arouond the 1/4" shaft 4 times, crimped teh ends in a spade terminal and
> put
> teh spade under a VFO shield screw, with some "preload" to keep the coils
> tight on the shaft. A cupla drops of DeOxit ProGold, and it checked out
> fine business with the RF probe, and even after going back in the cabinet.
> It may not be a long term permanent fix, but I think it'll do the job for
> many months. I could have remounted the capacitor in less time, but just
> don't feel strong today. I've horsed it around enough in the last month.
> Thanks to all who helped.
> 73,
> Al, W8UT
> ===========================
> From: "Garey Barrell" <k4oah at mindspring.com>
> To: "John King" <k5pgw at yahoo.com>; <Johnson at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Johnson] Re: [Boatanchors] Viking Valiant shaft coupling
> Date: Friday, January 04, 2008 6:32 PM
>
> John -
>
> Those are just about impossible to find. They may even have been custom
> made for Johnson.
> They are unfortunately a very common restoration problem, and result
> from someone unfamiliar with Johnson Rangers and Valiants. If you
> remove the front panel with VFO dial and fail to support the heavy
> vernier, the weight will break that coupler almost every time. There is
> a hole in the chassis of both the Ranger and Valiant to allow you to
> reach in and loosen the couple setscrew so it can come off the variable
> cap shaft when the vernier is removed with the dial, but most don't know
> why that hole is there!! :-)
>
> I made one once by purchasing a 3/16" - 3/16" coupler (the small side)
> and a 1/4" - 1/4" coupler, drilling out the rivets and reassembling them
> with 2-56 hardware. I put one in a Ranger I was restoring and a friend
> used the other in a Valiant!
>
> 73, Garey - K4OAH
> Glen Allen, VA
>
>
> ============
> Here is the guy who sells the long screws.
>
> Cal J. Eustaquio
> cal.j.eustaquio at lmco.com
>
> =============
> Note to Walt--
>> Bought a Viking Valiant, at Shelby, Sept. 2000, hoped to get it on
>> the air quickly, but
>> haven't. The plate mtr shunt had bn replaced by a short pc of solid
>> wire,
>> mtr read zero, of course, but did hv output. I put in a proper .2 ohm,
>> still no indic. on the mtr. Turned out the wire from the meter function
>> switch to a gnd lug had never been soldered, & didn't make contact for
>> the
> 2
>> positions it was needed. It was said to hv modulator problems in the
>> early
>> stages, not xfmr, I found 2 inproper tubes there, but haven't wired up
>> a mic
>> yet, so still needs attn.
>
> ===============
> From: W4UOC at aol.com
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 Subject: Viking Valiant Osc. problem.
>
> Any suggestions on this one...
>
> I have a Viking Valiant transmitter that works fine except for one small
> problem.
> When I use the xtal and key the transmitter the xtal osc. does not shut
> off!
> I can her it in the receiver and the the meter in the osc. position
> shows it
> is running. It keeps running until I switch the xtal switch to the
> empty xtal
> position. Howeve, it only shows grid drive when the key is closed. Is
> this
> normal.... I doubt it....!!!!
>
> I do not have this problem when using the vfo position. It is not the
> keyer
> adjustment (R39).
> All voltages and resistance measurements look normal on the osc and keyer
> sockets.
>
> I suspect that the -6 vdc at pin 1 (control grid) of the osc. may be
> changing
> values and causing the problem.
> =============================
> Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 To: Old Tube Radios <boatanchors at theporch.com>
> From: Rodger Singley <rbsingl at rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>
> Subject: RE: Viking Valiant Osc. problem.
>
> In my case, replacing the keyer tube took care of that particular problem.
> This doesn't necessarily mean the keyer tube was bad but replacing it with
> another with slightly different characteristics took care of the problem.
> My Valiant had the additional annoying habit of producing a roughly 250
> khz.
> (NOT Mc.) oscillation in the final, produced about 3 watts out according to
> the scope/dummy load measure. Made it really difficult to use an antenna
> tuner/swr meter at low power settings (and it of course did not show up on
> the spectrum analyzer since it was well below the fundamental and the lower
> frequency display of my analyzer unit but was clearly identifiable on a
> receiver which tuned this range). Now if someone could get rid of the last
> of the chirp on 40 meters (due to fundamental getting into the VFO) I would
> really be happy. Mine is much better with additonal shielding but does not
> sound nearly as nice as my Viking 1 or 2 units.
