From ianmwilson73 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  7 13:01:31 2011
From: ianmwilson73 at gmail.com (Ian Wilson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 10:01:31 -0700
Subject: [HBR] Available: 1650kHz LSB filter
Message-ID: <CAEz8jcR0KLB_NXX89aB2OecWhRRgP0+vsUTB3+HWE7GOc9WpLA@mail.gmail.com>

I have a Stoner filter, engineering prototype maybe. I measure about 3kHz BW
with 2.2k terminations.
About right for a 'SuperX' type receiver. Metal can, pair of screws/pins
underneath. About 2.25" x 1.25" x 1".

$5 plus shipping. Reply off-list please.

73, ian K3IMW

From radioconnection at gmail.com  Thu Jul  7 15:49:41 2011
From: radioconnection at gmail.com (Peter Bertini)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 15:49:41 -0400
Subject: [HBR] Available: 1650kHz LSB filter
In-Reply-To: <CAEz8jcR0KLB_NXX89aB2OecWhRRgP0+vsUTB3+HWE7GOc9WpLA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEz8jcR0KLB_NXX89aB2OecWhRRgP0+vsUTB3+HWE7GOc9WpLA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+uDY2RoZDSPsfLGYVVh9b=60ZA7AkLTSFBvR7+3u+Wp7vLA2Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'd love to have it!  Email sent.

Peter

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:01 PM, Ian Wilson <ianmwilson73 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a Stoner filter, engineering prototype maybe. I measure about 3kHz
> BW
> with 2.2k terminations.
> About right for a 'SuperX' type receiver. Metal can, pair of screws/pins
> underneath. About 2.25" x 1.25" x 1".
>
> $5 plus shipping. Reply off-list please.
>
> 73, ian K3IMW
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

From ianmwilson73 at gmail.com  Thu Jul  7 16:01:17 2011
From: ianmwilson73 at gmail.com (Ian Wilson)
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 13:01:17 -0700
Subject: [HBR] Available: 1650kHz LSB filter
In-Reply-To: <CA+uDY2RoZDSPsfLGYVVh9b=60ZA7AkLTSFBvR7+3u+Wp7vLA2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEz8jcR0KLB_NXX89aB2OecWhRRgP0+vsUTB3+HWE7GOc9WpLA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+uDY2RoZDSPsfLGYVVh9b=60ZA7AkLTSFBvR7+3u+Wp7vLA2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEz8jcRAE4aEttd+sOJ2q5KeaD2OxKBB0ftDAhpFhX6tKPBLRw@mail.gmail.com>

The filter is spoken for. Sorry I don't have more.

73, ian K3IMW

From waltah at earthlink.net  Thu Jul 28 13:29:50 2011
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:29:50 -0400
Subject: [HBR] The long, SLOW HBR project
Message-ID: <CA57129B.4EE3%waltah@earthlink.net>

A few years ago I set out to build a receiver loosely along W6TC lines but
with some changes and updates.   I reported on early progress a number of
times but as other things overwhelmed my hobby time, the project slowed to a
crawl.  I remember estimating that finishing up the next couple of circuits
might take another year or two.

I'm happy to report that things have temporarily swung the other way and
with perhaps twenty hours of time over a few weeks the project has moved
forward considerably.

This is a 'transformerless' receiver -- series string filaments, high
voltage by rectifying the AC line.  Single conversion with a 1700 kcs IF.  A
half lattice crystal filter provides selectivity.   No solid state devices
are used.  Plug-in coils.  The tube line up is:

19JN8 (pentode-triode) RF/3500 kcs band edge marker
12BZ6 Local oscillator
19J6 Mixer 
19JN8 1st IF/negative HV rectifier
19JN8 2nd IF/AGC plate detector
12AX7 Audio detector
19JN8 1st Audio amp/BFO
117N7 2nd Audio amp/positive HV rectifier

Basically everything now works.  The most interesting of the recent round of
problems/fixes was roughness on strong SSB signals caused by locking/pulling
(to the IF signal) of the BFO.  This was solved by adding a 'gimmick' of
about 1 mmf to cancel out the leakage of the signal into the BFO circuit --
think in terms of a neutralizing cap.

Another interesting one was hum modulation of strong carriers, audible with
the audio gain turned fully up and causing a slight warble on beat notes.
This was solved by AGC circuit, IF transformer, and IF bypassing changes.

