[ILQSO] County Lines
Steven KA9MOT
ka9mot at gmail.com
Sat Oct 4 11:03:02 EDT 2014
Thanks Danny,
If I can get permission from the property owners, I'll set up there! :)
Steve KA9MOT
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Danny Pease <dpease at adams.net> wrote:
> As a WIARC and ILQP committee member, N9JF is as close to the "final
> authority" as anyone. Currently, others on that committee are NA9Q, WA9GBC
> and NG9R. Any email about the ILQP will wind up going to one of us anyway,
> very likely N9JF. Since N9JF is active on this email list, you will not
> gain
> anything by sending a direct email, unless you have something you want to
> discuss privately off the list.
>
> As WD9FMB showed us from the ILQP FAQ page (created by the ILQP committee),
> we expect everyone to be as near to the line/corner as safely possible and
> what Steve has proposed sounds to me like he is meeting those expectations.
>
>
> NG9R
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ILQSO [mailto:ilqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Kevin Gray
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 8:59 AM
> To: 'Illinois QSO Party'
> Subject: Re: [ILQSO] County Lines
>
> Steve,
> I believe you are correct (Nobody really knows) and that you have a good
> plan, according to the "ILQP Rules".
> I have seen references to MARAC as well as The USA-CA award sponsored by CQ
> magazine(no dis-respect for either group), however I do not see where
> either
> of these are listed in the rules for (or as sponsors of) the ILQP.
> (Starting with the 2006 ILQP, the WIARC has assumed the responsibility of
> sponsoring and administering the annual event.) Having been born and
> raised
> in Illinois, I know that Illinois marches to its own drum, and has its own
> rules.
> I believe the best answer was posted earlier (by Fritz) as stated in the
> "IL
> QSO FAQ's." {see Below}
>
> Any further clarification that is needed should be done by Sponsors of the
> ILQP.
> Western Illinois Amateur Radio Club, Inc.
> P.O. Box 3132
> Quincy, Illinois 62305-3132
> mailto:w9awe at arrl.net
> Just my opinion,
> 73 and good luck. Kevin, N9VPV (Hope to work you in the ILQP)
>
> > I think the IL QSO FAQ's do a great job on answering the question of a
> > county corner...nice and simple.....
> >
> > Q: I want to operate from a three or four county corner. I think I
> > know the exact location of the corner (from a map or posted signs),
> > but how close do I have to park to this spot to qualify?
> >
> > *A: The traditional answer to this has been: ?As close as possible,
> > keeping safety uppermost in mind.? To claim three or four counties,
> > the operator should 1) As nearly as possible, locate the exact corner;
> > 2) Find a safe spot as close as possible to the corner to set up the
> > station; 3) Obtain permission from land-owners if at all possible; 4)
> > Arrange portions of the antenna system to be physically placed in all
> > three (or four) counties if
> > possible.*
> >
> >
> >
> > Fritz Bock
> > WD9FMB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ILQSO [mailto:ilqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Steven
> KA9MOT
> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 9:43 PM
> To: Illinois QSO Party
> Subject: Re: [ILQSO] ILQSO Digest, Vol 102, Issue 2
>
> Thanks for all of the advice. I gather that nobody really knows for sure.
> My plan was/is to set up a station on the property that is right on the
> corner of the 3 county lines. Assuming the line is down the middle of the
> road, I would only be in Henderson County and 25 feet or so from McDonough
> and Warren Counties if the person who lives in the farmhouse pictured here:
> https://www.google.com/maps/@40.636685,-90.7889042,429m/data=!3m1!1e3
> will
> allow me to set up in the corner of the intersection (Northwest corner).
