From gswynar at durham.net  Fri Oct  9 09:10:13 2009
From: gswynar at durham.net (Edward Swynar)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 09:10:13 -0400
Subject: [HBR] 2009 A.W.A. 1929 QSO Party
Message-ID: <002501ca48e1$d8794c70$f321334a@COMPAQ>

Good Day All,

What with the wet, cold, miserable weather visiting us all of late, now is
as good a time as any for everyone to seriously start thinking about
participation in the 2009 running of The Antique Wireless Association's
"Bruce Kelley Memorial 1929 QSO Party"...

It's slated to be a two weekend affair again this year, as always, i.e.
Saturday 5th December-Sunday 6th December, and Saturday 12th December-Sunday
13th December. To the unitiated, there are power restrictions, and you're
limited to 80- and 40-meters---CW only. No crystal control, either...

But the real joy in this exercise is the fact that your active
device(s)---a.k.a. your choice of "toobs"(!)---is limited to just those
bottles / jugs that a Ham could acquire in the year 1929, and earlier.

A homebrewed transmitter built along these restrictions is a VERY liberating
experience, believe me: no worries about shielding (it's all QRP anyway),
and as for bending metal...? Who cares! Ninety-nine per cent of the rigs
used are built atop foundations of wood!

You're in for a real treat if you've never listened-in on the activities
before: signals can range in quality from the proverbial & modern-sounding
T9X, all the way down to a wheezing buzz saw whose blade is having
difficulty cutting through a knotty pine! It's a lot like being able to go
back in time---seriously.

If you love homebrewing, and have a soft spot in your heart for "...ye good
ol' daze", then this QSO party is for you. Best of all, if the competitive
urge to win dominates your "A"-type personality, you can easily do so with
as little as some 60 QSOs in your log---and you'll have two weekends to do
it all in, too...!

The event is ably MC'ed by Scott (WA9WFA), who is sure to post further
detailed announcements as the Party approaches on the calendar...I couldn't
resist putting in this plug ahead of time, though, in advance of the autumn
Hamfest season, when all of your needed parts & tubes can be acquired,
readily and inexpensively, UNDER the display tables...!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ



From bignick at execpc.com  Fri Oct  9 14:43:10 2009
From: bignick at execpc.com (bignick at execpc.com)
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:43:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HBR] Cheap & Easy Selectivity
In-Reply-To: <4A8E16A1.5010404@cei.net>
References: <003e01ca21ce$a9b966c0$6021334a@COMPAQ> <4A8E16A1.5010404@cei.net>
Message-ID: <4668.69.95.232.36.1255113790.squirrel@newmail.core.com>



Ed,

Am I too late?? Can I still get a copy of said
article?

Thanks!

73

KC9KEP



> Edward Swynar wrote: 
>> Hi Again Everyone, 
>> 
>> If anyone is interested, I just finished
scanning the regenerative IF 
>> article from the November 1940
issue of "RADIO" magazine, and would be 
>> more than
pleased to send it along to whomever it is that might be 
>>
interested... 
>> 
>> It's two pages in length---I
reduced the size & converted the files to 
>> jpeg format,
so that they might be a bit easier to download for those of 
>>
us (myself included!) who are still still on dial-up internet service. 
>> 
>> As mentioned previously, this particular
design---according to the 
>> author---goes one step beyond the
simple "...two wires side by side to 
>> achieve
regeneration in an IF stage" approach. Indeed, he says that not 
>> only is the signal of interest boosted in strength by virtue of
this 
>> circuit, but interfering signals are actually reduced
by a corresponding 
>> amount. 
>> 
>> As
anyone knows who has ever tried a regenerative IF stage, this does 
>> not happen by design, i.e. the reduction in signal strength of
adjacent 
>> frequency QRM. 
>> 
>> 
> Eddie, I'd like a copy please. Thanks Gary N9ZSV 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Anyway, it all sounds like a
very neat design, albeit requiring the 
>> trouble of having to
wind a scramble-wound coil & installing it at the 
>> base
of the secondary winding of the IF transformer. 
>> 
>> ~73!~ Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ 
>> 
>> 
>> **************************************************** 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> 
From: Edward
Swynar 
>> To: hbr at mailman.qth.net ; homebuilttuberadios ; Old
Tube Radios ; 
>> AmRadGear at yahoogroups.com ;
boatanchors at mailman.qth.net ; Welcome to 
>> the Novice Rigs
List! ; antiquewirelessassociation at egroups.com 
>> Sent:
Thursday, August 20, 2009 11:13 AM 
>> Subject: Cheap &
Easy Selectivity 
>> 
>> 
>> Good Morning
All, 
>> 
>> I just ran across a sweet little
article in a 1940 issue of the old 
>> "RADIO"
magazine on a fool-proof way of adding selectivity & gain in 
>> an IF stage that (supposedly) approaches that obtainable with a

>> resonant crystal filter...but without the filter insertion
loss, of 
>> course. 
>> 
>> The design
is rather obscure in that I've never seen anything quite 
>>
like it in any ARRL publication. Suffice it to say that it goes a bit 
>> extra beyond the mere
"...place-the-plate-lead-into-the-IF-can" 
>>
approach of achieving feedback, yet it still looks very
"do-able", and 
>> I plan to incorporate it into my
1929-style 12-tube superhet here. 
>> 
>> If anyone
has access to any of the West Coast Handbooks of the late 
>>
30's, you'll see the design used in the "Super/Ultra Gainer"
receiver 
>> designs described therein... 
>> 
>> Wish me luck! 
>> 
>> ~73~ Eddy VE3CUI -
VE3XZ 
>>
______________________________________________________________ 
>> HBR mailing list 
>> Home:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr 
>> Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
>> Post:
mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net 
>> 
>> This list hosted
by: http://www.qsl.net 
>> Please help support this email list:
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
>> 
>> . 
>> 
>> 
> 
>
______________________________________________________________ 
>
HBR mailing list 
> Home:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr 
> Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post:
mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net 
> 
> This list hosted by:
http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list:
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> 


From gswynar at durham.net  Sun Oct 11 09:14:05 2009
From: gswynar at durham.net (Edward Swynar)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 09:14:05 -0400
Subject: [HBR] 40-Meters, Anyone...?
Message-ID: <003601ca4a74$b68c9a10$5221334a@COMPAQ>

Good Morning All,

Sign-off the tube you're staring at, QSY yourself down to the shack at the
top end of 40-meters, & make some noise, AM-style...!