Remaining problems/needed features:

1. Intermittent complete failure with a loud rushing noise replacing normal
signals.  This is most likely a front end VHF oscillation since tuning
receiver causes loud crackling/popping noises indicating high current
flowing in the tuning cap: The 19J6 mixer is a good bet since this tube is
good to 600 mcs as an oscillator and the problem isn't changed by disabling
the RF stage by flipping on the band edge marker.

2. Slight buzz audible with no signal and the audio gain fully up.  It's 60
cps + harmonics: Maybe from the line?  Switching of a rectifier modulating
stray RF?   This may take some sleuthing.

3. Slight irregular random walk frequency instability; frequency counter
points to the BFO.   Not noticed on signals but with the (crystal
controlled) band edge marker tuned in for a low beat note you can hear it.
This sort of thing is usually a bad capacitor or (equivalently) one operated
at higher than rated voltage.

(A crystal controlled BFO would avoid some problems but at 1700 kcs I think
you'd need a crystal for each sideband.   Possible option: use just one and
place the LO above the band on 40 so for normal ham practice the sideband
layout in the IF is always USB.)

4. Shift of the LO tuning by perhaps 20 cps on very strong signals.  Almost
certainly due to (unregulated) LO HV change caused by the varying load
imposed by the AGC controlled RF and IF stages.  Probably fixable by changes
to the HV rectifier/filter circuit.

(Modern 120 VAC lines are better regulated in many areas than all but the
best of VR tubes could do.  Such tubes also add substantially to the power
consumption/heat production; total power consumption now is under 30W for
filaments plus 6W for plates.   And with a line-operated set VR circuits are
problematic: There's often not enough voltage for reliable operation.

(Audio quality rates 'good' on SSB signals; fixing #s 3 and 4 should improve
it by another notch.)

5.  Needs coils for  other bands.  My (used) Eddystone 898 was already
calibrated for 160-80-40-20-15-10 and I had little trouble tracking the
calibration for 80M.   Will probably wind the 20M coils next.

6. There's a little bit of warm-up drift -- maybe 250 cps on 80M?  This will
be a bigger problem on higher bands in greater proportion than with the W6TC
designs because the LO must operate at full frequency rather than half on
the higher ones.  The layout and heat control measures are nearly maxed out
so further improvement will depend on adding temperature compensating
cap(s). 

Ideally temperature compensation is done both in the set and separately in
each coil but making up these coils is difficult enough as it is.  (Since
I'm tracking an existing dial I have to get a three point fit for the
tuning; this requires some cut and try which is a challenge the way the
HBR-type coils are put together.)  Probably I'll underdo the TC for now,
hoping to leave the possibility of adding more in the coils for 20-15-10
where it's likely to be a bigger issue.

7. Needs standby circuit/switch for use with a transmitter.  Probably a
circuit that allows monitoring of the transmitted signal.

8. Needs an audio filter for CW use.

9. Needs a cabinet and some sort of storage for coils.

One justification for obsessing over this project is that the basics
(with suitable changes to all the details)  would be the ideal back end to a
bandswitching double conversion set.   However there's between another month
and another three years of work to finish this one.

Walt Hutchens 
KJ4KV







From wrcromwell at gmail.com  Thu Jul 28 17:33:01 2011
From: wrcromwell at gmail.com (Bill Cromwell)
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:33:01 -0400
Subject: [HBR] The long, SLOW HBR project
In-Reply-To: <CA57129B.4EE3%waltah@earthlink.net>
References: <CA57129B.4EE3%waltah@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1311888781.1966.21.camel@lancelot>

On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 13:29 -0400, Walt Hutchens wrote:
---snip---
> 
> I'm happy to report that things have temporarily swung the other way and
> with perhaps twenty hours of time over a few weeks the project has moved
> forward considerably.
> 
---snip---
> 
> Walt Hutchens 
> KJ4KV


Hi Walt,

It must be encouraging to have signals coming through your HBR. Congrats
on getting that far. Life is what happens while we are busy making other
plans <g>. As for more work to be done - I doubt most homebrew projects
are ever completely "finished". Just one more "what if".

73,

Bill  KU8H


From waltah at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 29 12:53:55 2011
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:53:55 -0400
Subject: [HBR] Another Eddystone 898 -- eBay
Message-ID: <CA5810CA.4FCB%waltah@earthlink.net>

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110721735087&ssPageName=A
DME:B:SS:US:1123

Really the best way to go if building an HBR that you plan to use more than
a little.  This one is said to be (looks!) brand new but they last a LONG
time -- gear drive, with anti-backlash gears where needed.  Slow enough that
you can actually tune in an SSB signal.