>
> Rodger WQ9E
> ====================
> From: "Freeberg, Scott (STP)" <scott.freeberg at guidant.com>
> To: Old Tube Radios <boatanchors at theporch.com>
> Subject: RE: Looking for Johnson Viking Valiant info
> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:23:35 -0600
> X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9)
> Reply-To: scott.freeberg at guidant.com
> Sender: owner-boatanchors at theporch.com
>
> Hi Ken,
>
> Congratulations on getting your new Valiant. It is a great transmitter and
> alot of fun to operate! I bought one 2 years ago and continue to use it
> weekly on cw and AM. Here is a couple of things I found with mine and
> would
> recommend you look into also.
>
> 1. Replace the 866 high voltage rectifiers with a pair of 3B28's . Don't
> wait for one to fail, do it now. While the 866's are more nostalgic and
> prettier to look at, they have a tendency to fail shorted and could
> possible take out your hv transformer. One of my 866's shorted but did not
> damage the transformer.
>
> 2. Since you are poking around, open up the VFO cabinet and replace that
> 18K resistor that is in series with the OA2 voltage regulator. I don't
> have
> the schematic at hand, but its the 18K series resistor feeding the VFO
> voltage regulator. Replace it with a 5 or 6 watt part. The resistor in
> there is underrated and is slowly burning up. Mine finally burned up and
> damaged several tubes. I put the replacement 6 watt part on a new
> terminal
> strip mounted under the chassis. There is a convenient rubber grommet to
> run the wires through into the vfo compartment. Helps reduce heat in the
> vfo compartment. This is a known problem to Rangers and Valiants.
>
> 3. You mention recapping. I would only recap if something is wrong. If
> the caps are working fine, there may be no immediate need to replace them
> unless you just want to replace them all.
> 4. Buy a manual. You can get a nice manual from W7FG manuals, plus
> others.
> There is other good information in there besides the schematic.
>
> Good luck with your Valiant.
>
> 73, Scott WA9WFA in Saint Paul Minn
> ==============================================
> VFO
> Found this in my files.
> Hope it's useful.
> Ed - VA3ES
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 12:55 PM
> Subject: Re: Ranger VFO problem
>
>
> The VFO housing can be removed by the following steps (these are from
> memory, my complete description is on another computer and can be found no
> doubt in the archives.)
>
> 0) Do NOT remove all the screws visible on the top of the VFO housing. Do
> NOT remove the screws at the sides of the housing. Do NOT remove the VFO
> tuning shaft coupling. Do NOT remove the circle clips from the phenolic
> adjustment devices.
>
> 1) Mark the orientations of the adjustment devices on the top of the
> housing.
>
> 2) Unfasten the connections from the top front of the VFO housing to the
> top rear of the front panel: there are at least one terminal strip with
> pilot lamp connections and a very important ground connection.
>
> 3) Visually locate the four studs at the lower edges of the VFO
> housing. You will remove a nut from each of them from the underside.
>
> 4) Invert the transmitter and remove the cover that protects the
> bandswitch. The phenolic adjustment rods each have a metal spring in the
> end. These springs engage the adjustments in the VFO housing. These
> springs must not be lost and must be in place upon re-assembly. A conical
> shaped hole in the end of the rod ensures that the rod with its spring
> engages the slotted end of the adjustment.
>
> 5) Locate and remove the four nuts and lockwashers that fasten the housing
> to the chassis.
>
> 6) Upright the chassis and remove the housing by wiggling and pulling
> straight up.
>
> Here are some steps you may wish to carry out while you have the thing
> apart:
>
> 0) Do NOT move any of the adjustments. OR, set them all to one
> orientation for re-assembly and be prepared to do a complete
> re-alignment. If the rods have become mis-aligned, do not be alarmed. It
> is possible to re-align all adjustment rods before fastening the housing
> with its nuts. Let the thing sit on the mis-aligned adjustments and turn
> each one to get it to snap into place. This is best done with the chassis
> in normal horizontal position.
>
> 1) Move the 18K VR tube dropping resistor outside the VFO housing.