It's now almost 9:15 AM EDST (1315Z), and I plan to do exactly that here in
a mere matter of minutes.

Hope to hear / work someone up there for a change!

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ



From mike46 at shaw.ca  Sun Oct 11 10:00:44 2009
From: mike46 at shaw.ca (Michael Hardie)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:00:44 -0700
Subject: [HBR] 40-Meters, Anyone...?
References: <003601ca4a74$b68c9a10$5221334a@COMPAQ>
Message-ID: <50288BB315B044488EE867F0CC478CB2@userd0315415c7>

Crumbs Ed, nothing but oriental bcst stations.

Mike VE7MMH


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Edward Swynar" <gswynar at durham.net>
To: "Old Tube Radios" <glowbugs at piobaire.mines.uidaho.edu>; 
<AmRadGear at yahoogroups.com>; <hbr at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:14 AM
Subject: [HBR] 40-Meters, Anyone...?


> Good Morning All,
>
> Sign-off the tube you're staring at, QSY yourself down to the shack at the
> top end of 40-meters, & make some noise, AM-style...!
>
> It's now almost 9:15 AM EDST (1315Z), and I plan to do exactly that here 
> in
> a mere matter of minutes.
>
> Hope to hear / work someone up there for a change!
>
> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From rcgvrg at juno.com  Sun Oct 11 17:51:01 2009
From: rcgvrg at juno.com (RogDog)
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:51:01 GMT
Subject: [HBR] Cheap & Easy Selectivity (bignick@execpc.com)
Message-ID: <20091011.175101.11681.2@webmail12.dca.untd.com>

I'd still like a copy also.
tnx 73
Roger KB2ZXY
____________________________________________________________
Online Medical Insurance
Get free online medical insurance quotes and save more money today.
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From gswynar at durham.net  Wed Oct 14 12:02:00 2009
From: gswynar at durham.net (Edward Swynar)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:02:00 -0400
Subject: [HBR] 40-Meters AM, Anyone...?
Message-ID: <000201ca4ce7$ccbc4f90$0421334a@COMPAQ>

Good Day All,

Well, I've just about finished all of my "...honey dews" for the day, & plan
to fire-up the Drake T-4X / homebrew 1929-style superhet combo for some AM
action at around 7290-KHz, in about a half hour, or less (i.e. 12:30 PM EDST
/ 1630 GMT)...

Anyone around who might care to join me...?

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ



From gswynar at durham.net  Wed Oct 14 13:46:47 2009
From: gswynar at durham.net (Edward Swynar)
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:46:47 -0400
Subject: [HBR] 40-Meters AM, Anyone...?
Message-ID: <004701ca4cf6$4e5b42f0$0421334a@COMPAQ>

Hi Guys,

Man-o-man, but conditions on 40-meters sure are strange from what I remember
a coupla years back...!

I did manage to work into Pennsylvanvia with 2x59 signals alright, but then
the band took a VERY steep & sudden nosedive & we lost one
another...fortunately, W1VZR jumped in from Maine, & Pete & I managed to
carry on until we signed off a few minutes ago...

Tim (WB8UHZ), if you're reading this, I could just barely hear about 70% of
your transmission---evidently you couldn't copy me at all, because Pete said
you called CQ right in the middle of my transmission! Hi Hi.

I don't know if you'd call the skip long, short, or what---just propagation
that I'm not accustomed to on the band, with a bunch of raspy atmospherics
thrown in for good measure, to boot...

Oh well...many thanks to all who took the time to listen for me. One day
soon I promise I'll drag out my 1962 RCAF version of the Johnson Viking II
(the "C-C" model), & make some AM noise with a "proper" transmitter
(although it IS fun to run the Drake T-4X on AM phone, too---I do love that
rig).

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ



From gswynar at durham.net  Sun Oct 18 08:47:26 2009
From: gswynar at durham.net (Edward Swynar)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:47:26 -0400
Subject: [HBR] "Recollections of a Radio Receiver"
Message-ID: <004001ca4ff1$268edd10$3021334a@COMPAQ>

Good Day All,

It was my pleasure, indeed, for me to have recently received a copy of the
CD "Recollections of a Radio Receiver", as was compiled by Jay (W6HTT)...

If you've ever contemplated homebrewing a tube-type receiver---even a
"non-HBR"-type receiver---there is a veritable goldmine of information
waiting to be mined here...

Similarly, even if you've already built a receiver, there are sure to be
details contained in Jay's disk that you may well have either (A) missed
seeing in different literature before, or, (B) never had the opportunity of
seeing (a prime example in this regard is an article Jay includes that
appeared only in an RSGB publication!).

Here's an example of something that immediately caught THIS veteran's eye (I
say "veteran" because I have two HB superhets to my credit already): the
notion of utilizing a regenerative RF amplifier ahead of my creations has
always been intriguing...the information included in Jay's CD expounds upon
this idea in intricate here-to-fore "undiscovered" details---including
copies of Ted Crosby's actual written communications detailing this very
facet of HB construction...!

Where would you ever find such nuggets elsewhere...?!

If the notion of "reading" a CD off of a CRT / screen is as unappealing to
you as it is to me personally, take heart & do as I do: scan the disk for an
item(s) of interest, then print-out just that portion for leisurely bedside
reading later on...but remember to save the pages into three ring file
folder, as you'll be amazed at how quickly your pages will grow in number.

This CD sure has proven to be a worthwhile addition to the VE3CUI - VE3XZ
library here, to the point that (gulp!) I'm already seriously thinking about
my next HB superhet receiver project...! (Will it never end...?! Hi).

~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ



From kjlopez at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 18 18:09:14 2009
From: kjlopez at earthlink.net (Kenneth Lopez)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:09:14 -0700
Subject: [HBR] "Recollections of a Radio Receiver"
In-Reply-To: <004001ca4ff1$268edd10$3021334a@COMPAQ>
References: <004001ca4ff1$268edd10$3021334a@COMPAQ>
Message-ID: <2BFD7683-8AD8-48E3-A867-7CEE0C430D4A@earthlink.net>

Eddy, and the HBR List,

I too have recently received Jay's compilation CD.

You have captured the essence very well.  I will only echo your  
sentiments.

It is a fabulous resource, and well worth the time and money just for  
the reading.