>
> I'm planning on running portable, off battery power and at QRP Power levels
> (5W) if I can do this and stay with-in the rules, and the property owner
> allows.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thanks again,
> Steve KA9MOT
>
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 5:51 PM, <ilqso-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
> > Send ILQSO mailing list submissions to
> > ilqso at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > ilqso-request at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > ilqso-owner at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of ILQSO digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: County Lines (Jim Funk)
> > 2. Lake County (Jim Lang)
> > 3. Grundy County (Brian S. McDaniel)
> > 4. COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES (Tom Pennebaker)
> > 5. Re: COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES (Danny Pease)
> > 6. Re: COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES (Fritz Bock)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 14:38:22 +0000
> > From: Jim Funk <jfunk at fossna.com>
> > To: Illinois QSO Party <ilqso at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [ILQSO] County Lines
> > Message-ID: <A90D277E-958E-44D0-B71E-B91E54FD0F65 at fossna.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Good points. Look for a culvert.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Oct 3, 2014, at 9:34 AM, "Danny Pease" <dpease at adams.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would be very leery of stringing an antenna that crosses a public
> > > road, many risks involved. Since there is an intersection of roads,
> > > there is likely overhead power lines, plus the traffic issue. IF
> > > power lines are
> > not
> > > an issue and IF you can get the antenna as high as or even higher
> > > than
> > power
> > > lines normally are, you might get by with it, once it was up, but
> > > even getting it up could be dangerous. Even running a radial laying
> > > across a
> > road
> > > could be disastrous if a passing vehicle manage to catch hold of it.
> > > You
> > may
> > > look for a steel culvert and attach some part of the antenna system
> > > to
> > that.
> > >
> > > NG9R
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ILQSO [mailto:ilqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Jim
> > > Funk
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 2:50 AM
> > > To: Illinois QSO Party
> > > Subject: Re: [ILQSO] County Lines
> > >
> > > Steve, I will take a stab at this since you asked....
> > >
> > > From DeLorme, it seems obvious that there is such a county corner.
> > >
> > > There appears to be access to said corner by car as the corner is at
> > > the intersection of 2100E and CR 2400 N.
> > >
> > > If I were you, I would set up as close to the intersection as
> > > possible (SAFETY CONSIDERED) and string a portion of an antenna
> > > (could be a counterpoise or overhead dipole) in such a manner that
> > > the
> "station"
> > > (including antennas) is actually in all three counties.
> > >
> > > I believe that would meet the letter and the spirit of the event rules.
> > >
> > > 73, Jim N9JF
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ILQSO [mailto:ilqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> > > Steven KA9MOT
> > > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2014 1:22 AM
> > > To: Illinois QSO Party
> > > Subject: [ILQSO] County Lines
> > >
> > > I am seriously considering setting up a Portable station on the
> > Henderson,
> > > McDonough and Warren County lines this year, if I can get permission
> > > from the property line.
> > >
> > > My question is, how far (in feet) can you be away from the actual
> > > line, before you are no longer considered to be on the County Line?
> > >
> > > Thanks for your time,
> > >
> > > Steve KA9MOT
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > ILQSO mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > ILQSO mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > ILQSO mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 13:15:21 -0500
> > From: "Jim Lang" <jimlang at comcast.net>
> > To: <ilqso at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: [ILQSO] Lake County
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > I will be set up at home in Lake County.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jim / KD9GY
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 13:24:30 -0500
> > From: "Brian S. McDaniel" <bsm60403 at gmail.com>
> > To: ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: [ILQSO] Grundy County
> > Message-ID: <542EE9DE.1050807 at gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > The Rainbow Council Boy Scouts will be on the air for Jamboree on the
> > Air on the same day as the Illinois QSO Party.
> >
> > Look for K9RSR on 80/40/20/10 from EN51th. Hope to work you all.
> > --
> > 73,
> >
> > Brian McDaniel
> > KC4LMD
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2014 14:55:34 -0500
> > From: Tom Pennebaker <n4rs at iamotelephone.com>
> > To: ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: [ILQSO] COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES
> > Message-ID: <542EFF36.1050105 at iamotelephone.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > */The Rules/*
> >
> > *The USA-CA award sponsored by CQ magazine
> > <http://members.aol.com/cqmagazine/usacarul.htm> makes no mention of
> > county lines in the rules.*
> >
> > *The major county hunting organization MARAC (Mobile Amateur Radio
> > Awards Club) also issues many county hunting awards. In 2000 they
> > issued the following rules for county lines: *
> >
> > *A county-line is that legally defined boundary separating two
> > geographic and/or administrative regions. The best evidence of the
> > location of a county-line is the marker permanently placed beside a
> > highway. The marker will be assumed to be correctly placed for
> > county-hunting purposes, except for those at wet lines.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *Other devices may be found on secondary roadways, such as, a cattle
> > gate, or a monument placed in the fence line. Frequently, too,
> > changes in the composition of the roadway surface are a indication
> > of county boundaries. For county hunting purposes, when no other
> > means of identifying a county line is available, these markers may
> > be used.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *With the degradation of GPS having been turned off on 1 May 2000,
> > GPS may be useful as an aid in locating county-lines. While the
> > accuracy of GPS is now a nominal +/- 20 meters, it may be relied
> > upon only when other markers and evidence are not apparent.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *A county-line may be run with credit being given for both counties.