>
> 2) Move the VR tube outside the VFO housing, or replace the VR tube with a
> suitably cooled or heat sunk solly state device.
>
> 3) Clean and apply DeOxit and/or ProGold to the variable capacitor ground
> wiper.
>
> 4) Apply a SMALL drop of oil to the VFO capacitor shaft at the front of the
> bushing.
>
> 5) Apply DeOxit and/or ProGold to the tube socket pins.
>
> 6) Test and replace the VFO tube with a new one.
>
> 7) Clean, lubricate, and treat with DeOxit and/or ProGold the Bandswitch.
>
> Upon reassembly:
>
> 1) Clean the bottom edge of the housing for good contact with the chassis..
> Similarly, clean the chassis at the are where the housing will contact
> it. A pencil with rubber eraser end is good for this. Vacuum out any
> abrasive residue.
>
> 2) Ensure that the adjustment rods are lined up with the adjustment devices
> in the VFO.
>
> 3) Reverse the removal procedure. (Hey, I copied that from a military
> manual that tells how to remove and replace a helicopter turbine engine.)
>
> 4) Ensure that the pilot lamp connections are restored and that the
> grounding strap is connected from the VFO housing top front to the rear top
> of the front panel.
>
> 5 If you replace the VFO tube with a new one, allow some hours of burn in
> before completing final frequency alignments (alinements sic.)
>
> Roy Morgan
> Keep em glowing! K1LKY since 1959
> 7130 Panorama Drive, Derwood MD 20855
> 301-330-8828
>
>
> ==============================
> From: "Rodger" <WQ9E at DTNSPEED.NET>
> To: <BOATANCHORS at LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV>
> Subject: Re: [BOATANCHORS-TEMPE] E F Johnson Question - Need parts
> Date: Saturday, January 27, 2007 12:13 PM
>
> Bruce,
>
> Sorry I cannot help you with a spare but when you find a new transformer
> carefully check the wiring from T2 to the 866 sockets. On earlier Valiants
> (both kit and factory) the wiring from the transformer to the 866 cathodes
> is standard hookup wire with very thin insulation which is not sufficient
> for the high voltage that appears. This wire will arc to ground where it
> runs near the chassis and blow fuses which is probably what was happening
> when the former owner decided to add the 20 amp fuse which then turned T2
> itself into a fuse (or smokebomb). If you have the standard hookup wire
> replace it with wire designed to carry higher voltage. If this is what
> happened, there is a small chance that T2 is okay except for the 5 volt
> winding being open. If T2 is otherwise okay, you can disconnect the 5 volt
> leads and use solid state replacements for the 866 rectifiers.
> Unfortunately, it is usually the transformer primary that gives up.
>
> Also, you should loosen the insulating coupler in the VFO drive before
> working on the Valiant. When you turn the Valiant upside down the front
> panel will try to flex and the coupler will try to resist this flexing-and
> lose. I found this out the hard way the first time I worked on a Valiant.
>
> The Valiant was my novice transmitter and I have a couple of them today.
> The 18K resistor in the VFO and the 866 cathode wiring are common problem
> areas. Also be aware that the meter shunts (particularly in kit built
> units) may be far from correct so you should check these for accuracy while
> going through the transmitter. Mouser and others have precision low value
> resistors you can use for shunt replacement. If the VFO tuning is stiff
> and/or does not feel smooth the ball reduction drive needs to be cleaned
> and
> lubricated. I have had to do this on one of my Valiants, both Rangers, and
> my Viking Pacemaker and I imagine my soon to arrive 500 will need this
> also.
> It is easy to clean, just keep track of the sequence of parts as you do
> disassembly. Some people have had problems with the fixed output loading
> capacitors but so far this has not affected any of my Johnson transmitters.
>
> Good luck with your repair!
>
> 73, Rodger WQ9E
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Boat Anchor Owners and Collectors List
>> [mailto:BOATANCHORS at LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV] On Behalf Of hudlerb1 at netzero.com
>> Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2007 8:40 AM
>> To: BOATANCHORS at LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV
>> Subject: E F Johnson Question - Need parts
>>
>> Hello,
>> Now that I am officially a true boat anchor owner, and a member of this
>> fabulous list, of
>> few questions please.
