[Heathkit] SHIPPING DAMAGE

Thu, 22 Jan 2004 01:14:17 -0500

John, 

With all due respect, UPS is very good about paying claims. I have shipped with
them for thirty years and NEVER had a claim denied, regardless of the amount.
However, it was packed properly and in accord with UPS standards. I had
everything documented. I have even collected when there was no visible physical
damage to the box or the item, due to concussion. If you have a valid claim,
with supporting documentation and evidence, you will be paid every single time. 

I get tired of all of these horror stories about UPS being so terrible. Granted,
sometimes a particular driver screws up and something is damaged or destroyed.
Unfortunate, but IF it was packed properly, and your claim is a valid one with
supporting evidence, you will collect.	

However, it is not the person receiving the item who gets paid, but the person
who is the shipper who insured it. The shipper is responsible for paying the
buyer after UPS, or the post office, pays them. 		

The single greatest problem is the person doing the shipping. In almost every
signle case, the item was not packed properly. The minimum burst strength box
was not used, let alone a heavier one. The box was not double walled and
corregated. Foam peanuts were used as cushioning insulation when the item had
more than ten pounds of weight to it. Foam peanuts unless heavily compressed,
will shift when the item has enough weight to press against them with some
force. Hence, they should not be used when anything of weight is being shipped. 

There is supposed to be at least two inches of cushioning on all sides of the
item. It will not save the item from a hard puncture, but it will save it if the
box is pushed in two inches! 		

The item should be heavily wrapped in bubble warap, many layers of it. Not a few
times around as most people do. This does absolutely nothing to cushion against
a shock. This takes many layers! 	

Frankly, most buyers, or the shippers, are too cheap to spend the money to pack
the item properly. They will spend hundreds of dollars to buy it, but complain
because it costs $45 to pack and ship it! If it is worth buying, then it is
worth packing properly! 	

None of the shippers are perfect.  But unlike the post office which almost never
pays a claim for damage or a loss, and if they do it takes many months to
collect, and a lot of hastles, UPS has had a check in my hand in three weeks
without fail. 	

There is no guaranteee when you ship anything, no matter who the carrier is. The
best packed item can be damaged or destroyed given the right conditions. Damage
will occur, items will be destroyed and some will be lost. No matter what. It is
a risk you take. However, if you properly pack it in accordance with UPS
guidelines, you will collect if the unfortunate does happen. 		

The biggest problem is with heavier objects. You can not just put them in a box
and park that one insdide a larger box and call this 'double boxing'! Absolutely
useless! That item has to be heavily wrapped in protective foam, bubble wrap or
whatever before it goes into that inner box to protect it. The quarter inch
thick cardboard walls protect it from no concussion, no shock, almost nothing.  

Then that inner box is placed in the center of a box with two inches of
protective packing on all sides, which includes top and bottom. If the inner box
can move, it is not properly packed. Heavy items move to the side of the outer
box and get damaged. If you want damage, fill that two inches with foam peanuts!

This issue comes up every few months, the same horror stories get told, the same
good advice gets given, and as usual, ignored!  	

Go read the archives, they are full of packing complaints, good suggestions how
to prevent them and the cycle keeps on happening. 	

I refuse to ship anything of value with the postal service, because of their
terrible insurance claims record. I actually received a letter with a claim
denial telling me how to file a lawsuit against them! This came from the St.
Louis, MO office of the postal insurance division.	

The postal employees tell me they won't ship anything worth more than twenty
dollars with the post office, and they work there! The UPS people tell me they
won't ship anything with UPS because of mishandling. And on it goes - 	

With all due fairness to the postal service and UPS, the incidence of loss or
damage is extremely low when one considers the volume of items handled in a
single day. Which is of no consolation when 'YOUR' item is the one in fifty
thousand that gets damaged! 	

The post office uses FedX for priority mail and UPS now uses the post office to
transport some packages! And FedX? They use UPS! So there is no getting around
it people, get real. Pack it right and it will make the trip almost every time
without damage or destruction. I can guarantee you if you do not pack it
properly it won't arrive safe and sound. 	

Spend ten dollars and wrap the heck out of the item with bubble wrap. Get the
right burst strength boxes for the weight of the item being shippped, not just
whatever you can buy three for five dollars at Staples or Office Max! Use good
shipping tape, not some cheap junk that falls off when you look away for more
than five seconds. If you can peel it off without taking the top layer of
cardboard off with it, it is junk tape people! You can buy a good roll of
shipping tape that is UPS approved at many places for $2.99 so spend a few
dollars!	

Simply put, gripe less and pack better! Stop blaming the shippers when better
than 90% of the time it is either you, or whomever else packed it, that is at
fault for the poor job that resulted in damage to the contents. 	

This discussion is circular, it is never ending. However, if you want your item
to arrive intact and without damage, then do the packing right in the first
place and stop griping.	

Duane Fischer, W8DBF	

----------
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: [Heathkit] SHIPPING DAMAGE
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:19 AM

Hi everyone.

I have specified how I wanted an item packed and shipped many times both by 
email and even in a phone call.  I was always told something to the effect of 
"don't worrk, I know how to pack this stuff."  I don't need to tell you what 
finally arrived and the shape it was in.

There are a couple of ways around this.  The very best, although expensive 
way is to use the infamous auction site's escrow payment system.  You send your 
payment to them and they don't release it until you receive the goods. If 
there is a problem, they iron things out.  The other way is via credit card. Not

as good, but certainly cheaper than escrow.

Don't think that insurance will cover the loss. UPS is famous for claiming 
improper packing as an excuse to avoid damage claims.  They have even done this 
in several instances where the shipper took the item to the UPS terminal and 
paid to have their people box it and foam it in place. Damage occured and they 
denied the claim due to improper packing.  Their method is to continue to deny 
the claim, hoping you will eventually tire and go away.  Unfortunately, this 
is what happens much of the time because folks don't have time to fight it.  
If you take it to small claims court with plenty of evidence, you can usually 
win a judgement against them and they will pay. Takes time, effort and a bit of 
money, but is sure feels good to win against the big guys.  The really bad 
thing is that when a once fine piece of vintage gear gets smashed, no amount of 
money will cure the anguish.

73, 

John,  W4AWM

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