> > A part of the vehicle must be in each of the counties. Thus, a
> > county-line may not be credited if the mobile is in motion.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *A county-line may be wet, that is, a watercourse (river, lake,
> > water reservoir, creek, brook, stream) may cover the legally
> > described boundary.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *A wet line may be run for county-hunting credit as long as the
> > County Line can be located as described above and can be run
> > SAFELY.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *Three and four county lines may not be run simultaneously for
> > county-hunting credit...........................Tom N4RS
> > *
> >
> > ************
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 16:09:06 -0500
> > From: "Danny Pease" <dpease at adams.net>
> > To: "'Illinois QSO Party'" <ilqso at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [ILQSO] COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES
> > Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Even MARAC gives no distance, they simply state a vehicle must occupy
> > both counties and do not allow more than two counties to be occupied
> > at the same time.
> >
> > Since most portable operations do not operate out of a vehicle, it
> > might be easier to have parts of the operation on two counties or more
> > at the same time, but doing so safely is almost impossible when it
> > comes to a road being involved. Because of the ILQSO rules allow for
> > more than two counties at a time to be activated, there has to be a
> > little bit of leeway in what is close enough for the sake of safety.
> >
> > Besides that, we do not want to discourage our multi-county operations
> > from going out by forcing them into a dangerous situation. I suppose
> > we ought to set a number of feet as being close enough to make it a
> > little
> clearer.
> >
> > MARAC mentions an accuracy of 20 meters as being acceptable when using
> > a GPS. Maybe that would be a good starting point, but that does
> > require you know the exact intersection to measure from, another
> variable.
> >
> > NG9R
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ILQSO [mailto:ilqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom
> > Pennebaker
> > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 2:56 PM
> > To: ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > Subject: [ILQSO] COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES
> >
> > */The Rules/*
> >
> > *The USA-CA award sponsored by CQ magazine
> > <http://members.aol.com/cqmagazine/usacarul.htm> makes no mention of
> > county lines in the rules.*
> >
> > *The major county hunting organization MARAC (Mobile Amateur Radio
> > Awards
> > Club) also issues many county hunting awards. In 2000 they issued the
> > following rules for county lines: *
> >
> > *A county-line is that legally defined boundary separating two
> > geographic and/or administrative regions. The best evidence of the
> > location of a county-line is the marker permanently placed beside a
> > highway. The marker will be assumed to be correctly placed for
> > county-hunting purposes, except for those at wet lines.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *Other devices may be found on secondary roadways, such as, a cattle
> > gate, or a monument placed in the fence line. Frequently, too,
> > changes in the composition of the roadway surface are a indication
> > of county boundaries. For county hunting purposes, when no other
> > means of identifying a county line is available, these markers may
> > be used.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *With the degradation of GPS having been turned off on 1 May 2000,
> > GPS may be useful as an aid in locating county-lines. While the
> > accuracy of GPS is now a nominal +/- 20 meters, it may be relied
> > upon only when other markers and evidence are not apparent.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *A county-line may be run with credit being given for both counties.
> > A part of the vehicle must be in each of the counties. Thus, a
> > county-line may not be credited if the mobile is in motion.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *A county-line may be wet, that is, a watercourse (river, lake,
> > water reservoir, creek, brook, stream) may cover the legally
> > described boundary.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *A wet line may be run for county-hunting credit as long as the
> > County Line can be located as described above and can be run
> > SAFELY.*
> >
> > **
> >
> > *Three and four county lines may not be run simultaneously for
> > county-hunting credit...........................Tom N4RS
> > *
> >
> > ************
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > ILQSO mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> > list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2014 17:51:10 -0500
> > From: Fritz Bock <wd9fmb at gmail.com>
> > To: Illinois QSO Party <ilqso at mailman.qth.net>
> > Subject: Re: [ILQSO] COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES
> > Message-ID:
> > <CAH9akk1PkjgR050birVieNHD7JmXpY=o23Z-Ru0JGmv-mRO_=
> > g at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > I think the IL QSO FAQ's do a great job on answering the question of a
> > county corner...nice and simple.....
