From kerryk5ks at hughes.net Sat Nov 1 10:37:21 2014 From: kerryk5ks at hughes.net (Kerry Sandstrom) Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 09:37:21 -0500 Subject: [HCARC] Heathkit SA-2040 Antenna Tuner for sale Message-ID: <5454F021.8070107@hughes.net> I have a Heathkit SA-2040 Antenna Tuner for sale. I've had it about 20 years and used it for my 2nd station in Colorado. It hasn't been used in the last 5 years. Heathkit rated it for 2 kW PEP and 1 kW CW. It isn't exactly small. Its dimensions are 6" high X 14" wide X 14" deep. It doesn't weigh very much. There are a few scratches on the top cover but the front and rear panels are very good and the interior is immaculate. It has coax input and coax, single or parallel wire outputs. It has an internal 4:1 balun for the single and parallel wire outputs. I never used the single or parallel wire outputs. It comes with a copy of the manual on CD. Price is $125. If interested, send me an e-mail. The circuit is the "Ultimate Transmatch" from QST/ARRL Haqndbook. It has a variable inductor with counter dial and single section capacitor and two section capacitor high voltage air dielectric capacitors. Kerry, K5KS From w5lew at reagan.com Tue Nov 4 13:15:53 2014 From: w5lew at reagan.com (Lew King) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:15:53 -0700 Subject: [HCARC] Christmasa Party date Message-ID: <004d01cff85b$5f8926d0$1e9b7470$@com> Hey guys and gals, What's the date for our Christmas Party this year? I want to put it on my calendar. 73 & DX Lew WLEW Currently camping at the Kville KOA From hcarc at mailman.qth.net Tue Nov 4 16:47:18 2014 From: hcarc at mailman.qth.net (Don Murray via HCARC) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:47:18 -0500 Subject: [HCARC] Check out WLW's 500,000 Watt Transmitter - YouTube Message-ID: <95325.33f24de0.418aa366@aol.com> _Click here: WLW's 500,000 Watt Transmitter - YouTube_ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbHjcwIoTiY) From tower2 at stx.rr.com Tue Nov 4 22:06:10 2014 From: tower2 at stx.rr.com (Harvey N. Vordenbaum) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 21:06:10 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Christmasa Party date In-Reply-To: <004d01cff85b$5f8926d0$1e9b7470$@com> References: <004d01cff85b$5f8926d0$1e9b7470$@com> Message-ID: <001901cff8a5$7387ddd0$5a979970$@rr.com> 12:30 P.M. Sat. Dec. 6 First Presbyterian Church Ryan Hall. Hv -----Original Message----- From: HCARC [mailto:hcarc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Lew King Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2014 12:16 PM To: 'Hill Country Amateur Radio Club' Subject: [HCARC] Christmasa Party date Hey guys and gals, What's the date for our Christmas Party this year? I want to put it on my calendar. 73 & DX Lew WLEW Currently camping at the Kville KOA ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Wed Nov 5 20:32:59 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:32:59 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] October 2014 Minutes Message-ID: <0460604782F64461959FB68853714EC1@GaryPC> HILL COUNTRY AMATEUR RADIO CLUB Meeting Minutes 2 October 2014 MEETING COMMENCEMENT The meeting was called to order by President Terry Hipskind (W0HIP) who led us in the Pledge Of Allegiance. There were 26 people in attendance with 1 guest Bill Nichols (unlicensed). MEMBER AND GUEST RECOGNITION President Hipskind explained the 50/50 and gave out tickets to the following people for having helped during the past month: Barb and Pete Schuyler (N9NM, N9OF respectively) for providing goodies for the break and to Mort McKenzie (WB2GEU) for sugar free goodies, Gary Johnson thanked Tony Moore (KG5AAO) and Gordon Green (KG5DKI) for assisting in taking down the R-7 antenna which was provided to Alan Cone (K5AFC) The September 2014 minutes were posted and approved. The Treasurers report was read and approved OLD BUSINESS The Large amount of radio gear from Hollis estate was sold at the Sept meeting netting $182.00 for the Charles Pharis Repeater Maintenance Fund. After all the maintenance done this last summer to the repeater there is a balance of $665 in the fund. NEW BUSINESS Remember election of new officers in November. This is your chance to pay others back for service they have provided to you and/or pay in advance for service you may receive in the future. Not only the above, but you can have a greater influence on the direction the club goes when you are a club officer. Cactus rose 100 mile marathon at the Bandera Wildlife Mgmt area. Jan 10-11 Ultra Marathon in Bandera The Christmas Party will be held at the 1st Presbyterian Church Social Hall (same wonderful venue as the last two years) on the first Saturday in December, the 6th, at 12:30 pm. Please attend and RSVP to Marilyn Vordenbaum (KE5DDR) at mampaw at stx.rr.com so she has an accurate headcount. REMINDER, THERE IS NO REGULAR CLUB MEETING IN DECEMBER!! BREAK FOR REFRESHMENTS FROM Barb, Pete, and Mort. The presentation was by John Huecksteadt (AC4CA) and Don Murray (W4WJ) on Contesting with a particular slant for participation in the upcoming ARRL Sweepstakes contest CW 1-3 Nov and SSB 15-17 Nov. The ARRL Sweepstakes is the oldest domestic contest in operation since 1930. 50/50 was won by Submitted: Gary Johnson N5BAA HCARC Secretary 2013/14 From cw4evr at hctc.net Sat Nov 8 00:28:01 2014 From: cw4evr at hctc.net (Fred Gilmore) Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 23:28:01 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] test Message-ID: <24DBCA3E3EB44133B6DBE433D1D85A67@ham296dac95944> test From cw4evr at hctc.net Sun Nov 9 23:34:56 2014 From: cw4evr at hctc.net (Fred Gilmore) Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:34:56 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] SK Message-ID: I received the following from the MARS group today. It is with great sadness that I report to you the passing of John Hudman, AE5RK. John was the past Texas Army MARS State Director and a friend who lived in Terra Linda. Lately he spent most of his time in the Houston area due to his illness. Preliminary arrangements have been made at the Hayes Funeral Home in Santa Fe TX, Saturday, November 15th. From w5lew at reagan.com Fri Nov 14 08:04:36 2014 From: w5lew at reagan.com (Lew King) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:04:36 -0700 Subject: [HCARC] Vets Message-ID: <001801d0000b$8aeecb10$a0cc6130$@com> Hey, I was proud of our vets at the Hams Coffee a couple of days ago. We appreciate your service to our country. Lew W5LEW From kerryk5ks at hughes.net Sat Nov 15 06:42:56 2014 From: kerryk5ks at hughes.net (Kerry Sandstrom) Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 05:42:56 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Solar Activity Message-ID: <54673C40.7080400@hughes.net> The large, largest in several years, sunspot group that produced 6 X-class flares during its last passage across the front of the sun, has returned. It rotated around the sun's limb a couple days ago. It is still a large sunspot group. The solar flux is over 160 now and is expected to continue climbing for a few more days. Once again, if you want to get on the higher bands, 17 m and up, this weekend and early next week is the time. Have fun, Kerry From galeheise at windstream.net Wed Nov 19 08:38:11 2014 From: galeheise at windstream.net (galeheise at windstream.net) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:38:11 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] 48 Ft. Rohn 25G Tower Available Message-ID: <0E0519E3FDBF403C97A8F6C41754D19E@GalePC> To All- Through my search to purchase ham equipment I?ve located a 48? tower of Rohn 25G. I believe it may be taken down in exchange for ownership of the tower i.e free if you take it down. If interested, please contact me directly via email or 830-896-9593. Gale KM4DR From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Wed Nov 19 17:47:41 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:47:41 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Crimper For Power Poles Message-ID: <36820DEEC805478DA0D4030A59829C53@GaryPC> Just received in todays mail the replacement dies for one set of my Coax crimpers to allow for the crimping of 15,30, and 45 amp Power Poles. They are available to anyone who needs some crimping done as are the Coax crimpers which will crimp any size coax from RG-58 to LMR-400. Also, the Team of ?Johnson, Gordon, and Moore? have a full body harness (XL/XXL) and attachment points/fall arrestors for climbing safely. We will be soon putting together a couple of gin poles and a tower jack. They are also available for people to use ? SAFELY, unless someone knows of a legal reason they should not be loaned. We have no desire to run afoul of the law / liability requirements which in this world are all too prevalent. Gary J N5BAA From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Thu Nov 20 12:12:43 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:12:43 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Crimper For Power Poles Message-ID: <73501CCF76D647C790C769CFA9FD79FF@GaryPC> On advice of legal minds much better than my own, the Coax crimpers and power pole crimpers remain available for loan. The loan of the climbing harness, etc is under further evaluation due to liability concerns. Sorry!! It?s a sorry state of affairs when lawyers and the courts rule the world. Gary J N5BAA From: Gary J - N5BAA Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 4:47 PM To: hcarc at mailman.qth.net Subject: Crimper For Power Poles Just received in todays mail the replacement dies for one set of my Coax crimpers to allow for the crimping of 15,30, and 45 amp Power Poles. They are available to anyone who needs some crimping done as are the Coax crimpers which will crimp any size coax from RG-58 to LMR-400. Also, the Team of ?Johnson, Gordon, and Moore? have a full body harness (XL/XXL) and attachment points/fall arrestors for climbing safely. We will be soon putting together a couple of gin poles and a tower jack. They are also available for people to use ? SAFELY, unless someone knows of a legal reason they should not be loaned. We have no desire to run afoul of the law / liability requirements which in this world are all too prevalent. Gary J N5BAA From hcarc at mailman.qth.net Sun Nov 23 20:46:37 2014 From: hcarc at mailman.qth.net (Don Murray via HCARC) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 20:46:37 -0500 Subject: [HCARC] p.s. wanted Message-ID: <4c3ff.30049596.41a3e7fd@aol.com> Hello all... I am in need of a 24 VDC power supply, about 7 amps. Anyone have one available? TNX for looking!! 73 Don W4WJ From tower2 at stx.rr.com Mon Nov 24 19:55:26 2014 From: tower2 at stx.rr.com (Harvey N. Vordenbaum) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 18:55:26 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] test Message-ID: <000801d0084a$8084bfd0$818e3f70$@rr.com> Test From hcarc at mailman.qth.net Mon Nov 24 20:20:40 2014 From: hcarc at mailman.qth.net (Don Murray via HCARC) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 20:20:40 -0500 Subject: [HCARC] From Riley Hollingsworth, K4ZDH, ex FCC Amateur Dude Message-ID: <66236.158313a4.41a53368@aol.com> http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?458201-HamRadioNow-Riley-Returns-plus-m ore-Digital-from-the-DCC From cw4evr at hctc.net Tue Nov 25 11:58:10 2014 From: cw4evr at hctc.net (Fred Gilmore) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:58:10 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?458201-HamRadioNow-Riley-Returns-plus-more-Digital-from-the-DCC Message-ID: <873096652FCD498BB9C66225BCB05856@ham296dac95944> Thanks Don, this was great. Everyone needs to see it, especially minute 50 to the end. From billandmattie at windstream.net Tue Nov 25 13:11:48 2014 From: billandmattie at windstream.net (Bill Tynan) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 12:11:48 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET Message-ID: Hi HCARC: Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to install one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help from our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money for all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. Something to think about. I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we would want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. Just thought I would pass it along. 73, Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 _____ From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET Good morning ladies and gentleman... Unless you have been buried in a snow drift some place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about the new Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in both QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled with a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the products that support it. Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part of the original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early March of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s and System for some time before everything entered into the general public. We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a linked network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with a continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the region. We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up Fusion Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased Digital Activity. With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects intend on taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. With this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net that will be starting this evening. EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE FUSION NET We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be checking into this net in a totally new fashion. To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group mode. This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. This net will be focusing on the technology We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today for the net. again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and present The Fusion Net 443.025 Group Mode TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE YAESU FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY ARE, THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: 11/25/14 From galeheise at windstream.net Tue Nov 25 14:08:09 2014 From: galeheise at windstream.net (galeheise at windstream.