The J-B (and Miller) 36/6:1 is a good and cheaper alternative for occasional
use if you can find one that doesn't have much wear but they don't have a
long service life.   The 5:1 Nationals (ACN, MCN ...) of the original HBR-16
design are pretty much 'just for show' unless used only for AM and CW.

Walt
KJ4KV


From waltah at earthlink.net  Fri Jul 29 12:53:55 2011
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:53:55 -0400
Subject: [HBR] The long, SLOW HBR project
In-Reply-To: <1311888781.1966.21.camel@lancelot>
Message-ID: <CA58138A.4FCE%waltah@earthlink.net>

Bill Cromwell posted:

> It must be encouraging to have signals coming through your HBR.
> 
It's a milestone when I can start leaving a receiver connected to an antenna
and listen whenever I'm in the room.   This set was YEARS in the 'not quite
ready' status, so it's very encouraging to be here.

> Congrats on getting that far. Life is what happens while we are busy making
> other plans <g>.
> 
Yep.  It's still worthwhile to try to plan -- if I hadn't, I wouldn't be
doing any of what matters to me right now -- but very little of it is what I
expected and that's especially true with the shortage of ham radio time.

> As for more work to be done - I doubt most homebrew projects are ever
> completely "finished". Just one more "what if".

A fact, but one that I plan to continue shaking my fist at.  Hi.

I do want to wrap this one up.   But life is about to rear its head again,
so the HBR work will have to slow down.

Walt
KJ4KV 




From cklawitter at wi.rr.com  Fri Jul 29 13:04:33 2011
From: cklawitter at wi.rr.com (Chuck Klawitter)
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:04:33 -0500
Subject: [HBR] HBR Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.93.1311955241.25810.hbr@mailman.qth.net>
References: <mailman.93.1311955241.25810.hbr@mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <FC4A769E889648A8B2BDA11B2FDDFEB3@klawitterhome>

Go Walt!!
I bought the 19JN8's a few years ago.
Chuck, W9VZR

-----Original Message-----
From: hbr-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:hbr-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On
Behalf Of hbr-request at mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 11:01 AM
To: hbr at mailman.qth.net
Subject: HBR Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2

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Today's Topics:

   1. The long, SLOW HBR project (Walt Hutchens)
   2. Re: The long, SLOW HBR project (Bill Cromwell)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 13:29:50 -0400
From: Walt Hutchens <waltah at earthlink.net>
Subject: [HBR] The long, SLOW HBR project
To: <hbr at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <CA57129B.4EE3%waltah at earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

A few years ago I set out to build a receiver loosely along W6TC lines but
with some changes and updates.   I reported on early progress a number of
times but as other things overwhelmed my hobby time, the project slowed to a
crawl.  I remember estimating that finishing up the next couple of circuits
might take another year or two.

I'm happy to report that things have temporarily swung the other way and
with perhaps twenty hours of time over a few weeks the project has moved
forward considerably.

This is a 'transformerless' receiver -- series string filaments, high
voltage by rectifying the AC line.  Single conversion with a 1700 kcs IF.  A
half lattice crystal filter provides selectivity.   No solid state devices
are used.  Plug-in coils.  The tube line up is:

19JN8 (pentode-triode) RF/3500 kcs band edge marker
12BZ6 Local oscillator
19J6 Mixer 
19JN8 1st IF/negative HV rectifier
19JN8 2nd IF/AGC plate detector
12AX7 Audio detector
19JN8 1st Audio amp/BFO
117N7 2nd Audio amp/positive HV rectifier

Basically everything now works.  The most interesting of the recent round of
problems/fixes was roughness on strong SSB signals caused by locking/pulling
(to the IF signal) of the BFO.  This was solved by adding a 'gimmick' of
about 1 mmf to cancel out the leakage of the signal into the BFO circuit --
think in terms of a neutralizing cap.

Another interesting one was hum modulation of strong carriers, audible with
the audio gain turned fully up and causing a slight warble on beat notes.
This was solved by AGC circuit, IF transformer, and IF bypassing changes.