>> I've got a pretty nice Valiant I, but it needs repairing. Some idiot
>> put a
>> 20 amp NO BLOW
>> fuse in the primary of T2 and of course it is SMOKED. I think I'll have a
>> rough time
>> replacing this item, what do you folks suggest?
>> Is some one able to rewind the thing or just keep poking around for one
>> that is being
>> parted out. I think this is a common problem, so the remaining parts are
>> going to be
>> scarce and expensive.
>> Any other alternatives, such as two or more separate transformers?
>> Please help! I'd LOVE to get this thing on the air again.
>> Bruce WA3MKC
>>
> =====================================
> From: "Rodger" <wq9e at dtnspeed.net>
> To: "John King" <k5pgw at yahoo.com>
> Cc: <boatanchors at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Boatanchors] Valiant line cord
> Date: Friday, August 10, 2007 11:16 PM
>
> Hi John,
>
> You never quite know what you will find after years of "service". I use
> inline fuses installed under chassis to avoid drilling holes. You
> should only fuse the black lead in your new 3 wire installation and this
> is the lead that should go to the main power switch, the neutral lead
> should never be fused or switched. While you are in your Valiant, take
> a close look at the wiring from the low voltage transformer to the 866A
> cathodes. In early Valiants (both kit and factory wired) they used
> regular hook up wire which will often arc to the chassis given that it
> has the plate voltage also present on it and if this occurs it will take
> out your low voltage transformer. If it is regular wire either replace
> it with better grade wire or sleeve it with external tubing. Of course
> if you replace the 866A's with solid state replacements you can unhook
> these wires.
>
> Also, before you do any major work on the Valiant, loosen the screws on
> the insulating coupling in the VFO drive. Once the Valiant is out of
> the cabinet, the coupling will try to hold the front panel from flexing
> when it is turned over and the coupling loses every time! I had to
> rebuild the coupling on one of my Valiants after the previous owner
> learned this lesson the hard way.
>
> You might also want to replace the dropping resistor in the VFO assembly
> with a higher wattage unit if this has not been done yet.
>
> Enjoy the Valiant, I used one as a novice and it is still a favorite of
> mine.
>
> 73, Rodger WQ9E
>
> John King wrote:
>> Here is a Valiant story:
>>
>> Tonight I pulled a Valiant, that I bought two years
>> ago, out of the cabinet and was really suprised. I had
>> never plugged it in or attempted to use it. A previous
>> owner had removed the original line cord and the fused
>> plug on the end and replaced it. There was no strain
>> relief grommet and the solder connections were all
>> that were holding it.
>>
>> The line cord installed is a zip cord with molded two
>> prong AC plug on the end. It did not have a three wire
>> line cord or a three prong plug. To top it off THERE
>> WAS NOT A SIGN OF A FUSE BETWEEN THE TRANSFORMERS AND
>> THE AC WALL PLUG. I could not believe my eyes!!!!
>>
>> Now I will put a strain relief grommet and three wire
>> AC Cord on the Valiant. I will ground the green wire
>> to the chassis and fuse the other two wires by
>> installing fuse holders in the rear apron of the
>> Valiant.
>>
>> Hopefully the transformers and most parts are OK. I
>> will replace the electrolytics and a the coupling caps
>> as well as a few others.
>>
>> I am still shaken up by how someone rigged this thing
>> up and hopefully I can make it safe and reliable. 73,
>> John, K5PGW
>>
> From: "Ed Tanton" <n4xy at EARTHLINK.NET>
> To: <BOATANCHORS at LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV>
> Subject: Re: Help EFJ Ranger II VFO
> Date: Saturday, December 18, 2004 9:09 PM
>
> Keep in mind folks that there is a (relatively) simple way to replace the
> 18k resistor permanently. Open the compartment and SHORT the resistor with
> a soldered, insulated, jumper wire. This is much easier than trying to get
> another resistor into its place.
>
> You then find THE wire that goes into the VFO compartment (e.g. to that
> now-zero-ohm resistor) and interrupt it. Add a NEW ~10W (or more, total)
> 18k (total) 'resistor' (2 x 5k, 1 x 8k/etc. 3 to 5W each) in series with
> that wire and its original source. There was one spare terminal on a
> terminal strip somewhere nearby, and I then ran the resistor-combo from the
> source to that terminal strip, and attached the wire to the VFO compartment
> to the other end. Works like a champ.