I was amazed at the breadth and depth of the content, much of which  
does not appear anywhere else.

Jay W6HHT has done a masterful job, and provides a lasting service to  
the Amateur community.

Cheers,

Ken N6TZV


On Oct 18, 2009, at 5:47 AM, Edward Swynar wrote:

> Good Day All,
>
> It was my pleasure, indeed, for me to have recently received a copy  
> of the
> CD "Recollections of a Radio Receiver", as was compiled by Jay  
> (W6HTT)...
>
> If you've ever contemplated homebrewing a tube-type receiver---even a
> "non-HBR"-type receiver---there is a veritable goldmine of information
> waiting to be mined here...
>
> Similarly, even if you've already built a receiver, there are sure  
> to be
> details contained in Jay's disk that you may well have either (A)  
> missed
> seeing in different literature before, or, (B) never had the  
> opportunity of
> seeing (a prime example in this regard is an article Jay includes that
> appeared only in an RSGB publication!).
>
> Here's an example of something that immediately caught THIS  
> veteran's eye (I
> say "veteran" because I have two HB superhets to my credit already):  
> the
> notion of utilizing a regenerative RF amplifier ahead of my  
> creations has
> always been intriguing...the information included in Jay's CD  
> expounds upon
> this idea in intricate here-to-fore "undiscovered" details---including
> copies of Ted Crosby's actual written communications detailing this  
> very
> facet of HB construction...!
>
> Where would you ever find such nuggets elsewhere...?!
>
> If the notion of "reading" a CD off of a CRT / screen is as  
> unappealing to
> you as it is to me personally, take heart & do as I do: scan the  
> disk for an
> item(s) of interest, then print-out just that portion for leisurely  
> bedside
> reading later on...but remember to save the pages into three ring file
> folder, as you'll be amazed at how quickly your pages will grow in  
> number.
>
> This CD sure has proven to be a worthwhile addition to the VE3CUI -  
> VE3XZ
> library here, to the point that (gulp!) I'm already seriously  
> thinking about
> my next HB superhet receiver project...! (Will it never end...?! Hi).
>
> ~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From wmurray348 at aol.com  Sun Oct 25 09:18:44 2009
From: wmurray348 at aol.com (wmurray348 at aol.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:18:44 -0400
Subject: [HBR] help on local oscillator
Message-ID: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>


Hi: All enjoy hearing about everyone's projects. Working on a homebrew superhet, building it backward from audio stage/audio preamp/plate detector/bfo  so I can test functionality as each stage is completed . I am now on local oscillator, trying to use a glass envelope 6j5 for  the schematic in the 1965 ARRL handbook(page 97, diagram 5-14 c. I seem to be getting a really raspy l.o. signal. Think my power supply is reasonably clean, wonder if anyone has some pointers for me. Could it be ac from the filaments causing the problem? I'm new to attempting receivers, interested in anyones suggestions to correct this so I can proceeed to IF and mixer stages. 73 Bill W9VC 

From bignick at execpc.com  Sun Oct 25 17:15:41 2009
From: bignick at execpc.com (bignick at execpc.com)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:15:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HBR] help on local oscillator
In-Reply-To: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <61100.67.53.4.248.1256505341.squirrel@newmail.core.com>



Would it be possible to post an image of the output wave?

When
you say "raspy" does that mean that the?LO wave has spikes
or spurs
or fuzz or something different on it?

--KC9KEP

> 
> Hi: All enjoy hearing about everyone's projects.
Working on a homebrew 
> superhet, building it backward from audio
stage/audio preamp/plate 
> detector/bfo so I can test
functionality as each stage is completed . I 
> am now on local
oscillator, trying to use a glass envelope 6j5 for the 
>
schematic in the 1965 ARRL handbook(page 97, diagram 5-14 c. I seem to be

> getting a really raspy l.o. signal. Think my power supply is
reasonably 
> clean, wonder if anyone has some pointers for me.
Could it be ac from the 
> filaments causing the problem? I'm new
to attempting receivers, interested 
> in anyones suggestions to
correct this so I can proceeed to IF and mixer 
> stages. 73 Bill
W9VC 
>
______________________________________________________________ 
>
HBR mailing list 
> Home:
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr 
> Help:
http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
> Post:
mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net 
> 
> This list hosted by:
http://www.qsl.net 
> Please help support this email list:
http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 
> 


From ianmwilson73 at gmail.com  Sun Oct 25 17:26:58 2009
From: ianmwilson73 at gmail.com (Ian Wilson)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:26:58 -0700
Subject: [HBR] help on local oscillator
In-Reply-To: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <7de2d65c0910251426x7452f91euc6d9d8915b82dc38@mail.gmail.com>

One quick thing to try - a stopper resistor in series with the grid,
positioned close to the grid pin, to act as a VHF stopper. The value
isn't important, something in the 50-100 ohm range might work.

Also, if the plate supply isn't decoupled, add a series resistor and
a capacitor to ground. Try 1k/0.01uF to see if it makes a difference.

73, ian K3IMW

From waltah at earthlink.net  Sun Oct 25 22:49:49 2009
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:49:49 -0500
Subject: [HBR] help on local oscillator
In-Reply-To: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <10110407759.20091025214949@earthlink.net>

Bill said:
> I seem to be getting a really raspy l.o. signal.

Ripple on your B+ is unlikely to produce what you'd call a 'raspy'
signal.  You may get hum (60 or 120 cps, depending on half or
full-wave rectification), you might also get FM, most detectable when
listening to a CW signal or (better yet) by listening to an LO
harmonic using the BFO of very stable receiver.

This 'listen to the harmonic' test is always a good idea for a new
receiver, and ten times more important if you want undistorted SSB
reception.

In circuits that have a 'hot' cathode, you can get serious hum or FM
via heater-cathode leakage but not 'raspy' -- and this circuit has a
grounded cathode.

A VHF parasitic oscillation (as suggested by Ian) is a definite
possibility. With a modern tube I'd put money there; the 6J5 isn't so
likely because the gain is so much lower, especially at VHF. They were
used in early WW-II VHF equipment at frequencies of over 100 Mcs,
however, so it can happen, particularly if the tank circuit leads are
long in your design.

Another possible culprit is a fixed capacitor across the tank circuit
for padding purposes. While this circuit doesn't show one, almost all
ham applications will have such a cap. This LOOKS like a low voltage
application, but it's not: Even a receiver LO can develop in the
ballpark of 100 volts p-p across the tank and the usual modern 50 wv
ceramic cap will break down in a manner that will cause raspiness.