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:08:09 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Free Stuff Message-ID: <7670CE4BB1894FBCAA71CF10B1C888CD@GalePC> To All- For anyone wanting to travel to Austin I?ve come across ?Free Stuff? from three different hams: Ham 1 2 meter Ringo Ranger ? Up 2 ? Rohn Push Poles (One in a garage, the other up) Homebrew 2 meter 5 element quad Homebrew 2 meter J-Pole made with copper 40 to 50 ft. of EMT poles up 5 ? Hustler high power resonators in a homebrew case and a base spring What appears to be either a CB or 10 meter ground plane vertical. Ham 2 40 ft. Rohn Tower 30 ft. Rohn Tower with rotator, controller, HF beam and 2 meter beam. What appears to be a home brew 4 element monoband beam The above is free but the owner wants the towers taken down and in addition to ownership one may be able to negotiate ownership of some ham equipment as well. Ham 3 30 to 40 tapered aluminum military support. Tapers from about 10 inches to 3 inches. If anyone is interested I have contact information and photographs. Just contact me direct via email or 830-896-9593. Gale KM4DR From hcarc at mailman.qth.net Tue Nov 25 15:55:01 2014 From: hcarc at mailman.qth.net (Don Murray via HCARC) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:55:01 -0500 Subject: [HCARC] For You history History Buffs: WWI in 18 hours!! Message-ID: <7a2de.5bb355b5.41a646a5@aol.com> Pretty impressive work!! 73 Don W4WJ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwn22WhrrUFMg65XgPicFBfYgHj7Xpcdn From kerryk5ks at hughes.net Tue Nov 25 16:01:21 2014 From: kerryk5ks at hughes.net (Kerry Sandstrom) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:01:21 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> Bill and HCARC, I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a digital 2 meter rig. That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven by the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two ways to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked system where several stations share a small number of channels or by using digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages are. On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I don't know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may not be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 MHz to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in that whole spectrum. As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. I'm sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is the way to go for hams. What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if we are interested. Kerry On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: > Hi HCARC: > > > > Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion > business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for > installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to install > one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help from > our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money for > all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. > > > > Something to think about. > > > > I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we would > want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. > > > > Just thought I would pass it along. > > > > 73, > > > > Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 > > > > _____ > > From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM > Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > > > Good morning ladies and gentleman... > > > > Unless you have been buried in a snow drift some > place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about the new > Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in both > QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled with > a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the > products that support it. > > > > Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part of the > original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our > 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early March > of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s and > System for some time before everything entered into the general public. > > > > We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have > purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a linked > network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with a > continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the region. > > > > We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual > Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of > operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. > > > > Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up Fusion > Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is > increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased Digital > Activity. > > > > With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects intend on > taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. With > this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net that > will be starting this evening. > > > > > > EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM > > ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} > > > > THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE > > > > FUSION NET > > > > We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be checking > into this net in a totally new fashion. > > > > To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group mode. > This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log > everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. > > > > This net will be focusing on the technology > > > > We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today for > the net. > > > > again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and > present > > > > The Fusion Net > > 443.025 Group Mode > > TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM > > > > NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO > > > > PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE YAESU > FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY ARE, > THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: 11/25/14 > > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > From galeheise at windstream.net Tue Nov 25 20:04:37 2014 From: galeheise at windstream.net (galeheise at windstream.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:04:37 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Ham #2 - GAP Antenna Message-ID: In addition, Ham #2 has what appears be a GAP type antenna with a large loading coil at the base and vertical linear loading. Gale KM4DR From kd5wdq at gmail.com Tue Nov 25 20:37:43 2014 From: kd5wdq at gmail.com (kd5wdq .) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:37:43 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> Message-ID: I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). --eddie af5sa On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom wrote: > Bill and HCARC, > > I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I > believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I > just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is > enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital > repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a > digital 2 meter rig. > > That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven by > the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two ways > to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked > system where several stations share a small number of channels or by using > digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. > Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages are. > > On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. > You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal > strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't > get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is > noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the > commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I don't > know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may not > be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. > > On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage > than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it > uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and > everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an > issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz > channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 MHz > to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in > that whole spectrum. > > As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the > two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm > convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. I'm > sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I > think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. > > In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is > the way to go for hams. > > What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if > we are interested. > > Kerry > > > > On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: > >> Hi HCARC: >> >> >> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >> install >> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help >> from >> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money >> for >> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >> >> >> Something to think about. >> >> >> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we would >> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >> >> >> Just thought I would pass it along. >> >> >> 73, >> >> >> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> >> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >> >> >> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift some >> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about the >> new >> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in >> both >> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >> with >> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >> products that support it. >> >> >> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part of >> the >> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our >> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early March >> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s and >> System for some time before everything entered into the general public. >> >> >> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >> linked >> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with a >> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >> region. >> >> >> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >> >> >> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up Fusion >> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased Digital >> Activity. >> >> >> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects intend >> on >> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. With >> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net that >> will be starting this evening. >> >> >> >> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >> >> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >> >> >> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >> >> >> FUSION NET >> >> >> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be checking >> into this net in a totally new fashion. >> >> >> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group mode. >> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >> >> >> This net will be focusing on the technology >> >> >> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today for >> the net. >> >> >> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >> present >> >> >> The Fusion Net >> >> 443.025 Group Mode >> >> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >> >> >> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >> >> >> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE YAESU >> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >> ARE, >> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: 11/25/14 >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > From hcarc at mailman.qth.net Tue Nov 25 21:09:49 2014 From: hcarc at mailman.qth.net (Don Murray via HCARC) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:09:49 -0500 Subject: [HCARC] Ham #2 - GAP Antenna Message-ID: <80f77.19bef036.41a6906d@aol.com> Gale... GAPs don't have coils... unless it is a user mod!! ;-) 73 Don W4WJ In a message dated 11/25/2014 7:04:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, galeheise at windstream.net writes: In addition, Ham #2 has what appears be a GAP type antenna with a large loading coil at the base and vertical linear loading. Gale KM4DR ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From galeheise at windstream.net Tue Nov 25 21:21:56 2014 From: galeheise at windstream.net (galeheise at windstream.net) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 20:21:56 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Vertical Not a GAP Message-ID: <39C9DC3C40234E269627A2DD06251B04@GalePC> The vertical is not a GAP antenna. From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Wed Nov 26 01:47:55 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:47:55 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> Message-ID: Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it pass simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the repeater currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and Icom is something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture of the shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve our already underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this another place to help fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? Gary J N5BAA "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM To: Kerry Sandstrom Cc: Reflector Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). --eddie af5sa On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom wrote: > Bill and HCARC, > > I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I > believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I > just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is > enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital > repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a > digital 2 meter rig. > > That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven by > the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two > ways > to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked > system where several stations share a small number of channels or by using > digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. > Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages > are. > > On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. > You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal > strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't > get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is > noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the > commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I don't > know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may not > be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. > > On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage > than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it > uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and > everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an > issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz > channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 MHz > to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in > that whole spectrum. > > As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the > two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm > convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. > I'm > sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I > think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. > > In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is > the way to go for hams. > > What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if > we are interested. > > Kerry > > > > On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: > >> Hi HCARC: >> >> >> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >> install >> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help >> from >> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money >> for >> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >> >> >> Something to think about. >> >> >> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we would >> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >> >> >> Just thought I would pass it along. >> >> >> 