> >
> > Q: I want to operate from a three or four county corner. I think I
> > know the exact location of the corner (from a map or posted signs),
> > but how close do I have to park to this spot to qualify?
> >
> > *A: The traditional answer to this has been: ?As close as possible,
> > keeping safety uppermost in mind.? To claim three or four counties,
> > the operator should 1) As nearly as possible, locate the exact corner;
> > 2) Find a safe spot as close as possible to the corner to set up the
> > station; 3) Obtain permission from land-owners if at all possible; 4)
> > Arrange portions of the antenna system to be physically placed in all
> > three (or four) counties if
> > possible.*
> >
> >
> >
> > Fritz Bock
> > WD9FMB
> > 309-256-2297
> > IL ARES District 7, DEC
> > Peoria County ARES EC
> > www.peoriacountyares.org
> > www.W9UVI.org
> > ARRL PIO, IL Section
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Danny Pease <dpease at adams.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Even MARAC gives no distance, they simply state a vehicle must
> > > occupy
> > both
> > > counties and do not allow more than two counties to be occupied at
> > > the
> > same
> > > time.
> > >
> > > Since most portable operations do not operate out of a vehicle, it
> > > might
> > be
> > > easier to have parts of the operation on two counties or more at the
> > > same time, but doing so safely is almost impossible when it comes to
> > > a road being involved. Because of the ILQSO rules allow for more
> > > than two counties
> > at a
> > > time to be activated, there has to be a little bit of leeway in what
> > > is close enough for the sake of safety.
> > >
> > > Besides that, we do not want to discourage our multi-county
> > > operations
> > from
> > > going out by forcing them into a dangerous situation. I suppose we
> > > ought
> > to
> > > set a number of feet as being close enough to make it a little clearer.
> > >
> > > MARAC mentions an accuracy of 20 meters as being acceptable when
> > > using a GPS. Maybe that would be a good starting point, but that
> > > does require you know the exact intersection to measure from,
> > > another
> variable.
> > >
> > > NG9R
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: ILQSO [mailto:ilqso-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Tom
> > > Pennebaker
> > > Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 2:56 PM
> > > To: ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > > Subject: [ILQSO] COUNTY LINES by MARAC RULES
> > >
> > > */The Rules/*
> > >
> > > *The USA-CA award sponsored by CQ magazine
> > > <http://members.aol.com/cqmagazine/usacarul.htm> makes no mention of
> > > county lines in the rules.*
> > >
> > > *The major county hunting organization MARAC (Mobile Amateur Radio
> > > Awards
> > > Club) also issues many county hunting awards. In 2000 they issued
> > > the following rules for county lines: *
> > >
> > > *A county-line is that legally defined boundary separating two
> > > geographic and/or administrative regions. The best evidence of the
> > > location of a county-line is the marker permanently placed beside a
> > > highway. The marker will be assumed to be correctly placed for
> > > county-hunting purposes, except for those at wet lines.*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *Other devices may be found on secondary roadways, such as, a
> cattle
> > > gate, or a monument placed in the fence line. Frequently, too,
> > > changes in the composition of the roadway surface are a indication
> > > of county boundaries. For county hunting purposes, when no other
> > > means of identifying a county line is available, these markers may
> > > be used.*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *With the degradation of GPS having been turned off on 1 May 2000,
> > > GPS may be useful as an aid in locating county-lines. While the
> > > accuracy of GPS is now a nominal +/- 20 meters, it may be relied
> > > upon only when other markers and evidence are not apparent.*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *A county-line may be run with credit being given for both
> counties.
> > > A part of the vehicle must be in each of the counties. Thus, a
> > > county-line may not be credited if the mobile is in motion.*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *A county-line may be wet, that is, a watercourse (river, lake,
> > > water reservoir, creek, brook, stream) may cover the legally
> > > described boundary.*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *A wet line may be run for county-hunting credit as long as the
> > > County Line can be located as described above and can be run
> > > SAFELY.*
> > >
> > > **
> > >
> > > *Three and four county lines may not be run simultaneously for
> > > county-hunting credit...........................Tom N4RS
> > > *
> > >
> > > ************
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > ILQSO mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > ILQSO mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ILQSO mailing list
> > ILQSO at mailman.qth.net
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ilqso
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of ILQSO Digest, Vol 102, Issue 2
> > *************************************
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> ILQSO mailing list
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>
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