This cap should be rated 250 WV-up.  Yes, lower ratings will
sometimes work.  And sometimes, not.

Also, this cap must be able to carry substantial current, even for a
6J5. For best stability, use the physically largest silver mica you
have available. Still better, use two or three (roughly equal) caps in
parallel.

C1 (the grid coupling cap) can also have a voltage breakdown problem
but is less likely to do so, because it handles much less power, hence
less heating to reduce ability to handle high voltage.

Check the grid resistor, R1. If the product of C1 (grid coupling cap)
and R1 (grid resistor) is too high (100 mmf/47k specified) you have
the possibility of a blocking oscillation as in the simplest types of
superregenerative detector circuit. That'll DEFINITELY sound 'raspy.'

A bad R1 (carbon composition, with poor contact between the lead and
the resistance element) could be arcing a bit and this would certainly
cause raspiness.

Substitute another 6J5.  A slightly gassy tube might possibly cause
something like this.

That's all I can think of.

Walt Hutchens
KJ4KV


From imalowfer at yahoo.com  Mon Oct 26 00:30:23 2009
From: imalowfer at yahoo.com (Ron Barlow)
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 21:30:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [HBR] help on local oscillator
In-Reply-To: <8CC238CCFDB10EA-15C4-1ACD6@webmail-d073.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <806746.76707.qm@web58002.mail.re3.yahoo.com>

Hi Bill,
 Add excessive feedback as a possibility.
                 73 & GL de Ron  n4gjv  

--- On Sun, 10/25/09, wmurray348 at aol.com <wmurray348 at aol.com> wrote:

> From: wmurray348 at aol.com <wmurray348 at aol.com>
> Subject: [HBR] help on local oscillator
> To: hbr at mailman.qth.net
> Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 6:18 AM
> 
> Hi: All enjoy hearing about everyone's projects. Working on
> a homebrew superhet, building it backward from audio
> stage/audio preamp/plate detector/bfo? so I can test
> functionality as each stage is completed . I am now on local
> oscillator, trying to use a glass envelope 6j5 for? the
> schematic in the 1965 ARRL handbook(page 97, diagram 5-14 c.
> I seem to be getting a really raspy l.o. signal. Think my
> power supply is reasonably clean, wonder if anyone has some
> pointers for me. Could it be ac from the filaments causing
> the problem? I'm new to attempting receivers, interested in
> anyones suggestions to correct this so I can proceeed to IF
> and mixer stages. 73 Bill W9VC 
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 


      

From wmurray348 at aol.com  Mon Oct 26 20:31:28 2009
From: wmurray348 at aol.com (wmurray348 at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 20:31:28 -0400
Subject: [HBR] more  w9vc local oscillator
Message-ID: <8CC24B3F55BB80F-4CD8-7844@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com>

Guys : Really appreciate all the constuctive advice and willingness to offer your knowledge . I didnt get any of it till this morning, I guess I'm set up for once a day summary. I have had several back and forth email discussions with Paul WB2NMI, and tried some of his suggestions yesterday. I still work so it will take a week or so to sift thru all your great inputs. I've already learned several new things. Im trying to usre this project as a springboard, building it backwards, testing each stage and the whole chain , one stage at a time. Later I want to attempt a true "HBR" but not attempting a Cadillac right out of the shute, Ive built a lot of 6ag7/6l6 transmitters , but a good receiver is a whole different animal. Some things I learned yesterday, and some things I tried: First I was able to hook up my scope and see a clean sine wave on  the grid, but a not so clean pattern on the plate. The signal on the plate looks like a series of "M" s, there is a spur that drops down between the peaks of each sine wave. Second I learned that its hard to take a picture of a scope pattern the flash evidently messes things up. Some other attempts from yesterday, I removed all the power supply and filament voltages from the 6j5 and hooked it  up to a separate power supply, still had the raspy signal. I also listened to the 4th harmonic of my 455 khz crystal contolled BFO, it was clear as a bell. So I think my power supply is ok. Another thing I did was put a .001 uf didk cap on the filament lead at the 6j5, the other filament lead is connected to chassis so I didnt bother with that one. Another thing I did was reduce the grid resistor from 47k , all the way down to 10k, didnt seem to notice a change in signal quality but it did really reduce the bias voltage , now Im at minus 6 volts. I also changed the coupling cap from the tickler to ground to .005 uf. not sure if that helped any. Also installed a metal 6j5, instead of the glass one. none of these things made a noticeable difference. I also added a .01 uf cap to the bottom of the resistor sonnecting the tickler to the plate, didnt notice any change in the scope. Would a 2.5 mh choke be a good replacement for that particular resistor? Paul suggests trying a ECO oscillator or the tapped coil version of this circuit . I havnt had time to try any of Walts ideas. Had to rake leaves so xyl thinks I'm worth keeping Thanks again all, send your ideas of what Im doing wrong!!! then I can attempt my i.f. stages and mixer later on. 73 Bill W9VC

From waltah at earthlink.net  Mon Oct 26 22:36:02 2009
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:36:02 -0500
Subject: [HBR] more  w9vc local oscillator
In-Reply-To: <8CC24B3F55BB80F-4CD8-7844@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC24B3F55BB80F-4CD8-7844@webmail-m092.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <58325400.20091026213602@earthlink.net>

Bill said:
> First I was able to hook up my scope and see a clean sine wave on
> the grid, but a not so clean pattern on the plate. The signal on the
> plate looks like a series of "M" s, there is a spur that drops down
> between the peaks of each sine wave.

This is normal.  Such an oscillator will operate class 'C', that is,
with the tube cut off over most of each cycle.  So what you see on the
plate over most of the cycle is voltage coupled from the tank circuit.
No plate current is flowing.  Then comes the pulse of plate current
where the grid is driven positive and the plate voltage will fall as
current flows: This is the (brief) period when the energy is coupled
into the tank circuit for the next cycle.

> Second I learned that its hard to take a picture of a scope pattern
> the flash evidently messes things up.

Don't use a flash for scope pictures. Start with the shutter speed
roughly equal to the scope sweep time and use the aperture setting
to get the trace to look right in your picture.

If the trace is clear and stable then you can use a longer shutter time
(lower speed) to brighten the trace if needed.