>
> When I get some time, I am going to remove the 0A2 altogether from the VFO
> compartment, and add a combined 20-25W (5 x 20V 5W ea 1 10V 5W-or just
> leave it at 100V combined with the 5 20s) of zeners to that same
> resistor/VFO-wire junction; to ground.
>
> I have to go in anyway because the darn cam has slipped, and has to be
> reset/ remounted/ repositioned/ whatever; and since there's nothing like
> seeing the switch actually in the right place; and it wouldn't hurt to get
> in there and respray the contacts and relube the switch detent path, I
> might as well do it all.
>
> And... if I'm going to do that, I might as well remove that VR tube in the
> process (and add those zeners.) If I'm feeling REALLY ambitious, I'm going
> to 'select' the most stable 6AU6 I have out of the 5 or 6 new ones around
> here before I button the thing up again.
>
> And finally... as long as I'm going to do all that, I might as well drill
> and pin the darn cam to the shaft once it's 'right'. Unless someone has a
> better idea for permanently keeping that *%^#$*^$ cam in place?
>
>
>
>
> 73 Ed Tanton N4XY <n4xy at earthlink.net>
>
> Ed Tanton N4XY
> 189 Pioneer Trail
> Marietta, GA 30068-3466
>
> website: http://www.n4xy.com
> ===============================
>
> Al your memory is pretty good. I believe the resistor is an 18 K
> resistor and can be reached by removing the side of the VFO box. It is
> the left side when you are facing the radio panel that will expose the
> resistor..
>
> You can just clip the resistor out leaving a bit of the lead wire in
> place then solder new insulated wire to the remaining pieces on the
> terminal board and tube socket. You can then run new wires out of the
> hole in the chassis. If you move that resistor out of the box so it can
> cool with more air moving about, you can use a 2 watt. In my
> experience, you don't really need a 10 watt, but you can buy some carbon
> film 3 watt and it should be sufficient. The real key is to get that
> resistor out of the closed box where heat does build up and destroy it.
>
> If everything is all right with the VFO, it should not chirp. But I
> have heard many of them in past years that did. I have never explored
> why they do, but I have heard them back when they were new radios.
> Completely removing the VFO is a bit of a challenge and to do it, you
> will need to take the panel off. Sometimes the caps in the divider can
> be bad, they should be C 12, 13 and C 14 and 15 but that may not be the
> source of chirp. That could be something near the keying tube. If the
> VFO is oscillating, I would not go to the trouble to remove it just to
> explore. You might create more trouble than you have.
>
> There should be about 4 resistors associated with the keying tube, check
> their values against the book. As I recall the one in series with the
> wiper of the pot is about 1 meg. If it has gone high, then that could
> be part of the problem. The cathode of one section of the 12AU7 is
> attached to about 260 volts negative through a resistor of about 18K, be
> sure it is good. Even a dirty contact on the mode switch or keying pot
> could be the culprit.
>
> Good luck Dave.
>
> Jim
> W5JO
>
>
>> Hi Dave et al,
>> I don't see the Johnson list, so don't know what responses have
>> been there.
>> The Valiant/Ranger, etc., VFO's have a dropping resistor in the
>> line to the VR tube which is inside the VFO box IIRC. The resisitor
>> is abt 12k or 15k, 2 watts, and goes high in value as it gets very
>> hot. Then the VFO chirps. I can't remember if the resistor is inside
>> or outside of the box, but it should be mounted outside, and be a
>> 10watter if posible, at least 5w. Some guys have moved the VR tube out
>> of the box, but I think just getting the dropping resisstor out helps
>> the drift.
>> I suspect the 122 VFO is much the same. I've been into both the
>> Ranger
>> & Valiant to make the resistor change, without removing the VFO, but
>> it's
>> tight, and tough to get into it.
> It should not chirp. That dropping resistor usually fixes the chirp.
>> 73,
>> Al, W8UT,
>> New Bern, NC
>>
>>> All: I have several questions about the Valiant II VFO, inspired by the
>>> exchange on the 122 VFO a bit earlier. I've never gotten the pull
>>> out of
>>> this VFO; that won't help much if I want to run the SSB adapter with
>>> it.:
>>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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