[HIham] Fw: [karc-l] BPL issues: Ed Hare, W1RFI advice
Kevin C. Bogan
kbogan at hawaii.rr.com
Tue Nov 16 04:54:08 EST 2004
RE: [karc-l] BPL issues: Measure noise floor now before testing startsEd Hare has points for us to consider.
Kevin, AH6QO
----- Original Message -----
From: Hare, Ed W1RFI
To: Joe Speroni
Cc: Bogan, Kevin (SM,PAC)
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2004 11:39 PM
Subject: RE: [karc-l] BPL issues: Measure noise floor now before testing starts
Hi, Joe,
If BPL is going to come to Hawaii, from an amteur radio point of view, that may be the lesser of the possible evils. Current Technologies uses "HomePlug" modems on the low-voltage wiring and low VHF on the medium-voltage lines. The modems radiate only from building wiring and, to some extent, from the overhead 220/110 V wiring strung between transformers and houses. They are also quiet except when in actual use. They occupy from 4 to 20 MHz, but more important, they notch all of the ham bands by 30 dB, except for 60 meters. This gives them a smaller interference potential than some of the other systems.
This does, of course, present a testing challenge. If one goes to a residential neighborhood when no one is surfing the web, one might find the neighborhood quiet. Naturally, at that time, there is no interfernce to report. At -30 dB, mobile stations might not hear BPL at all in the ham bands, and the real interference potential would be to the home station with outdoor antennas on HF; that station may see a few dB to perhaps 20 dB of degradation of the local noise floor, although possibly at a level not strong enough to move the S meter, but strong enough to cover up some amateur signals. On 60 meters, WWV and shortwave broadcast spectrum, the HomePlug modems make as much noise near a house carrying their signals as any other BPL, but generally with a more localized interference footprint.
Naturally, this makes testing these systems for interference quite the challenge. It might be necessary to find an amateur in the test area willing to sign up for the service and have him set up a streaming video or three to keep a BPL signal "on the air" for test purposes.
The real questions to ask about any system that "notches" to protect amateur radio:
o How will HECO address situations where the amount of notching available is not adequate to protect an individual amateur station
o How will HECO address interference to the 60-meter amateur band?
o How will HECO addresss interference to WWV or international shortwave broadcast listening?
o HECO should be made aware that the BPL system uses VHF for its backbone, possibly between 30 and 50 MHz, or on an "unused" TV channel. Current Technologies would not answer my questions about what frequencies they use on VHF, and until they do, we have to make utilities aware that the interference potential to VHF could be anywhere.
In a Current Technologies system, CB should not be affected.
Equally important, testing in Potomac, MD indicates that their equipment is susceptible to interference from amateur signals of as little as a few watts. So add to the list:
o How will HECO help explain to neibhbors of radio operators that interfernce from Amateur Radio is caused by inadequacies in the BPL equipment and that under FCC rules, that interference is not protected?
I didn't put this information on ARRL's web page intentionally. The BPL industry spin doctors take any evidence that BPL may not cause interference under some circumstances and use that to "prove" that BPL doesn't cause interference ever. You would hardly believe some of the things that UPLC and PLCA have said to present the case that BPL doesn't cause interference.
Just as an example, the story about the 5 hams is related to PPL in Allentown, PA, on an entirely different system. Three of the four hams are in areas of underground electrical wiring, and one reports about 6 dB of degradation on his ability to receive signals when his beam is pointed toward the BPL system about a mile away. But the count him as "fixed," too. Unfortunately, the hams in Allentown are NOT being proactive about testing the interference potential of BPL. I was there about two months ago and heard strong BPL interference on ham bands all over the area. See http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/Allentown/Map.pdf. I was in "Area #3" only, but monitored BPL interference in band after band as I drove through the area. I covered an area whose end points were separated by 4 miles or so.
To look at the noise floor before testing starts, see:
http://www.arrl.org/~ehare/bpl/measurements.html
Pass this on to any BPL teams that are put together in Hawaii.
73,
Ed Hare, W1RFI
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Speroni [mailto:joe at speroni.com]
Sent: Tue 11/16/2004 3:08 AM
To: Hare, Ed W1RFI
Cc: Bogan, Kevin (SM,PAC)
Subject: RE: [karc-l] BPL issues: Measure noise floor now before testing starts
Ed, I spent some time on Internet trying to understand the technology and
business structures of Concurrent Communications. I was surprised that they
have published prices for 1/2/3 Mbps connections for service in Cincinnati
that would be marginally competitive with cable and DSL in Hawaii.
http://www.current.net/ServiceAndPricing/Residential/PricingAndBenefits/
This company is apparently related to the one that would be working with
HECO.
From the talk that Kevin attended, they are confident of low noise levels.
I tried to find information on their technology/equipment on ARRL web site
and was unsuccessful. Could you point me to any articles on Current
Communications tests on the mainland and equipment specifications?
Aloha,
Joe/AH0A
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-karc-l at pilikia.net [mailto:owner-karc-l at pilikia.net] On Behalf
Of Kevin C. Bogan
Sent: Sunday, November 14, 2004 11:48 AM
To: hamradiohawaii; Hawaii Ham; karc-l at pilikia.net
Cc: John Buck; Ron Phillips; Bob Schneider; Melvin Fukunaga, KH6H; Dennis
Niles, KH6XT; Alfred Darling, WH6KS
Subject: [karc-l] BPL issues: Measure noise floor now before testing starts
On July 28, I attended a luncheon sponsored by the Hawaii Telecommunications
Association (HTCA) at which Rick Stuller, CIO, Information Technology &
Services, Hawaiian Electric Company, Inc. presented on BPL. One of our
local hams knows him well and introduced me to him. Rick and my friend had
me seated at the reserved table with them. Rick is very friendly and
through out the presentation pointed out how HECO is working to make BPL
not a problem to hams. Other hams were in the audience.