I wouldn't make a bunch of changes, let alone try a whole different
circuit until you've fixed the raspiness. Problems like that have a
message and you want to be able to QSL that, before going on, so
you'll know the next time you encounter the issue. Three to one it'll
be either the parasitic, too much feedback (controlled by the plate
coil number of turns and spacing), or a part (most likely a cap across
the tank) breaking down.

Often you can diagnose a parasitic by touching the grid or plate with
the lead of a pencil.  This advanced diagnostic tool will often
absorb enough VHF energy to kill (or nearly) the parasitic.  Of course
it will also somewhat reduce the amplitude of HF oscillation, so it might
also hide a part that's breaking down, so you can't really be certain.
But after you fool with enough oscillators that have VHF parasitics
you'll learn the signs.  For example, touching one end of a wire (that
has VHF on it) with the pencil lead will have one effect but touching
the other end of the same wire will do something different.

For HF a wire is a wire; for VHF that same wire is an inductor that's
part of a tuned circuit. Making a stage operate at HF WITHOUT VHF
parasitics requires that you make the gain low enough that it won't
oscillate at the frequencies determined by the parasitic tank circuits
that are found in every circuit. This is usually not a problem with
tubes like the 6J5 but with modern tubes -- 6BZ6's, the TV UHF
oscillator tubes like the 6AF4, the 6J6, both sections of the modern
triode-pentode tubes (6CL8, etc.), and the like -- you might as well
start with a 100 ohm resistor in series with the grid.

Oscillators don't have parasitics as often as amplifiers do because
the tube is cut off most of the (HF) cycle and the grid is drawing
current for the rest of the time, which damps the VHF circuit.  But it
can happen.

Be careful of high voltage issues when probing around a vacuum tube
circuit with a lead pencil that you're holding ... In a receiver
circuit this test is pretty safe with one hand in your pocket, dry
floor, etc., but when voltages get higher, not so

One question: How are you hearing this raspy sound?  Listening to the
oscillator in a receiver, or ???

You MAY be able to SEE the raspiness on the scope if you slow the
sweep down enough and fool with the triggering.  Or connecting the
scope may make the bad sound go away -- if so, it's most likely the
parasitic.

Yep, I got leaves to do, too.  I'm at about 15% of the annual chore
...  But it's good exercise.

Walt
KJ4KV



From n2apb at verizon.net  Wed Oct 28 12:21:15 2009
From: n2apb at verizon.net (George N2APB)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:21:15 -0400
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
Message-ID: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>

I?ve been actively following this group for a year, and have recently ramped
up my collection of parts for the HBR-16 and the mating HBT-200
transmitter(*).  Thanks to all of you for the expert guidance along the way,
and I?m now ready to dive in big-time on the construction! Currently cutting
the panels of a couple old R75A-4 cabinets, and putting holes into the
aluminum chassis.

But here?s a general dilemma I find myself in ... I know transistors like
the back of my hand, but the experience of: which tubes are newer/older,
what tubes are better for this or that, what tube characteristics are really
important or not, what tube is subject to parasitics more or less, et al ...
is all a part of history that I?ve missed out on over the years.  I started
out with tubes as a novice in the late 60?s, but the world quickly
transitioned to semiconductors and most hams like me just stayed with them
going forward.  

I?m an active EE and an over-active homebrewer, so the older technology
doesn?t bother me at all ? it?s actually rather refreshing because most of
the principles are the same and haven?t changed (gain, noise, amplification,
detection, IMD, LOs, et al) ?  but the nuances of tube utilization really
haven?t been chronicled other than by piecemeal fashion in individual
project articles or intro sections of older Handbooks.

So here?s my question ... Is there a recommended book, article series, or
whatever, that might categorize, classify, group or explain tubes and
characteristic used in different applications? It?s not the published tube
parameters in the data sheet, but the usage and experience of one?s use over
another.  What brings me to this point is Walt?s KJ4KV recent good post
about differences with similar tubes (6J5 vs. 6BZ6, 6AF4, etc.).  I can, and
have been, reading ER, old handbooks and QST articles until I?m (happily)
blue in the face, but that?s the piecemeal approach that I mentioned being
all that I?ve found.

Thanks for any guidance, guys.

73, George N2APB

*  Thanks much to Charles McLaughlin for spotting my post several weeks back
in search of the HBT-200 article.  It was in the Orr handbook (17th Edition)
and it was exactly what I was searching for!

From tshoppa at wmata.com  Wed Oct 28 12:49:55 2009
From: tshoppa at wmata.com (Shoppa, Tim)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:49:55 -0400
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
In-Reply-To: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>
References: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB8724502C4824734@EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local>

> So here?s my question ... Is there a recommended book, article series, or
> whatever, that might categorize, classify, group or explain tubes and
> characteristic used in different applications?

Good starts for smaller tubes are:

RCA Receiving Tube Handbook. Different editions span different years. They include cross-refs by application, selection charts, and many tube parameters. For HBR era stuff a postwar book with miniatures is the obvious choice, and reprints of RC-30 (1973) are readily available from Antique Electronic Supply etc. The later you go, the more compactrons and TV-type tubes you see, if this is important to you (depending on your bent it may not be desirable!). Many example schematics.

Radiotron Designers Handbook. Not so much a databook but a encyclopedic book about radio and tube design.

Ternan's books on Radio Engineering are good too.

Some university level textbooks common in the 1950's:
Spangenberg, "Vacuum Tubes"
Seely, "Electron Tube Circuits"
Millman & Seely.
Millman and Taubes.

If you have a good technical library near you, the MIT Radiation Lab series.

A lot of figures and tables you find in the 40's-50's-60's-70's ARRL Handbooks are actually taken from the above books.

Tim.


From kjlopez at earthlink.net  Wed Oct 28 17:51:44 2009
From: kjlopez at earthlink.net (Kenneth Lopez)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:51:44 -0700
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
In-Reply-To: <B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB8724502C4824734@EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local>
References: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>
	<B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB8724502C4824734@EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local>
Message-ID: <0B897D0B-8BE3-42D2-819A-20B3C5C2611F@earthlink.net>

My suggestions include some of Tim's:

The  Radiotron Designers Handbook 4th Edition (Big Red Book) is really  
the only edition worth considering.  Available used on Amazon from $30  
and up.  I would consider it a must.  FYI this is the book that Leo  
Fender used when starting guitar amplifier designs.  Then he tweaked  
circuits until he found what he envisioned.