73, >> >> >> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >> >> >> _____ >> >> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> >> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >> >> >> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift some >> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about the >> new >> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in >> both >> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >> with >> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >> products that support it. >> >> >> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part of >> the >> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our >> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >> March >> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s and >> System for some time before everything entered into the general public. >> >> >> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >> linked >> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with a >> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >> region. >> >> >> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >> >> >> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >> Fusion >> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased >> Digital >> Activity. >> >> >> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects intend >> on >> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. With >> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net >> that >> will be starting this evening. >> >> >> >> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >> >> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >> >> >> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >> >> >> FUSION NET >> >> >> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >> checking >> into this net in a totally new fashion. >> >> >> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group mode. >> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >> >> >> This net will be focusing on the technology >> >> >> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today for >> the net. >> >> >> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >> present >> >> >> The Fusion Net >> >> 443.025 Group Mode >> >> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >> >> >> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >> >> >> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >> YAESU >> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >> ARE, >> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >> >> >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: 11/25/14 >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: 11/25/14 From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Wed Nov 26 10:36:35 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:36:35 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] OT - One Great Idea Message-ID: A great idea especially for those of use with arthritis in our hands and wrists. http://www.ebay.com/itm/281463457988?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Gary J N5BAA From kd5wdq at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 11:10:30 2014 From: kd5wdq at gmail.com (kd5wdq .) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:10:30 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> Message-ID: No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is data. Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion radios is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data stream.) How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data stream, just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long range links. Use your imagination. --eddie AF5SA On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA wrote: > Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it pass > simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the repeater > currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and Icom is > something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? > video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture of the > shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve our already > underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this another place to help > fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? > > Gary J > N5BAA > > "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" > > -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM > To: Kerry Sandstrom > Cc: Reflector > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > > I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. > > Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one > knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote > control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). > > Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, > yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually > happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest > thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). > > --eddie af5sa > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom > wrote: > > Bill and HCARC, >> >> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I >> believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I >> just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is >> enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital >> repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a >> digital 2 meter rig. >> >> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven by >> the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two >> ways >> to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked >> system where several stations share a small number of channels or by using >> digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. >> Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages >> are. >> >> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. >> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal >> strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't >> get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is >> noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the >> commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I don't >> know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may not >> be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. >> >> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage >> than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it >> uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and >> everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an >> issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz >> channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 MHz >> to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in >> that whole spectrum. >> >> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the >> two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm >> convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. I'm >> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I >> think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >> >> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is >> the way to go for hams. >> >> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if >> we are interested. >> >> Kerry >> >> >> >> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >> >> Hi HCARC: >>> >>> >>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >>> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >>> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >>> install >>> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help >>> from >>> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money >>> for >>> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >>> >>> >>> Something to think about. >>> >>> >>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we would >>> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >>> >>> >>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>> >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> >>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>> >>> >>> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift some >>> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about the >>> new >>> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in >>> both >>> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >>> with >>> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >>> products that support it. >>> >>> >>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part of >>> the >>> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our >>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >>> March >>> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s and >>> System for some time before everything entered into the general public. >>> >>> >>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >>> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >>> linked >>> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with a >>> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >>> region. >>> >>> >>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >>> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >>> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>> >>> >>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >>> Fusion >>> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >>> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased >>> Digital >>> Activity. >>> >>> >>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects intend >>> on >>> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. With >>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net >>> that >>> will be starting this evening. >>> >>> >>> >>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>> >>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>> >>> >>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>> >>> >>> FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>> checking >>> into this net in a totally new fashion. >>> >>> >>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group mode. >>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >>> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>> >>> >>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>> >>> >>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today for >>> the net. >>> >>> >>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >>> present >>> >>> >>> The Fusion Net >>> >>> 443.025 Group Mode >>> >>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>> >>> >>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>> >>> >>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >>> YAESU >>> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >>> ARE, >>> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: 11/25/14 >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: 11/25/14 > From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Wed Nov 26 11:39:20 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:39:20 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> Message-ID: <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> So I assume then the cost to the club to implement this system is the price of the new repeater radios and club members wouldn't have to buy new equipment to interface with it?? How close are we to needing to replace the current repeater?? I am too new to Ham Radio to have much imagination on this kind of technology. I am still enamored with talking on HF around the world. Someone should do a presentation for a club meeting on what Fusion adds to the system so a knowledgeable choice could be made. Would Fusion for instance increase our capability to support emergency comms in support of the Red Cross in our newly assigned 18 county area?? Gary J N5BAA -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:10 AM To: Reflector Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is data. Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion radios is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data stream.) How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data stream, just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long range links. Use your imagination. --eddie AF5SA On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA wrote: > Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it pass > simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the repeater > currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and Icom is > something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? > video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture of > the > shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve our already > underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this another place to help > fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? > > Gary J > N5BAA > > "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" > > -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM > To: Kerry Sandstrom > Cc: Reflector > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > > I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. > > Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one > knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote > control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). > > Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, > yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually > happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest > thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). > > --eddie af5sa > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom > wrote: > > Bill and HCARC, >> >> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I >> believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I >> just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is >> enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital >> repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a >> digital 2 meter rig. >> >> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven by >> the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two >> ways >> to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked >> system where several stations share a small number of channels or by >> using >> digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. >> Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages >> are. >> >> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. >> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal >> strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't >> get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is >> noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the >> commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I >> don't >> know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may >> not >> be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. >> >> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage >> than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it >> uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and >> everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an >> issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz >> channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 MHz >> to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in >> that whole spectrum. >> >> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the >> two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm >> convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. >> I'm >> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I >> think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >> >> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is >> the way to go for hams. >> >> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if >> we are interested. >> >> Kerry >> >> >> >> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >> >> Hi HCARC: >>> >>> >>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >>> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >>> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >>> install >>> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help >>> from >>> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money >>> for >>> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >>> >>> >>> Something to think about. >>> >>> >>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we would >>> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >>> >>> >>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>> >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> >>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>> >>> >>> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift >>> some >>> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about the >>> new >>> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in >>> both >>> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >>> with >>> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >>> products that support it. >>> >>> >>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part of >>> the >>> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our >>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >>> March >>> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s and >>> System for some time before everything entered into the general public. >>> >>> >>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >>> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >>> linked >>> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with >>> a >>> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >>> region. >>> >>> >>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >>> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >>> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>> >>> >>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >>> Fusion >>> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >>> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased >>> Digital >>> Activity. >>> >>> >>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects intend >>> on >>> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. >>> With >>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net >>> that >>> will be starting this evening. >>> >>> >>> >>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>> >>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>> >>> >>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>> >>> >>> FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>> checking >>> into this net in a totally new fashion. >>> >>> >>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group >>> mode. >>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >>> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>> >>> >>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>> >>> >>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today >>> for >>> the net. >>> >>> >>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >>> present >>> >>> >>> The Fusion Net >>> >>> 443.025 Group Mode >>> >>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>> >>> >>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>> >>> >>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >>> YAESU >>> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >>> ARE, >>> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: >>> 11/25/14 >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: 11/25/14 > ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8633 - Release Date: 11/26/14 From cw4evr at hctc.net Wed Nov 26 12:01:55 2014 From: cw4evr at hctc.net (Fred Gilmore) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:01:55 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> Message-ID: Does it make any noise? We tried to add packet to the repeater a few years ago and a few members said they would resign from the club if it continued. Personally I don't think its worth the effort or cost. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary J - N5BAA" To: "kd5wdq ." ; "Reflector" Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > So I assume then the cost to the club to implement this system is the > price of the new repeater radios and club members wouldn't have to buy new > equipment to interface with it?? How close are we to needing to replace > the current repeater?? > > I am too new to Ham Radio to have much imagination on this kind of > technology. I am still enamored with talking on HF around the world. > Someone should do a presentation for a club meeting on what Fusion adds to > the system so a knowledgeable choice could be made. Would Fusion for > instance increase our capability to support emergency comms in support of > the Red Cross in our newly assigned 18 county area?? > > Gary J > N5BAA > > -----Original Message----- > From: kd5wdq . > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:10 AM > To: Reflector > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what > D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes > place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. > > Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is data. > Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion radios > is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data stream.) > How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data stream, > just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long range links. > Use your imagination. > > --eddie AF5SA > > > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA > wrote: > >> Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it pass >> simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the repeater >> currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and Icom is >> something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? >> video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture of >> the >> shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve our >> already >> underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this another place to help >> fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? >> >> Gary J >> N5BAA >> >> "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" >> >> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM >> To: Kerry Sandstrom >> Cc: Reflector >> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> >> I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. >> >> Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one >> knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote >> control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). >> >> Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, >> yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually >> happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest >> thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). >> >> --eddie af5sa >> >> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom >> wrote: >> >> Bill and HCARC, >>> >>> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I >>> believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I >>> just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is >>> enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital >>> repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a >>> digital 2 meter rig. >>> >>> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven >>> by >>> the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two >>> ways >>> to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked >>> system where several stations share a small number of channels or by >>> using >>> digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. >>> Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages >>> are. >>> >>> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. >>> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal >>> strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't >>> get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is >>> noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the >>> commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I >>> don't >>> know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may >>> not >>> be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. >>> >>> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage >>> than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it >>> uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and >>> everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an >>> issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz >>> channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 >>> MHz >>> to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in >>> that whole spectrum. >>> >>> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the >>> two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm >>> convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. >>> I'm >>> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I >>> think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >>> >>> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is >>> the way to go for hams. >>> >>> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if >>> we are interested. >>> >>> Kerry >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >>> >>> Hi HCARC: >>>> >>>> >>>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >>>> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >>>> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >>>> install >>>> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help >>>> from >>>> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money >>>> for >>>> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >>>> >>>> >>>> Something to think about. >>>> >>>> >>>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we >>>> would >>>> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >>>> >>>> >>>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>>> >>>> >>>> 73, >>>> >>>> >>>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>>> >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>>> >>>> >>>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>>> >>>> >>>> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift >>>> some >>>> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about >>>> the >>>> new >>>> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in >>>> both >>>> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >>>> with >>>> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >>>> products that support it. >>>> >>>> >>>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part >>>> of >>>> the >>>> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our >>>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >>>> March >>>> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s >>>> and >>>> System for some time before everything entered into the general public. >>>> >>>> >>>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >>>> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >>>> linked >>>> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators with >>>> a >>>> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >>>> region. >>>> >>>> >>>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >>>> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >>>> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>>> >>>> >>>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >>>> Fusion >>>> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >>>> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased >>>> Digital >>>> Activity. >>>> >>>> >>>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects >>>> intend >>>> on >>>> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. >>>> With >>>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net >>>> that >>>> will be starting this evening. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>>> >>>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>>> >>>> >>>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>>> >>>> >>>> FUSION NET >>>> >>>> >>>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>>> checking >>>> into this net in a totally new fashion. >>>> >>>> >>>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group >>>> mode. >>>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >>>> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>>> >>>> >>>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>>> >>>> >>>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today >>>> for >>>> the net. >>>> >>>> >>>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >>>> present >>>> >>>> >>>> The Fusion Net >>>> >>>> 443.025 Group Mode >>>> >>>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>>> >>>> >>>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>>> >>>> >>>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >>>> YAESU >>>> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >>>> ARE, >>>> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>>> >>>> >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: >>>> 11/25/14 >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> HCARC mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: 11/25/14 >> > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8633 - Release Date: 11/26/14 > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From kd5wdq at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 12:12:22 2014 From: kd5wdq at gmail.com (kd5wdq .) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:12:22 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> Message-ID: Concur with getting club talk going - try to get Greg N5XO as he has most experience with Fusion in the area. If it happens, I'll show up for that meeting. As for data noise, the way it's mitigated in SA is to turn on receive squelch so the data packets no longer received and only voice gets thru. As a foot note, this might be a good way to get younger members involved, As it emulates more of the smart phone features. --eddie AF5SA On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Fred Gilmore wrote: > Does it make any noise? We tried to add packet to the repeater a few > years ago and a few members said they would resign from the club if it > continued. Personally I don't think its worth the effort or cost. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary J - N5BAA" < > qltfnish at omniglobal.net> > To: "kd5wdq ." ; "Reflector" > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:39 AM > > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > > So I assume then the cost to the club to implement this system is the >> price of the new repeater radios and club members wouldn't have to buy new >> equipment to interface with it?? How close are we to needing to replace >> the current repeater?? >> >> I am too new to Ham Radio to have much imagination on this kind of >> technology. I am still enamored with talking on HF around the world. >> Someone should do a presentation for a club meeting on what Fusion adds to >> the system so a knowledgeable choice could be made. Would Fusion for >> instance increase our capability to support emergency comms in support of >> the Red Cross in our newly assigned 18 county area?? >> >> Gary J >> N5BAA >> >> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:10 AM >> To: Reflector >> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what >> D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes >> place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. >> >> Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is data. >> Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion radios >> is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data stream.) >> How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data stream, >> just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long range links. >> Use your imagination. >> >> --eddie AF5SA >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA > > >> wrote: >> >> Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it pass >>> simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the repeater >>> currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and Icom is >>> something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? >>> video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture of >>> the >>> shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve our >>> already >>> underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this another place to help >>> fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? >>> >>> Gary J >>> N5BAA >>> >>> "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM >>> To: Kerry Sandstrom >>> Cc: Reflector >>> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. >>> >>> Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one >>> knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote >>> control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). >>> >>> Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, >>> yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually >>> happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest >>> thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). >>> >>> --eddie af5sa >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom >>> wrote: >>> >>> Bill and HCARC, >>> >>>> >>>> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I >>>> believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I >>>> just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is >>>> enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a digital >>>> repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a >>>> digital 2 meter rig. >>>> >>>> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven >>>> by >>>> the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two >>>> ways >>>> to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked >>>> system where several stations share a small number of channels or by >>>> using >>>> digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. >>>> Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages >>>> are. >>>> >>>> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. >>>> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal >>>> strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You don't >>>> get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is >>>> noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the >>>> commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I >>>> don't >>>> know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may >>>> not >>>> be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. >>>> >>>> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage >>>> than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth it >>>> uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and >>>> everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an >>>> issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz >>>> channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 >>>> MHz >>>> to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in >>>> that whole spectrum. >>>> >>>> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the >>>> two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm >>>> convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. >>>> I'm >>>> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I >>>> think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >>>> >>>> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is >>>> the way to go for hams. >>>> >>>> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked if >>>> we are interested. >>>> >>>> Kerry >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi HCARC: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >>>>> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >>>>> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >>>>> install >>>>> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some help >>>>> from >>>>> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some money >>>>> for >>>>> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Something to think about. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we >>>>> would >>>>> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 73, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _____ >>>>> >>>>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>>>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift >>>>> some >>>>> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about >>>>> the >>>>> new >>>>> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews in >>>>> both >>>>> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >>>>> with >>>>> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >>>>> products that support it. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part >>>>> of >>>>> the >>>>> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade our >>>>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >>>>> March >>>>> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s >>>>> and >>>>> System for some time before everything entered into the general public. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >>>>> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >>>>> linked >>>>> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators >>>>> with a >>>>> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >>>>> region. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >>>>> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >>>>> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >>>>> Fusion >>>>> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >>>>> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased >>>>> Digital >>>>> Activity. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects >>>>> intend >>>>> on >>>>> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. >>>>> With >>>>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net >>>>> that >>>>> will be starting this evening. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>>>> >>>>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> FUSION NET >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>>>> checking >>>>> into this net in a totally new fashion. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group >>>>> mode. >>>>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >>>>> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today >>>>> for >>>>> the net. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >>>>> present >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The Fusion Net >>>>> >>>>> 443.025 Group Mode >>>>> >>>>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >>>>> YAESU >>>>> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >>>>> ARE, >>>>> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: >>>>> 11/25/14 >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> HCARC mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> HCARC mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: 11/25/14 >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8633 - Release Date: 11/26/14 >> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > > From kd5wdq at gmail.com Wed Nov 26 12:23:41 2014 From: kd5wdq at gmail.com (kd5wdq .) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:23:41 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> Message-ID: Like to correct my second paragraph, the data packets are still received, just not heard by using receive squelch. --eddie AF5SA On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:12 AM, kd5wdq . wrote: > Concur with getting club talk going - try to get Greg N5XO as he has most > experience > with Fusion in the area. If it happens, I'll show up for that meeting. > > As for data noise, the way it's mitigated in SA is to turn on receive > squelch so the > data packets no longer received and only voice gets thru. > > As a foot note, this might be a good way to get younger members involved, > As it > emulates more of the smart phone features. > > --eddie AF5SA > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Fred Gilmore wrote: > >> Does it make any noise? We tried to add packet to the repeater a few >> years ago and a few members said they would resign from the club if it >> continued. Personally I don't think its worth the effort or cost. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary J - N5BAA" < >> qltfnish at omniglobal.net> >> To: "kd5wdq ." ; "Reflector" >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:39 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> >> So I assume then the cost to the club to implement this system is the >>> price of the new repeater radios and club members wouldn't have to buy new >>> equipment to interface with it?? How close are we to needing to replace >>> the current repeater?? >>> >>> I am too new to Ham Radio to have much imagination on this kind of >>> technology. I am still enamored with talking on HF around the world. >>> Someone should do a presentation for a club meeting on what Fusion adds to >>> the system so a knowledgeable choice could be made. Would Fusion for >>> instance increase our capability to support emergency comms in support of >>> the Red Cross in our newly assigned 18 county area?? >>> >>> Gary J >>> N5BAA >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:10 AM >>> To: Reflector >>> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>> >>> No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what >>> D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes >>> place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. >>> >>> Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is >>> data. >>> Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion >>> radios >>> is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data stream.) >>> How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data stream, >>> just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long range links. >>> Use your imagination. >>> >>> --eddie AF5SA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA < >>> qltfnish at omniglobal.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it pass >>>> simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the repeater >>>> currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and Icom is >>>> something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? >>>> video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture of >>>> the >>>> shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve our >>>> already >>>> underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this another place to >>>> help >>>> fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? >>>> >>>> Gary J >>>> N5BAA >>>> >>>> "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM >>>> To: Kerry Sandstrom >>>> Cc: Reflector >>>> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>>> >>>> >>>> I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. >>>> >>>> Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one >>>> knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote >>>> control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). >>>> >>>> Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, >>>> yet if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually >>>> happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest >>>> thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). >>>> >>>> --eddie af5sa >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bill and HCARC, >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I >>>>> believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, I >>>>> just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there is >>>>> enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a >>>>> digital >>>>> repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would purchase a >>>>> digital 2 meter rig. >>>>> >>>>> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been driven >>>>> by >>>>> the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand it, the two >>>>> ways >>>>> to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is either with a trunked >>>>> system where several stations share a small number of channels or by >>>>> using >>>>> digital techniques. I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. >>>>> Digital could but we need to look at what the advantages/disadvantages >>>>> are. >>>>> >>>>> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital >>>>> data. >>>>> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, signal >>>>> strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). You >>>>> don't >>>>> get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear the signal is >>>>> noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. Some of the >>>>> commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this info, but I >>>>> don't >>>>> know of any ham equipment that does. A second disadvantage is you may >>>>> not >>>>> be able to hear traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. >>>>> >>>>> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better coverage >>>>> than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what bandwidth >>>>> it >>>>> uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in our area and >>>>> everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an >>>>> issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz >>>>> channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 >>>>> MHz >>>>> to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active >>>>> in >>>>> that whole spectrum. >>>>> >>>>> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the >>>>> two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm >>>>> convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. >>>>> I'm >>>>> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. I >>>>> think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >>>>> >>>>> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM is >>>>> the way to go for hams. >>>>> >>>>> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked >>>>> if >>>>> we are interested. >>>>> >>>>> Kerry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi HCARC: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this Fusion >>>>>> business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters for >>>>>> installation around the area. I don't know if he would be willing to >>>>>> install >>>>>> one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if he would want some >>>>>> help >>>>>> from >>>>>> our club. I also don't know if the Club would want to put up some >>>>>> money >>>>>> for >>>>>> all or part of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Something to think about. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we >>>>>> would >>>>>> want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 73, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> >>>>>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>>>>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift >>>>>> some >>>>>> place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard about >>>>>> the >>>>>> new >>>>>> Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great articles and reviews >>>>>> in >>>>>> both >>>>>> QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 months and the Internet is filled >>>>>> with >>>>>> a wealth of information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the >>>>>> products that support it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as part >>>>>> of >>>>>> the >>>>>> original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able to upgrade >>>>>> our >>>>>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >>>>>> March >>>>>> of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion Radio' s >>>>>> and >>>>>> System for some time before everything entered into the general >>>>>> public. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >>>>>> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building a >>>>>> linked >>>>>> network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio Operators >>>>>> with a >>>>>> continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} through out the >>>>>> region. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >>>>>> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode of >>>>>> operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >>>>>> Fusion >>>>>> Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and energy is >>>>>> increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more increased >>>>>> Digital >>>>>> Activity. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects >>>>>> intend >>>>>> on >>>>>> taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new technology. >>>>>> With >>>>>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new net >>>>>> that >>>>>> will be starting this evening. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>>>>> >>>>>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> FUSION NET >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>>>>> checking >>>>>> into this net in a totally new fashion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group >>>>>> mode. >>>>>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >>>>>> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders today >>>>>> for >>>>>> the net. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead >>>>>> and >>>>>> present >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The Fusion Net >>>>>> >>>>>> 443.025 Group Mode >>>>>> >>>>>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >>>>>> YAESU >>>>>> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >>>>>> ARE, >>>>>> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: >>>>>> 11/25/14 >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> HCARC mailing list >>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>>>> >>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> HCARC mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> HCARC mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: >>>> 11/25/14 >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8633 - Release Date: 11/26/14 >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> >> > From w6fvo at rschutte.com Wed Nov 26 12:32:05 2014 From: w6fvo at rschutte.com (W6FVO) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:32:05 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> Message-ID: <001f01d0099e$e7564da0$b602e8e0$@rschutte.com> Basic info ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlHNcTGrkPI for those of us who needed a little more information .. Rob. Schutte W6FVO -----Original Message----- From: HCARC [mailto:hcarc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of kd5wdq . Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:24 To: Reflector Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET Like to correct my second paragraph, the data packets are still received, just not heard by using receive squelch. --eddie AF5SA On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:12 AM, kd5wdq . wrote: > Concur with getting club talk going - try to get Greg N5XO as he has > most experience with Fusion in the area. If it happens, I'll show up > for that meeting. > > As for data noise, the way it's mitigated in SA is to turn on receive > squelch so the data packets no longer received and only voice gets > thru. > > As a foot note, this might be a good way to get younger members > involved, As it emulates more of the smart phone features. > > --eddie AF5SA > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 11:01 AM, Fred Gilmore wrote: > >> Does it make any noise? We tried to add packet to the repeater a few >> years ago and a few members said they would resign from the club if >> it continued. Personally I don't think its worth the effort or cost. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary J - N5BAA" < >> qltfnish at omniglobal.net> >> To: "kd5wdq ." ; "Reflector" >> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:39 AM >> >> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> >> So I assume then the cost to the club to implement this system is >> the >>> price of the new repeater radios and club members wouldn't have to >>> buy new equipment to interface with it?? How close are we to >>> needing to replace the current repeater?? >>> >>> I am too new to Ham Radio to have much imagination on this kind of >>> technology. I am still enamored with talking on HF around the world. >>> Someone should do a presentation for a club meeting on what Fusion >>> adds to the system so a knowledgeable choice could be made. Would >>> Fusion for instance increase our capability to support emergency >>> comms in support of the Red Cross in our newly assigned 18 county area?? >>> >>> Gary J >>> N5BAA >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:10 AM >>> To: Reflector >>> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>> >>> No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what >>> D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes >>> place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. >>> >>> Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is >>> data. >>> Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion >>> radios is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data >>> stream.) How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data >>> stream, just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long >>> range links. >>> Use your imagination. >>> >>> --eddie AF5SA >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA < >>> qltfnish at omniglobal.net> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it >>> pass >>>> simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the >>>> repeater currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and >>>> Icom is something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? >>>> video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a >>>> picture of the shopping list he left on the table, what will it do >>>> to improve our already underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or >>>> is this another place to help fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? >>>> >>>> Gary J >>>> N5BAA >>>> >>>> "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM >>>> To: Kerry Sandstrom >>>> Cc: Reflector >>>> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>>> >>>> >>>> I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. >>>> >>>> Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one >>>> knows that it's the future applications that count. Like remote >>>> control of HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). >>>> >>>> Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, yet >>>> if you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually >>>> happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest >>>> thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). >>>> >>>> --eddie af5sa >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom >>>> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Bill and HCARC, >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that >>>>> I believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter >>>>> equipment, I just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I >>>>> don't think there is enough activity to support another repeater >>>>> in the area. With a digital repeater, I believe only a small >>>>> number of the locals would purchase a digital 2 meter rig. >>>>> >>>>> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been >>>>> driven by the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i >>>>> understand it, the two ways to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth >>>>> requirement is either with a trunked system where several stations >>>>> share a small number of channels or by using digital techniques. >>>>> I doubt that trunking has a role in ham radio. >>>>> Digital could but we need to look at what the >>>>> advantages/disadvantages are. >>>>> >>>>> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital >>>>> data. >>>>> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, >>>>> signal strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral >>>>> density). You don't get the clues you get in an analog system >>>>> where you hear the signal is noisy or you hear the heterodyne from >>>>> another station. Some of the commercial/military non-voice data >>>>> systems give you this info, but I don't know of any ham equipment >>>>> that does. A second disadvantage is you may not be able to hear >>>>> traffic on the channel that isn't addressed to you. >>>>> >>>>> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better >>>>> coverage than an analog system but it might. I also don't know >>>>> what bandwidth it uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. >>>>> Fortunately in our area and everywhere I've been recently >>>>> bandwidth on 2 meters seems to not be an issue. Several years ago >>>>> we changed from 30 kHz channels to 15 kHz channels. We also >>>>> expanded the FM portion of the band from 146 - 148 MHz to 144.5 >>>>> (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to hear 2 or 3 channels active in >>>>> that whole spectrum. >>>>> >>>>> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in >>>>> the two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. >>>>> I'm convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. >>>>> I'm >>>>> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business >>>>> entirely. I think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >>>>> >>>>> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital >>>>> FM is the way to go for hams. >>>>> >>>>> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get >>>>> asked if we are interested. >>>>> >>>>> Kerry >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi HCARC: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this >>>>>> Fusion business. He has been spending his own money to buy >>>>>> repeaters for installation around the area. I don't know if he >>>>>> would be willing to install one at our site here in Kerrville or >>>>>> not, or if he would want some help from our club. I also don't >>>>>> know if the Club would want to put up some money for all or part >>>>>> of the cost of a Fusion repeater. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Something to think about. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why >>>>>> we would want or need either. Again, that's something to think >>>>>> about. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 73, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> >>>>>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>>>>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Unless you have been buried in a snow >>>>>> drift some place for the past couple of years, you have most >>>>>> likely heard about the new Yaesu System Fusion. There have been >>>>>> some great articles and reviews in both QST and CQ Magazines over >>>>>> the past 6 months and the Internet is filled with a wealth of >>>>>> information and reviews of the new System Fusion and the products >>>>>> that support it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as >>>>>> part of the original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were >>>>>> able to upgrade our >>>>>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in >>>>>> early March of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the >>>>>> Fusion Radio' s and System for some time before everything >>>>>> entered into the general public. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we >>>>>> have purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of >>>>>> building a linked network of repeaters that will be offering >>>>>> Amateur Radio Operators with a continuous communication system >>>>>> {Analog or Digital} through out the region. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the >>>>>> Unusual Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting >>>>>> new mode of operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking >>>>>> up Fusion Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement >>>>>> and energy is increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and >>>>>> more increased Digital Activity. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects >>>>>> intend on taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this >>>>>> new technology. >>>>>> With >>>>>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new >>>>>> net that will be starting this evening. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>>>>> >>>>>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> FUSION NET >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>>>>> checking into this net in a totally new fashion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in >>>>>> Group mode. >>>>>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to >>>>>> log everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders >>>>>> today for the net. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion >>>>>> Lead and present >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The Fusion Net >>>>>> >>>>>> 443.025 Group Mode >>>>>> >>>>>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO >>>>>> HAVE YAESU FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB >>>>>> AFFILIATION THEY ARE, THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE >>>>>> WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: >>>>>> 11/25/14 >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> HCARC mailing list >>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>>>> >>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >>>>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>> HCARC mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >>>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> HCARC mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- >>>> No virus found in this message. >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: >>>> 11/25/14 >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8633 - Release Date: >>> 11/26/14 >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this >>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From tower2 at stx.rr.com Wed Nov 26 14:22:33 2014 From: tower2 at stx.rr.com (Harvey N. Vordenbaum) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:22:33 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> References: <5474EE21.6010905@hughes.net> <1E8912DFDB404B3EB9741FD939DBC542@GaryPC> Message-ID: <001201d009ae$54877f70$fd967e50$@rr.com> There are articles in the September and August CQ magazines giving a good review of the Fusion system. Check the system out here: http://www.systemfusioninfo.com/ and: http://www.yaesu.com/pdf/System_Fusion_text.pdf CQ is running several months behind on publication dates. The September issue just came a couple of weeks ago. Hv -----Original Message----- From: HCARC [mailto:hcarc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gary J - N5BAA Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:39 AM To: kd5wdq .; Reflector Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET So I assume then the cost to the club to implement this system is the price of the new repeater radios and club members wouldn't have to buy new equipment to interface with it?? How close are we to needing to replace the current repeater?? I am too new to Ham Radio to have much imagination on this kind of technology. I am still enamored with talking on HF around the world. Someone should do a presentation for a club meeting on what Fusion adds to the system so a knowledgeable choice could be made. Would Fusion for instance increase our capability to support emergency comms in support of the Red Cross in our newly assigned 18 county area?? Gary J N5BAA -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 10:10 AM To: Reflector Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET No Fusion radio is required - analog radios work fine. Fusion is what D-Star wants to be. Conversion from analog to digital and back takes place in the repeater, so analog works with digital radios. Again, it's about the future applications - as you well know data is data. Want to integrate APRS to fusion, NP! (believe the APRS in Fusion radios is already passed to other Fusion HW as part of the data stream.) How about HSMM (now BBHN) integrated into Fusion data stream, just an idea, but wow! 2.4ghz short range with Fusion long range links. Use your imagination. --eddie AF5SA On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 12:47 AM, Gary J - N5BAA wrote: > Does a Fusion equipped repeater require a Fusion radio, or will it > pass simple voice from a normal hand held 2 meter rig too as the > repeater currently does?? Yaesu and I think Kenwood are Fusion and > Icom is something else that's been around longer. Reminds me of Betamax vs ?? > video from years ago. Besides letting Marilyn send Harvey a picture > of the shopping list he left on the table, what will it do to improve > our already underused 2 meter system in place now?? Or is this > another place to help fund radio mfgrs bottom line?? > > Gary J > N5BAA > > "Amateur radio--a real time social network using radio waves" > > -----Original Message----- From: kd5wdq . > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 7:37 PM > To: Kerry Sandstrom > Cc: Reflector > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > > I disagree, the point of Fusion is voice AND data. > > Right now, pictures and user info is being transferred, but one knows > that it's the future applications that count. Like remote control of > HF via Fusion or the (fill in the blank). > > Sure, there's a weakness of people on the repeater everywhere, yet if > you provide more features, it will be used. That is actually > happening in San Antonio now. Linking is probably the nicest > thing about Fusion (and sharing data with the links). > > --eddie af5sa > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Kerry Sandstrom > > wrote: > > Bill and HCARC, >> >> I'm moderately active on our club repeater. Despite the fact that I >> believe we have several club members who have only 2 meter equipment, >> I just don't hear many stations on the repeater. I don't think there >> is enough activity to support another repeater in the area. With a >> digital repeater, I believe only a small number of the locals would >> purchase a digital 2 meter rig. >> >> That said, I think the history of digital voice on VHF has been >> driven by the manufacturers and 2-way radio people. As i understand >> it, the two ways to meet the FCC 6.25 kHz bandwidth requirement is >> either with a trunked system where several stations share a small >> number of channels or by using digital techniques. I doubt that >> trunking has a role in ham radio. >> Digital could but we need to look at what the >> advantages/disadvantages are. >> >> On the disadvantage size, interference is not obvious with digital data. >> You really need 3 pieces of information, signal to noise ratio, >> signal strength and Eb/N0 (energy per bit / noise spectral density). >> You don't get the clues you get in an analog system where you hear >> the signal is noisy or you hear the heterodyne from another station. >> Some of the commercial/military non-voice data systems give you this >> info, but I don't know of any ham equipment that does. A second >> disadvantage is you may not be able to hear traffic on the channel >> that isn't addressed to you. >> >> On the advantage size, I don't know if it provides any better >> coverage than an analog system but it might. I also don't know what >> bandwidth it uses, but 6.25 kHz is probably a goal. Fortunately in >> our area and everywhere I've been recently bandwidth on 2 meters >> seems to not be an issue. Several years ago we changed from 30 kHz >> channels to 15 kHz channels. We also expanded the FM portion of the >> band from 146 - 148 MHz to 144.5 (?) - 148 MHz. Now I'm lucky to >> hear 2 or 3 channels active in that whole spectrum. >> >> As everyone may or may not know, The big 3 from Japan are big in the >> two-way radio biz. The only market for analog FM may be hams. I'm >> convinced that most of their production is now digital VHF/UHF radios. >> I'm >> sure they would like to get rid of the analog FM business entirely. >> I think that is what d-star and Fusion is all about. >> >> In any event, I haven't seen anything to convince me that digital FM >> is the way to go for hams. >> >> What do the rest of you think? From what Bill says, we may get asked >> if we are interested. >> >> Kerry >> >> >> >> On 11/25/2014 12:11 PM, Bill Tynan wrote: >> >> Hi HCARC: >>> >>> >>> Greg, N5XO is, as you can see, is very enthusiastic about this >>> Fusion business. He has been spending his own money to buy repeaters >>> for installation around the area. I don't know if he would be >>> willing to install one at our site here in Kerrville or not, or if >>> he would want some help from our club. I also don't know if the Club >>> would want to put up some money for all or part of the cost of a >>> Fusion repeater. >>> >>> >>> Something to think about. >>> >>> >>> I really don't know the advantages of Fusion over D-Star or why we >>> would want or need either. Again, that's something to think about. >>> >>> >>> Just thought I would pass it along. >>> >>> >>> 73, >>> >>> >>> Bill Tynan, W3XO/5 >>> >>> >>> _____ >>> >>> From: N5XO [mailto:n5xo at 144200.net] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 6:37 AM >>> Subject: SYSTEM FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> Good morning ladies and gentleman... >>> >>> >>> Unless you have been buried in a snow drift >>> some place for the past couple of years, you have most likely heard >>> about the new Yaesu System Fusion. There have been some great >>> articles and reviews in both QST and CQ Magazines over the past 6 >>> months and the Internet is filled with a wealth of information and >>> reviews of the new System Fusion and the products that support it. >>> >>> >>> Myself and the Unusual Suspects were blessed to been selected as >>> part of the original Yaesu Fusion BETA Team and as such we were able >>> to upgrade our >>> 443.025 Repeater to a new Yaesu System Fusion Repeater back in early >>> March of 2014 and have been working {and playing} with the Fusion >>> Radio' s and System for some time before everything entered into the >>> general public. >>> >>> >>> We have bought into the System Fusion Project so deeply that we have >>> purchased 3 additional repeaters and are in the process of building >>> a linked network of repeaters that will be offering Amateur Radio >>> Operators with a continuous communication system {Analog or Digital} >>> through out the region. >>> >>> >>> We are hoping that our enthusiasm is infectious and that the Unusual >>> Suspects can play a major roll in promoting this exciting new mode >>> of operating for not only our local region but Central Texas. >>> >>> >>> Over the past month I have seen signs that many Hams are picking up >>> Fusion Radio's in one form or another, and that the excitement and >>> energy is increasing, or repeater activity is seeing more and more >>> increased Digital Activity. >>> >>> >>> With our strong lead in this new technology, the Unusual Suspects >>> intend on taking the lead in promoting and putting to use this new >>> technology. >>> With >>> this in mind we are very excited to inform everyone of an all new >>> net that will be starting this evening. >>> >>> >>> >>> EVERY TUESDAY EVENING AT 7:PM >>> >>> ON 443.025 {GROUP MODE} >>> >>> >>> THE UNUSUAL SUSPECTS PRESENT THE >>> >>> >>> FUSION NET >>> >>> >>> We intend on making the most of this technology and so we will be >>> checking into this net in a totally new fashion. >>> >>> >>> To join the Fusion Net this evening, please put your radio in Group >>> mode. >>> This will display your call sign for the Net Control Operator to log >>> everyone in and allow everyone to see who is on the net. >>> >>> >>> This net will be focusing on the technology >>> >>> >>> We will be sending out over the repeater several TEXT reminders >>> today for the net. >>> >>> >>> again the Unusual Suspects are proud to take the System Fusion Lead and >>> present >>> >>> >>> The Fusion Net >>> >>> 443.025 Group Mode >>> >>> TUESDAY EVENINGS @ 7:PM >>> >>> >>> NET CONTROL: Tim N9RO >>> >>> >>> PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD ABOUT THE NET TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS WHO HAVE >>> YAESU >>> FUSION RADIOS TO JOIN US TONIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT CLUB AFFILIATION THEY >>> ARE, >>> THE UNCLUB IS FOR EVERYONE WITH EVERYONE WELCOME TO JOIN IN. >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8629 - Release Date: >>> 11/25/14 >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> HCARC mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8631 - Release Date: 11/25/14 > ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8633 - Release Date: 11/26/14 ______________________________________________________________ HCARC mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html From qltfnish at omniglobal.net Thu Nov 27 00:27:46 2014 From: qltfnish at omniglobal.net (Gary J - N5BAA) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:27:46 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Fw: FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Gary J - N5BAA Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:26 PM To: Kerry Sandstrom Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET Do you mean Kerry that "IF THEY BUILD IT - THEY (WE) DON'T HAVE TO COME"?? Heck, Bill Tynan recently put up a 900 mhz repeater at his cost and I'd bet there are very few that have started using that one. I might, but every Alinco 900 mhz handheld I find costs me well over $200 (closer to 300) dollars. I then can make a choice to spend the $$$ on coax or antennas for HF and sorry Bill - 900 mhz loses out. I have asked on here if there is a less cost 900 mhz radio out there, but to date haven't heard one suggestion. The last thing I need to do would be buy a Fusion radio to have it sit idle too. BTW, for the new guys - VERTEX Standard makes Yaesu. Gary J N5BAA -----Original Message----- From: Kerry Sandstrom Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:11 PM To: Gary J - N5BAA Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET Gary et al, I think Gary has made a good comparison. This is kind of like the Beta vs. VHS VCR battles. Many would suggest that that battle was one not by the best technical system but the one that was least expensive. There are still people who are trying to keep Beta alive. Unfortunately both seem to have lost out to DVD and then Blu-ray. There are some differences however. We don't have 2 competing systems - we have at least 5. The three additional ones are TETRA, the European LMR digital system, P25 the US LMR digital system and DMR, another European LMR system. Because of FCC rules on bandwidth in the LMR bands, I expect every public safety 2-way radio in North America will be a P25 digital radio. Same thing is happening in Europe except it will be TETRA. Why do hams want to create a different incompatible system. All the systems claim compatibility with analog FM but none claim any compatibility with other digital systems. As a minimum, we need to wait to see which system is the winner. Cost will eventually be determined by economy of scale. Companies selling P25 radios include Motorola, Codan, Harris, Midland and the commercial parts of ICOM, Kenwood and Vertex Standard. I don't have any idea of how the FCC will eventually react to these systems in the ham bands. Already, I believe the 2 meter band can't be used for remote control. I'm not sure what the restrictions are or may be applied to 9600 baud data. Some of the digital systems require linear amplifiers. I don't know if all do. TETRA is one that I believe does require linear amps. Yes, digital signals do and will cause interference. Turning the squelch up merely ensures that you won't hear weak FM analog signals that are receiving digital interference. That means some of the weaker analog FM signals will not be workable. Typical narrowband digital signals require a higher S/N than analog FM, that's why the coverage of the digital signals is not as good as the analog signals. Error correction, FEC, and coding help with pulse type interference but do little for continuous interference. Unfortunately the response of most digital systems to interference is to retransmit the messages that can't be decoded probably. This doesn't exactly help the interference situation. I'm not sure what compatibility really means in the case of repeaters. What I think it means is that a digital signal will be repeated as a digital signal and an analog signal will be repeated as an analog signal. I don't think a digital user will be able to talk to an analog user. I may be wrong, but that is how I interpreted compatibility. So where does that leave us? Digital and analog on the same repeater simultaneously is not realistic. When both are present at the same level, I think digital will suffer more than analog. Digital coverage at the same power levels will be less than analog. I would wait until there is a real standard with real support. Right now, I don't think either Dstar or Fusion will be that standard. Finally, yes there are a lot of fun things you can do with data, but I don't know how many of them are legal, especially in the 2 meter band. No, I'm not a fan of digital systems on the ham bands. Kerry ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8635 - Release Date: 11/26/14 From kerryk5ks at hughes.net Thu Nov 27 21:27:51 2014 From: kerryk5ks at hughes.net (Kerry Sandstrom) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:27:51 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Fw: FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5477DDA7.9070500@hughes.net> That's exactly right, Gary. Let me take you all back about 35 years. Has anyone ever heard of Narrow Band Voice Modulation (NVBM)? Let me quote from "It Seems to US..." in the Sept 1978 QST. This is an editorial by Dick Baldwin, W1RU, General Manager of the ARRL . In those days the General manager was the same as today's Executive Vice President or Chief Executive Officer or whatever K1ZZ's latest title is. The editorial is titled "Dawn of an Era" It starts with "Last December we were privileged to share with League members the first published information on a technological breakthrough which promises to revolutionize voice communications: narrow band voice modulation (nbvm). Nvbm is a technique for compressing speech frequencies so that only about half the normal bandwidth is used." It says later in the editorial, "Nbvm has important applications to other services as well. An FCC study group has conducted tests of the system for Land Mobile applications and has tentatively concluded that a considerable saving of spectrum could