Remaining problems/needed features:

1. Intermittent complete failure with a loud rushing noise replacing normal
signals.  This is most likely a front end VHF oscillation since tuning
receiver causes loud crackling/popping noises indicating high current
flowing in the tuning cap: The 19J6 mixer is a good bet since this tube is
good to 600 mcs as an oscillator and the problem isn't changed by disabling
the RF stage by flipping on the band edge marker.

2. Slight buzz audible with no signal and the audio gain fully up.  It's 60
cps + harmonics: Maybe from the line?  Switching of a rectifier modulating
stray RF?   This may take some sleuthing.

3. Slight irregular random walk frequency instability; frequency counter
points to the BFO.   Not noticed on signals but with the (crystal
controlled) band edge marker tuned in for a low beat note you can hear it.
This sort of thing is usually a bad capacitor or (equivalently) one operated
at higher than rated voltage.

(A crystal controlled BFO would avoid some problems but at 1700 kcs I think
you'd need a crystal for each sideband.   Possible option: use just one and
place the LO above the band on 40 so for normal ham practice the sideband
layout in the IF is always USB.)

4. Shift of the LO tuning by perhaps 20 cps on very strong signals.  Almost
certainly due to (unregulated) LO HV change caused by the varying load
imposed by the AGC controlled RF and IF stages.  Probably fixable by changes
to the HV rectifier/filter circuit.

(Modern 120 VAC lines are better regulated in many areas than all but the
best of VR tubes could do.  Such tubes also add substantially to the power
consumption/heat production; total power consumption now is under 30W for
filaments plus 6W for plates.   And with a line-operated set VR circuits are
problematic: There's often not enough voltage for reliable operation.

(Audio quality rates 'good' on SSB signals; fixing #s 3 and 4 should improve
it by another notch.)

5.  Needs coils for  other bands.  My (used) Eddystone 898 was already
calibrated for 160-80-40-20-15-10 and I had little trouble tracking the
calibration for 80M.   Will probably wind the 20M coils next.

6. There's a little bit of warm-up drift -- maybe 250 cps on 80M?  This will
be a bigger problem on higher bands in greater proportion than with the W6TC
designs because the LO must operate at full frequency rather than half on
the higher ones.  The layout and heat control measures are nearly maxed out
so further improvement will depend on adding temperature compensating
cap(s). 

Ideally temperature compensation is done both in the set and separately in
each coil but making up these coils is difficult enough as it is.  (Since
I'm tracking an existing dial I have to get a three point fit for the
tuning; this requires some cut and try which is a challenge the way the
HBR-type coils are put together.)  Probably I'll underdo the TC for now,
hoping to leave the possibility of adding more in the coils for 20-15-10
where it's likely to be a bigger issue.

7. Needs standby circuit/switch for use with a transmitter.  Probably a
circuit that allows monitoring of the transmitted signal.

8. Needs an audio filter for CW use.

9. Needs a cabinet and some sort of storage for coils.

One justification for obsessing over this project is that the basics
(with suitable changes to all the details)  would be the ideal back end to a
bandswitching double conversion set.   However there's between another month
and another three years of work to finish this one.

Walt Hutchens 
KJ4KV








------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 17:33:01 -0400
From: Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HBR] The long, SLOW HBR project
To: HBR Receiver List <hbr at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <1311888781.1966.21.camel at lancelot>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 13:29 -0400, Walt Hutchens wrote:
---snip---
> 
> I'm happy to report that things have temporarily swung the other way and
> with perhaps twenty hours of time over a few weeks the project has moved
> forward considerably.
> 
---snip---
> 
> Walt Hutchens 
> KJ4KV


Hi Walt,

It must be encouraging to have signals coming through your HBR. Congrats
on getting that far. Life is what happens while we are busy making other
plans <g>. As for more work to be done - I doubt most homebrew projects
are ever completely "finished". Just one more "what if".

73,

Bill  KU8H



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
HBR mailing list
HBR at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr


End of HBR Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2
**********************************


From Bobby at McKahans.com  Sat Jul 30 11:33:39 2011
From: Bobby at McKahans.com (Bobby McKahan K4VE)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:33:39 -0400
Subject: [HBR] HBR Digest, Vol 89, Issue 2
References: <mailman.93.1311955241.25810.hbr@mailman.qth.net>
	<FC4A769E889648A8B2BDA11B2FDDFEB3@klawitterhome>
Message-ID: <0D789500F88E458DB83D47A6B2085951@pipesmoke>

I absolutely live for these HBR emails. de Bobby K4VE

From waltah at earthlink.net  Sat Jul 30 18:55:13 2011
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 18:55:13 -0400
Subject: [HBR] The long, SLOW HBR project
In-Reply-To: <CA58138A.4FCE%waltah@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CA59F04F.5195%waltah@earthlink.net>

> Go Walt!!