Late editions of the Radio Engineer's Handbook by Henney

Electronic and Radio Engineering by Terman

Radio Engineering by Terman

50's & 60's editions of The Radio Handbook by Orr

50's & early 60's editions of ARRL Handbook

Multiple editions of the RCA Transmitting Tube manual, and RCA  
Receiving Tube manuals

Radio Physics Course by Ghirardi

Radio Transmitters by Gray and Graham

Much of the development work pertinent to what you might wish to learn  
was well documented in the '50s and early '60s.  I probably would  
stick to those editions of most of the available books.

A really good resource, besides Amazon and Antique Electronics Supply,  
would be a good local or online bookstore that has some specialty in  
technical books.  There are many dozens of books that were in print in  
that era, which was the peak of tube research and development.
One that I have frequented is Bargain Books in Van Nuys, CA  http://www.bargainbooks-online.com/


Many good books on tube audio were published including 1st and 2nd  
editions of The Audio Encyclopedia, and others by Harry Olson, etc.

I have been a technical book junkie for many years (OK, perhaps just a  
book junkie).

Cheers,

Ken N6TZV

On Oct 28, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Shoppa, Tim wrote:

>> So here?s my question ... Is there a recommended book, article  
>> series, or
>> whatever, that might categorize, classify, group or explain tubes and
>> characteristic used in different applications?
>
> Good starts for smaller tubes are:
>
> RCA Receiving Tube Handbook. Different editions span different  
> years. They include cross-refs by application, selection charts, and  
> many tube parameters. For HBR era stuff a postwar book with  
> miniatures is the obvious choice, and reprints of RC-30 (1973) are  
> readily available from Antique Electronic Supply etc. The later you  
> go, the more compactrons and TV-type tubes you see, if this is  
> important to you (depending on your bent it may not be desirable!).  
> Many example schematics.
>
> Radiotron Designers Handbook. Not so much a databook but a  
> encyclopedic book about radio and tube design.
>
> Ternan's books on Radio Engineering are good too.
>
> Some university level textbooks common in the 1950's:
> Spangenberg, "Vacuum Tubes"
> Seely, "Electron Tube Circuits"
> Millman & Seely.
> Millman and Taubes.
>
> If you have a good technical library near you, the MIT Radiation Lab  
> series.
>
> A lot of figures and tables you find in the 40's-50's-60's-70's ARRL  
> Handbooks are actually taken from the above books.
>
> Tim.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html


From texaspatriot67 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 28 21:04:13 2009
From: texaspatriot67 at gmail.com (Preston clark)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:04:13 -0500
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
In-Reply-To: <0B897D0B-8BE3-42D2-819A-20B3C5C2611F@earthlink.net>
References: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>
	<B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB8724502C4824734@EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local>
	<0B897D0B-8BE3-42D2-819A-20B3C5C2611F@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <1b6c3380910281804t2ff639eep2d965ed11c890550@mail.gmail.com>

i would like  to know if there any books on on building vacuum tube radios
 for ham radio  from scratch thanks Preston

On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Kenneth Lopez <kjlopez at earthlink.net>wrote:

> My suggestions include some of Tim's:
>
> The  Radiotron Designers Handbook 4th Edition (Big Red Book) is really
> the only edition worth considering.  Available used on Amazon from $30
> and up.  I would consider it a must.  FYI this is the book that Leo
> Fender used when starting guitar amplifier designs.  Then he tweaked
> circuits until he found what he envisioned.
>
> Late editions of the Radio Engineer's Handbook by Henney
>
> Electronic and Radio Engineering by Terman
>
> Radio Engineering by Terman
>
> 50's & 60's editions of The Radio Handbook by Orr
>
> 50's & early 60's editions of ARRL Handbook
>
> Multiple editions of the RCA Transmitting Tube manual, and RCA
> Receiving Tube manuals
>
> Radio Physics Course by Ghirardi
>
> Radio Transmitters by Gray and Graham
>
> Much of the development work pertinent to what you might wish to learn
> was well documented in the '50s and early '60s.  I probably would
> stick to those editions of most of the available books.
>
> A really good resource, besides Amazon and Antique Electronics Supply,
> would be a good local or online bookstore that has some specialty in
> technical books.  There are many dozens of books that were in print in
> that era, which was the peak of tube research and development.
> One that I have frequented is Bargain Books in Van Nuys, CA
> http://www.bargainbooks-online.com/
>
>
> Many good books on tube audio were published including 1st and 2nd
> editions of The Audio Encyclopedia, and others by Harry Olson, etc.
>
> I have been a technical book junkie for many years (OK, perhaps just a
> book junkie).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ken N6TZV
>
> On Oct 28, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Shoppa, Tim wrote:
>
> >> So here?s my question ... Is there a recommended book, article
> >> series, or
> >> whatever, that might categorize, classify, group or explain tubes and
> >> characteristic used in different applications?
> >
> > Good starts for smaller tubes are:
> >
> > RCA Receiving Tube Handbook. Different editions span different
> > years. They include cross-refs by application, selection charts, and
> > many tube parameters. For HBR era stuff a postwar book with
> > miniatures is the obvious choice, and reprints of RC-30 (1973) are
> > readily available from Antique Electronic Supply etc. The later you
> > go, the more compactrons and TV-type tubes you see, if this is
> > important to you (depending on your bent it may not be desirable!).
> > Many example schematics.
> >
> > Radiotron Designers Handbook. Not so much a databook but a
> > encyclopedic book about radio and tube design.
> >
> > Ternan's books on Radio Engineering are good too.
> >
> > Some university level textbooks common in the 1950's:
> > Spangenberg, "Vacuum Tubes"
> > Seely, "Electron Tube Circuits"
> > Millman & Seely.
> > Millman and Taubes.
> >
> > If you have a good technical library near you, the MIT Radiation Lab
> > series.
> >
> > A lot of figures and tables you find in the 40's-50's-60's-70's ARRL
> > Handbooks are actually taken from the above books.
> >
> > Tim.
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > HBR mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

From daileyservices at qwest.net  Wed Oct 28 22:48:40 2009
From: daileyservices at qwest.net (TC Dailey)
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:48:40 -0600
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
References: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net><B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB8724502C4824734@EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local><0B897D0B-8BE3-42D2-819A-20B3C5C2611F@earthlink.net>
	<1b6c3380910281804t2ff639eep2d965ed11c890550@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E9370E762F1346BDA1FEACB8296BD81A@w0eaj>

Gee Whiz - of course there are..... typically, they're called the RADIO 
AMATEUR'S HANDBOOK.... been puttin' 'em out since about 1919


i would like  to know if there any books on on building vacuum tube radios
 for ham radio  from scratch thanks Preston



From waltah at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 29 05:03:11 2009
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 04:03:11 -0500
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
In-Reply-To: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>
References: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <1158301984.20091029040311@earthlink.net>

George said:
> I know transistors like the back of my hand, but the experience of:
> which tubes are newer/older, what tubes are better for this or that,
> what tube characteristics are really important or not, what tube is
> subject to parasitics more or less, et al ... is all a part of
> history that I?ve missed out on over the years.