be accomplished by replacing the present fm mobile equipment with single-sideband gear using nbvm." The editorial concludes with "We're proud that through QST, League members will be able to be at the forefront of this important development." Not only didn't it become a popular amateur mode, it hasn't even been utilized by the LMR community. I don't believe there were very many if any NBVM radios manufactured by anyone for any use. It just wasn't worth the trouble and just didn't work that well. I believe the commercial versions of digital radio such as P25, TETRA and perhaps DMR will be used in the LMR bands. One of the drivers in the Public Safety bands is the need for secure (encrypted) voice. This pretty much requires digital techniques. But encryption is not legal in the amateur bands so this isn't a player for us. I don't know how useful or practical digital voice will be for hams and I sure would take a wait and see attitude until it proves itself to be practical, inexpensive and popular. My last e-mail, I talked about the need for linear amplifiers. The digital modulation schemes do use multiple carriers. System Fusion claims to use C4FM which has 4 carriers. Typically to linearize an FM amplifier, you have to reduce the gain by 6 - 10 dB. Now your 10 W FM transmitter is a 1 - 2.5 W transmitter for C4FM. That is quite a hit. Kerry On 11/26/2014 11:27 PM, Gary J - N5BAA wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- From: Gary J - N5BAA > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:26 PM > To: Kerry Sandstrom > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > Do you mean Kerry that "IF THEY BUILD IT - THEY (WE) DON'T HAVE TO > COME"?? > Heck, Bill Tynan recently put up a 900 mhz repeater at his cost and > I'd bet > there are very few that have started using that one. I might, but every > Alinco 900 mhz handheld I find costs me well over $200 (closer to 300) > dollars. I then can make a choice to spend the $$$ on coax or > antennas for > HF and sorry Bill - 900 mhz loses out. I have asked on here if there > is a > less cost 900 mhz radio out there, but to date haven't heard one > suggestion. > The last thing I need to do would be buy a Fusion radio to have it sit > idle > too. > > BTW, for the new guys - VERTEX Standard makes Yaesu. > > Gary J > N5BAA > > -----Original Message----- From: Kerry Sandstrom > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:11 PM > To: Gary J - N5BAA > Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET > > Gary et al, > > I think Gary has made a good comparison. This is kind of like the Beta > vs. VHS VCR battles. Many would suggest that that battle was one not by > the best technical system but the one that was least expensive. There > are still people who are trying to keep Beta alive. Unfortunately both > seem to have lost out to DVD and then Blu-ray. There are some > differences however. We don't have 2 competing systems - we have at > least 5. The three additional ones are TETRA, the European LMR digital > system, P25 the US LMR digital system and DMR, another European LMR > system. Because of FCC rules on bandwidth in the LMR bands, I expect > every public safety 2-way radio in North America will be a P25 digital > radio. Same thing is happening in Europe except it will be TETRA. Why > do hams want to create a different incompatible system. > > All the systems claim compatibility with analog FM but none claim any > compatibility with other digital systems. As a minimum, we need to wait > to see which system is the winner. Cost will eventually be determined > by economy of scale. Companies selling P25 radios include Motorola, > Codan, Harris, Midland and the commercial parts of ICOM, Kenwood and > Vertex Standard. > > I don't have any idea of how the FCC will eventually react to these > systems in the ham bands. Already, I believe the 2 meter band can't be > used for remote control. I'm not sure what the restrictions are or may > be applied to 9600 baud data. > > Some of the digital systems require linear amplifiers. I don't know if > all do. TETRA is one that I believe does require linear amps. Yes, > digital signals do and will cause interference. Turning the squelch up > merely ensures that you won't hear weak FM analog signals that are > receiving digital interference. That means some of the weaker analog FM > signals will not be workable. Typical narrowband digital signals > require a higher S/N than analog FM, that's why the coverage of the > digital signals is not as good as the analog signals. Error correction, > FEC, and coding help with pulse type interference but do little for > continuous interference. Unfortunately the response of most digital > systems to interference is to retransmit the messages that can't be > decoded probably. This doesn't exactly help the interference situation. > > I'm not sure what compatibility really means in the case of repeaters. > What I think it means is that a digital signal will be repeated as a > digital signal and an analog signal will be repeated as an analog > signal. I don't think a digital user will be able to talk to an analog > user. I may be wrong, but that is how I interpreted compatibility. > > So where does that leave us? Digital and analog on the same repeater > simultaneously is not realistic. When both are present at the same > level, I think digital will suffer more than analog. Digital coverage at > the same power levels will be less than analog. I would wait until there > is a real standard with real support. Right now, I don't think either > Dstar or Fusion will be that standard. Finally, yes there are a lot of > fun things you can do with data, but I don't know how many of them are > legal, especially in the 2 meter band. > > No, I'm not a fan of digital systems on the ham bands. > > Kerry > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8635 - Release Date: 11/26/14 > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > From kerryk5ks at hughes.net Thu Nov 27 21:38:53 2014 From: kerryk5ks at hughes.net (Kerry Sandstrom) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:38:53 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] HF conditions Message-ID: <5477E03D.7070304@hughes.net> Hey gang, two more good size sunspot groups came over the sun's limb today. We now have 6 decent size groups on the the sun, 3 in the northern hemisphere and 3 in the southern hemisphere. These will probably be present for the next 6 - 7 days and then the first 2 will go to the sun's backside. We should expect good HF conditions for the next week plus. Sunspot numbers will be above 100 and the solar flux will be 170 or more. No big flares are expected so once again if you want to be on the higher HF bands, now is a great time. Kerry From kd5wdq at gmail.com Thu Nov 27 21:45:32 2014 From: kd5wdq at gmail.com (kd5wdq .) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:45:32 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Fw: FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET In-Reply-To: <5477DDA7.9070500@hughes.net> References: <5477DDA7.9070500@hughes.net> Message-ID: OK guys and gals, your killing the idea with speculation. Me, it's HARD DATA that counts. If your unsure, follow the San Antonio Fusion project, wait 6 months and see what the problems are, THEN make a decision. Don't kill the idea on "I think" it's this way or "This will happen". Keep an open mind. --eddie AF5SA On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:27 PM, Kerry Sandstrom wrote: > That's exactly right, Gary. > > Let me take you all back about 35 years. Has anyone ever heard of Narrow > Band Voice Modulation (NVBM)? Let me quote from "It Seems to US..." in the > Sept 1978 QST. This is an editorial by Dick Baldwin, W1RU, General Manager > of the ARRL . In those days the General manager was the same as today's > Executive Vice President or Chief Executive Officer or whatever K1ZZ's > latest title is. The editorial is titled "Dawn of an Era" It starts with > "Last December we were privileged to share with League members the first > published information on a technological breakthrough which promises to > revolutionize voice communications: narrow band voice modulation (nbvm). > Nvbm is a technique for compressing speech frequencies so that only about > half the normal bandwidth is used." It says later in the editorial, "Nbvm > has important applications to other services as well. An FCC study group > has conducted tests of the system for Land Mobile applications and has > tentatively concluded that a considerable saving of spectrum could be > accomplished by replacing the present fm mobile equipment with > single-sideband gear using nbvm." The editorial concludes with "We're > proud that through QST, League members will be able to be at the forefront > of this important development." > > Not only didn't it become a popular amateur mode, it hasn't even been > utilized by the LMR community. I don't believe there were very many if any > NBVM radios manufactured by anyone for any use. It just wasn't worth the > trouble and just didn't work that well. I believe the commercial versions > of digital radio such as P25, TETRA and perhaps DMR will be used in the LMR > bands. One of the drivers in the Public Safety bands is the need for > secure (encrypted) voice. This pretty much requires digital techniques. > But encryption is not legal in the amateur bands so this isn't a player for > us. I don't know how useful or practical digital voice will be for hams > and I sure would take a wait and see attitude until it proves itself to be > practical, inexpensive and popular. > > My last e-mail, I talked about the need for linear amplifiers. The > digital modulation schemes do use multiple carriers. System Fusion claims > to use C4FM which has 4 carriers. Typically to linearize an FM amplifier, > you have to reduce the gain by 6 - 10 dB. Now your 10 W FM transmitter is > a 1 - 2.5 W transmitter for C4FM. That is quite a hit. > > Kerry > > > > On 11/26/2014 11:27 PM, Gary J - N5BAA wrote: > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Gary J - N5BAA >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 11:26 PM >> To: Kerry Sandstrom >> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> Do you mean Kerry that "IF THEY BUILD IT - THEY (WE) DON'T HAVE TO COME"?? >> Heck, Bill Tynan recently put up a 900 mhz repeater at his cost and I'd >> bet >> there are very few that have started using that one. I might, but every >> Alinco 900 mhz handheld I find costs me well over $200 (closer to 300) >> dollars. I then can make a choice to spend the $$$ on coax or antennas >> for >> HF and sorry Bill - 900 mhz loses out. I have asked on here if there is a >> less cost 900 mhz radio out there, but to date haven't heard one >> suggestion. >> The last thing I need to do would be buy a Fusion radio to have it sit >> idle >> too. >> >> BTW, for the new guys - VERTEX Standard makes Yaesu. >> >> Gary J >> N5BAA >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Kerry Sandstrom >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 9:11 PM >> To: Gary J - N5BAA >> Subject: Re: [HCARC] FW: SYSTEM FUSION NET >> >> Gary et al, >> >> I think Gary has made a good comparison. This is kind of like the Beta >> vs. VHS VCR battles. Many would suggest that that battle was one not by >> the best technical system but the one that was least expensive. There >> are still people who are trying to keep Beta alive. Unfortunately both >> seem to have lost out to DVD and then Blu-ray. There are some >> differences however. We don't have 2 competing systems - we have at >> least 5. The three additional ones are TETRA, the European LMR digital >> system, P25 the US LMR digital system and DMR, another European LMR >> system. Because of FCC rules on bandwidth in the LMR bands, I expect >> every public safety 2-way radio in North America will be a P25 digital >> radio. Same thing is happening in Europe except it will be TETRA. Why >> do hams want to create a different incompatible system. >> >> All the systems claim compatibility with analog FM but none claim any >> compatibility with other digital systems. As a minimum, we need to wait >> to see which system is the winner. Cost will eventually be determined >> by economy of scale. Companies selling P25 radios include Motorola, >> Codan, Harris, Midland and the commercial parts of ICOM, Kenwood and >> Vertex Standard. >> >> I don't have any idea of how the FCC will eventually react to these >> systems in the ham bands. Already, I believe the 2 meter band can't be >> used for remote control. I'm not sure what the restrictions are or may >> be applied to 9600 baud data. >> >> Some of the digital systems require linear amplifiers. I don't know if >> all do. TETRA is one that I believe does require linear amps. Yes, >> digital signals do and will cause interference. Turning the squelch up >> merely ensures that you won't hear weak FM analog signals that are >> receiving digital interference. That means some of the weaker analog FM >> signals will not be workable. Typical narrowband digital signals >> require a higher S/N than analog FM, that's why the coverage of the >> digital signals is not as good as the analog signals. Error correction, >> FEC, and coding help with pulse type interference but do little for >> continuous interference. Unfortunately the response of most digital >> systems to interference is to retransmit the messages that can't be >> decoded probably. This doesn't exactly help the interference situation. >> >> I'm not sure what compatibility really means in the case of repeaters. >> What I think it means is that a digital signal will be repeated as a >> digital signal and an analog signal will be repeated as an analog >> signal. I don't think a digital user will be able to talk to an analog >> user. I may be wrong, but that is how I interpreted compatibility. >> >> So where does that leave us? Digital and analog on the same repeater >> simultaneously is not realistic. When both are present at the same >> level, I think digital will suffer more than analog. Digital coverage at >> the same power levels will be less than analog. I would wait until there >> is a real standard with real support. Right now, I don't think either >> Dstar or Fusion will be that standard. Finally, yes there are a lot of >> fun things you can do with data, but I don't know how many of them are >> legal, especially in the 2 meter band. >> >> No, I'm not a fan of digital systems on the ham bands. >> >> Kerry >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4223/8635 - Release Date: 11/26/14 >> ______________________________________________________________ >> HCARC mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> >> > ______________________________________________________________ > HCARC mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > From ccrobins at ktc.com Fri Nov 28 12:44:12 2014 From: ccrobins at ktc.com (Charley & Peggy Robinson) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:44:12 -0600 Subject: [HCARC] Fusion Repeater In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5478B46C.7060803@ktc.com> Let's see, the repeater is about $1700 bucks, although Yaesu has a special offer to clubs where we might be able to get the repeater for $500. There are terms & conditions of course. I suspect the SARC guys got their repeater through this program. At $500 I guess we, as a club, could afford it. But do we want to? Considering how much use our repeater gets, I have a hard time justifying the outlay; not to mention $300 for the compatible handheld. I guess we ought to see how Fusion goes over for the SARC. I'll have to put my J pole on the roof so I can pick up the SARC repeater. Shux, give it a year or two and Koreans may have a cheaper copy out! ;-) Charley, af5ao