Thank you!  I'll keep chugging along as long as possible.

> I bought the 19JN8's a few years ago.

I'd suggest looking for the 19J6 as well; there's a young guy out there
Hoovering 'em up for a project he makes and sells, so vintage constructors
have competition for that one and it may take a bit of time.

The 12AT7 might be a substitute but I haven't tried it in this set.  A VHF
power tube (19J6) is a better choice as an HF mixer ...

Also chase down whatever you plan to use as an IF filter.  I had two
crystals that I had custom made about 15-20 years ago for a previous
project: 1700kcs + and - 750 cps, for a half-lattice filter but a real 1650
kcs (whatever) crystal filter would be even better.

And the usual "can't start without it" items -- the dial and tuning
capacitor.

The rest can be bought (or made -- the coil forms) as needed.  The modern
small parts are so far superior to what we had in the 1960 time frame that I
wouldn't consider going vintage underneath.

Current progress:  The grounding in the RF stage has been redone.   The
leads in a plug in coil set can't be as short as you'd like but I've got
them down to the minimum and untangled (I think!) the possible ground loops
between RF stage input and output.

Strange problem found and fixed: Intermittent loss of audio, caused by loose
pins on the octal socket for the 117N7.  Top quality military socket; don't
know what that was about, but it responded to tightening the pins by
carefully forcing a jewler's screwdriver down each hole in the bakelite base
to collapse the contact.

I'm waiting to catch the VHF oscillation in the mixer (if that is what it
is) in the act.   Right now it shows up only as a brief burst of noise when
the set starts to warm up, followed by a few loud clicks.   Then the audio
is muddy for five minutes or so.   I need to try to get it to act up with
the chassis upside down: If touching a mixer grid with a lead pencil makes
the problem go away then the diagnosis is made and I can throw the soldering
iron at it.

I have done some work on the frequency shift of the LO coming from AGC
action.   The shift of frequency by 20 cps (on 80M) comes from a 10 volt
change of osc. high voltage as the AGC voltage goes from zero to cut off.
Going back to the other side of the filter circuits (rectifier cathode) the
voltage change is only 4 volts so I could use a separate filter to get that
much reduction.   Since the oscillator draws only 1 mA that's not a
difficult filter.

But a 60% reduction probably isn't going to be enough for 20M and higher.

It is sometimes possible to change the various resistor values in a pentode
oscillator (with screen serving as plate for the oscillator and the rest of
the tube as a buffer) so frequency is nearly immune to HV changes; I will
look at that.

Beyond that the only option I can think of is a gas regulator.  Most of them
have current ranges 5 mA to 20-25-30 mA depending on the tube.   That's
quite a bit of extra power, especially when you consider that they can't be
operated too near the minimum because if some operating conditions take the
tube lower, the discharge becomes unstable with large current (hence
voltage) excursions.

There is a subminiature gas regulator, the 5644, that would be useful in
some applications but it is in that same power range.

You might think of using a neon bulb as a regulator but the ones designed as
indicators are too unstable in the best of circumstances.  The 991 (used I
think in the LM frequency meter) might be an option but is a hen's tooth
item.

Then I remembered the 5651 voltage reference tube.   This is a neon gas
regulator intended as a reference in high power high accuracy regulators.
Typically it was used to control a small pentode driving a 6080 (low mu
triode) in a series regulator circuit to supply A LOT of HV current to
equipment requiring stable voltage.  One application was in shipboard radar
displays.

The 5651 regulates at about 86 volts, current range 1.5 to 3.5 mA, so it
should work perfectly for an oscillator at 1 mA in a conventional shunt
regulator circuit.  Striking voltage is a bit over 100 volts, easily
available in a line operated set.

In order to get reliable operation, such circuits have to be designed so
that with the minimum output from the rectifier and the maximum load from
the set, there's enough to strike the tube.   You can't rely on the HV surge
you often get at turn on because if the set is snapped off and then back on
before the tubes cool, near full current may be drawn before the rectifier
reaches full output, so you get a gradual rise to final voltage, with no
surge.

Anyway, there are now a couple of ways to go.

Walt
KJ4KV