Tim's response is really excellent.

There were two main trends in vacuum tube design over the years:

1. Improved accuracy in construction, allowing for smaller structures,
closer element spacings, and so on.  These allowed higher gain and --
since the upper frequency limit of a tube is established by the size
of its element structure in wavelengths -- successful operation at
steadily higher frequencies.

(Wartime designs look like an exception: the 2C40, 2C39, etc.,
'lighthouse' tubes will perk along at around 3000 Mcs. But these tubes
succeeded by cheating: The elements are flat and are stacked up, held
in place by being fused to rings of glass. This allowed precise
parallelism and extremely close spacings -- but the structure was
horrifically expensive to make and sockets and circuits to use it,
equally costly. Only the military and aviation made extensive use of
these devices.)

2. Better understanding of tube design principles and operation
allowing the design of better tubes for specific applications. For
example, the 6EH7 -- one of the last TV IF pentodes -- is hands down a
better RF/IF tube for high gain WITH outstanding strong signal
performance, and particularly so in an AVC-controlled stage. The last
generation of power tubes for SSB linear amplifier service are far
better than the tubes first adapted to this job -- and so on.

There were many specific innovations that had substantial impact: The
higher emission cathode coatings (of about 1960 I think?) made
possible more tube with less heater power:  The 35GL6 is identical to
the 50C5 but with about 1/4 less power.

It's helpful to understand how the numbers were assigned to U.S.
receiving tubes.  The first digit, of course, was the filament
voltage.  Tubes numbered '6' have 6.3 volt filaments.

Within a filament voltage, the first letter goes in sequence: The 6A6
is an OLD tube the 6E5 came later, the 6L6 later still ... these are
all 1930's tubes, many of them with large (old) five to seven pin
bases.

HOWEVER ... the last digit -- think of this as the number of elements,
thus a '4' is a triode with a separate cathode -- qualifies the
letter. So tubes with a different number of elements might get
assigned a seemingly much earlier number: The 6C4 is a miniature 7-pin
base triode, an early post-war type.

When the number-letter-number assignments ran out, a second letter was
added right after the number.  The 6AK6, for example, is another early
post-war type.  Development of new types pretty well ran out by the
time this added letter hit mid-alphabet: The latest number that comes
to mind is the 6ME8 -- a 'beam deflection' type, developed for TV
color demodulator service but useful in mixing applications.

There are some 'wrinkles': Rectifiers got high letter assignments, the
letter 'S' as a first letter was used in the late 1930's, and probably
more that don't come to mind.

Later types are simply better tubes -- higher gain, lower noise,
better linearity, etc. But that doesn't necessarily translate to "you
can build better equipment with later types." You can almost always
build equivalent equipment with fewer tubes using the later types,
especially if you can use dual triodes or triode-pentodes in place of
separate tubes.  If you're building for VHF, yes, the later types are
unmistakably better, a conventional superhet (RF-mixer-IF-IF-detector
...) design will be better with later tubes, but who says you have to
be conventional?

Because later tubes have higher gain, technique issues that wouldn't
matter for earlier tubes must be gotten right. VHF parasitic
oscillations aren't a defect in the tube, they are a consequence of a
particular combination of a tube and the physical layout of the
circuit in which that tube is used. If you take a receiver designed
around 6SK7s (remote cutoff pentodes of late 30's vintage) and
substitute 6EH7s (same, 1960's vintage) you will probably either have
to take steps to improve the physical circuit, or use the better tubes
at much below their full gain.

WHAT steps? Well, that will depend on the design and physical
construction. The DC voltages may need to be changed somewhat. The
6EH7 should be compatible with the AVC voltage used with 6SK7s. Better
bypassing might be required, perhaps shorter leads (not always
possible), suppression of VHF parasitics ... If three 6SK7 stages are
replaced, there will be far too much overall gain, possibly leading to
a multi-stage instability.

I'm about 3/4 through building a variation on the W6TC receiver using
later tubes. The thing gave me absolute fits with RF-stage instability
until I returned the 'cold' ends of the coils directly to the
respective rotor contacts on the tuning cap.  Looking back, this
should have been obvious but it took me a month of occasional head
scratching to discover.

In beginning to build 'vintage-type' equipment, I think one is wise to
build at least a couple of established designs with as few changes as
possible. The ARRL Handbook designs are probably the best-tested of
the simple receivers and transmitters. (The W6TC 'HBR' series is the
major exception -- NO receiver was more widely built or described in
the ham literature. But this is a lot of receiver for a beginner to
tackle.) When a tested design is written up by an experienced author,
the construction points that must be gotten right are generally
explained in the text.

(Finding the parts to duplicate an established design, however, can be
a real challenge.  And when you start substituting, you lose some
fraction of the value of 'established' -- maybe most of it.  Changing
from one brand of 455 kcs IFTs to another contemporary brand probably
won't cause trouble but if you decide to substitute IFTs of a
different frequency, either with or without adjustments to the tuning,
all bets are off for those stages.)

Because the best tubes were designed for TV applications right at the
end of the vacuum tube era when ham designers were running open
mouthed after transistor designs, few well-tested ham designs exist
for these tubes. Much of what there is, is one-off: A smart guy built
one and wrote it up for CQ or QST.  This is both bad and good news:
The bad is that there's not much equipment you can simply copy, but
the good is that there's a very interesting challenge for the
determined home constructor.