He explained how O'ahu will have energy problems in the near future unless
we conserve energy and manage it better. Being able to monitor energy uses
at premises over BPL is one application. Of course, the other is having a
company/vendor develop BPL for residential and commercial premises.
What I learned is that HECO has worked with Pacific Gas & Electric on BPL.
They are working with Potomac Power which uses the same vendor and
technology: Current Communications Group
(http://www.currentgroup.com/OurCompany/CompanyProfile/). CCG would run the
BPL business. Rick stated that CCG had worked with hams on this They are
supported by Cox and Panasonic. On the diagram I saw "2-60 MHz BPL signals
OFDM (Orthogonal Frequency Digital Multiplex, if I wrote it correctly) - Ham
carries notched." He went on to show and explain how the BPL signal would
start from a back haul point and go out on 12k lines into the community with
bridges over the transformers. The ham bands would have medium and low
voltage notches. The BPL into the premises would be on medium voltage lines
with 2-3 MPSec speed, raw speed of 6. Next year, they plan to go to a raw
speed of 100 with 60-70 MB/sec throughput into the premises.
Because they use it for monitoring electrical usage, the system has been on
24/7 for a while now. There are five homes within a half mile of the
McCully Substation that are using BPL. Future plans are for testing of
1,000 homes. The actual unit used on the premise is Netgear's Home Plug.
Rick stated that hams had worked with it. He told of a case where five hams
had complained of it on the mainland. One ham's problem turned out not to
be BPL and the other four now subscribe to the service and use Home Plug.
Rick stated that when techs go in to analyze the signal they cannot hear it.
It is down in the noise. He stated that they have to be taught what to look
for and given special equipment to discover the BPL signal.
After the presentation, I swept the neighborhood around the McCully
Substation. All I heard was the usual noise. The neighborhood is mixed
residential with a shopping mall next to the substation. I used an IC-706
MK II (G), Ironhorse stick antenna in the middle of the top of my car. I
scanned the 20m band with my 20m stick antenna. I also scanned with the
same antenna on 40, 15, and 10. I heard nothing. I tuned to WWVH on 10 MHz
and went through the neighborhood again. I heard the NIST time hack and
report through the usual noise. I next rode out of the test area through a
similar area of the greater neighborhood and only heard the usual noise. I
kept monitoring the time hack as I drove back to work in Hawaii Kai (East
Honolulu). The usual noise only abated somewhat as I drove clear of the
heavily residential area with the overhead lines. Hawaii Kai has the lines
below ground for the most part. I believe Kapolei where the other test site
is located also has its lines underground.
Please pass to me any questions you may have and I will talk with Rick about
it.
I and my friend asked Rick if he would speak at the Ko'olau ARC and
Emergency ARC club meetings on BPL. He said he knew he would be inundated
with very technical questions and would like to wait until the CCG engineer
comes out again, so that both could come and explain it.
The CCG website gives this profile of their company:
"Current Communications is the nation's premier BPL service provider,
offering broadband services to residential and small business customers
primarily utilizing BPL equipment and technology provided by its affiliate
Current TechnologiesTM.
The service, Current BroadbandTM, is an "always on," high speed Internet
access connection that customers access by plugging their computer into the
existing power outlets in any room of their home or small business through a
special power line modem. Current Broadband service provides the same high
speed connection when sending and receiving information and allows multiple
computers inside a home or business to access the Internet simultaneously.
Current Communications works closely with electric utility companies in
installing BPL technology on electric distribution lines to provide
broadband services using Current Technologies BPL equipment. "
What we need NOW is to measure the noise floor before the testing goes wide
spread. Please take off any filters, noise blankers, etc. and listen to the
different bands. Keep a detailed log of bands, time of day, S-unit strength
of noise, any strange sounds (with freq). When we complain that we have
interference, we will be able to show how we know it is interference. I
have been told that HECO is committed to making BPL work. Please do not
attack them. We will be as assertive as necessary.
We need to form BPL teams for each island. Mike Burger, AH7R; Walt
Niemczura, AH6QO; John Peters, N1ER; and a few others have indicated that
they would like to be part of the team or O'ahu. Please let me know if you
wish to join this team and let me know at what level of involvement you will
work as I am looking for an individual to lead the team. The team will also
be working with Ed Hare, W1RFI. Many individuals have provided info as
things have occurred, thank you. Now is the time to make this a concerted,
coordinated effort.
I know that Bob Schneider, AH6J, has been very active on the Big Island.
Those on the BI, please contact Bob directly (ah6j at arrl.net)
I suggest that the team be the focal point of information, queries, advice,
etc. instead of inundating the various email reflectors. Then the team
leader can issue advisories, bulletins, and reports in a concise and
coherent manner.
If this effort develops a large enough mass, I will create a yahoogroup to
facilitate the communications.
I will send this message out on the ARRL email server for the subscribed
members and will include the recent information that has been published
about the upcoming expanded testing on O'ahu. I apologize if you receive
multiple copies of this message.
Kevin C. Bogan, AH6QO
ARRL Pacific Section Manager and Section Emergency Coordinator
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