The bulk of ham vacuum tube design followed well-worn trails, based on
limited understanding of the issues. Commercial ham sets mostly
reduced-cost variations on commercial comm equipment and nearly all of
them had strictly limited design budgets. (Collins was an exception,
National also, to a lesser extent.) Hams who 'rolled their own'
generally did so starting from the commercial design base. I think the
best ham equipment designs using vacuum tubes were never built.

Walt Hutchens
KJ4KV













From Bill at LizCurtisHiggs.com  Thu Oct 29 08:42:04 2009
From: Bill at LizCurtisHiggs.com (Bill Higgs)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:42:04 -0400
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
Message-ID: <E520CCCBC00E4F619CF5F92A4C772FB0@BILLDESKTOP>

You might also want to note the article in November 1958 QST, Recommended Tube Types for Amateur Short-Wave Receivers, on page 22. A good discussion of why certain types are used in certain circuits; sharp cutoff, remote cutoff, etc. ARRL members can get the article from the archive on the website.  This predates the frame grid and beam deflection tubes, but is a good overview of the technology at the time of the HBR's publication.

Bill Higgs, NT4C

From ianmwilson73 at gmail.com  Thu Oct 29 11:24:30 2009
From: ianmwilson73 at gmail.com (Ian Wilson)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 08:24:30 -0700
Subject: [HBR] Hot-rodding an HR10
Message-ID: <7de2d65c0910290824l67aacd5ue41700c0e1e33d6a@mail.gmail.com>

A few months ago I acquired a somewhat stripped Heathkit HR-10. It
actually turned
out to be operational, but since I wanted to donate the lattice filter
crystals to someone
whose had been stolen from a radio on display at Dayton(!), and the HR-10 has a
number of design flaws, I decided to use this as a testbed for developing a dual
conversion receiver.

The scheme I have in mind is close to that used by G2DAF: crystal-controlled
converters down to a tunable IF of 4.5-5MHz, second IF of 455kHz with a 455kHz
SSB filter preceding the 455kHz IF amplifier strip. (My choice of 1st
IF is more a
function of the crystals that I have on hand rather than a thorough
analysis of the
spurii. I wanted to see how the idea worked in practice).

The HR-10 has a 1.7MHz IF/BFO. Converting this to 455kHz proved surprisingly
easy; the Heathkit IFTs are the standard smallish square footprint ones held in
place my a spring clip through the chassis. The final IFT should be a
'diode' type
but since I don't have one, I used a regular types. I had a 455kHz BFO coil that
was pressed into service as a Hartley to replace the original Colpitts
oscillator
(since my coil had a feedback winding rather than a tap).

Had to add a 22k resistor across one of the IFTs to tame the IF strip
but now it's
working like a charm.

The original LO was removed and replaced with a Pierce crystal oscillator (using
the same triode half of the 6EA8 as the original). This works OK at 12MHz (the
converter frequency for 40m). I haven't worked out a good switching scheme yet;
the switches ground all the unused positions, which limits what you can do.

A dual-gang variable capacitor was added. This now becomes the preselector
(with the original input bandswitched coils unchanged). The original triple-gang
tuning capacitor now becomes the tunable IF + oscillator control (2 gangs used).

There was some spare space behind the coil screening box at the rear of the
chassis. Using ugly construction on a piece of PCB (is that cheating in a tube
design?), I built the following:
  - second mixer (5840 subminiature pentode)
  - cathode follower (5718 subminiature triode)
  - tunable oscillator (5840 subminiature pentode)
The coupling from first mixer to second mixer (4.5-5MHz) is a fixed-tuned LC,
small capacitor to variable-tuned LC in the second mixer grid.
(The cathode follower is present because of the need to match down to the low-
impedance 455kHz filter. The first 455kHz amplifier stage has been changed to
common-grid to provide a similar, low-impedance input for the filter).
At present I
am bypassing the filter to get the "easy" stuff working.

Although the individual pieces worked (and I had most of this working
with separate
modules on the testbench in a previous project), I had all kinds of
trouble getting
anything through the second mixer. In the end, I changed the mixer from cathode
injection to grid injection - if it works for the HBR, it should work
for me! - and
suddenly things started coming to life. A good omen was hearing a nice glowbug
CW signal.

A second problem - buzzy and 'thin' sound when using the BFO turned out to be
due to low BFO injection. The HR-10 relies on stray capacitance to
couple the BFO
to the second IF amplifier tube. Adding a 5pF capacitor from the BFO
cathode to the
IF amplifier grid cleared up this particular problem.

Next step will be to stabilize the power supply to the LO and BFO. I
will replace the
original 6X4 rectifier and use the socket for a 0B2 VR tube. This will
also free up
0.36A of filament current. The three subminiature tubes use a total of
0.45A; the two
#47 pilot lamps (not used) took 0.3A total; result: no additional stress on the
(probably marginally spec'd) Heathkit power transformer.

Once that's done I will insert the 455kHz filter (physically in place
but bypassed)
and see what happens.

The whole BFO injection/detection area of the HR-10 is pretty minimal
(an AM diode
detector with BFO injected into the IF chain, so you can't use AGC
when the BFO is
on). However, I am not going to rebuild this, rather, use the lessons
learned on a
future receiver.

This has been a very interesting learning experience. Even though I
started with a
working rig, and had a working prototype in module form, this has taken a lot of
effort to get working. This gives me even more respect for the HBR
design, and the
number of people who have successfully built one.

73, ian K3IMW

From waltah at earthlink.net  Thu Oct 29 12:08:19 2009
From: waltah at earthlink.net (Walt Hutchens)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 11:08:19 -0500
Subject: [HBR] Hot-rodding an HR10
In-Reply-To: <7de2d65c0910290824l67aacd5ue41700c0e1e33d6a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7de2d65c0910290824l67aacd5ue41700c0e1e33d6a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <926565928.20091029110819@earthlink.net>

What a great project!

> This has been a very interesting learning experience. Even though I
> started with a working rig, and had a working prototype in module
> form, this has taken a lot of effort to get working. This gives me
> even more respect for the HBR design, and the number of people who
> have successfully built one.

I think this mirrors the experience of many folks who have been down
the 'rebuild in place' road.  There's more to it than meets the eye,
especially when you start recognizing and trying to fix design flaws
in the original.

Neither of my two attempts to build a vacuum tube receiver from an
FT-101 junker succeeded, although there was much that did work.  I
will revisit these projects in the future.

In fairness, one of them succumbed to dog urine.  So that's not truly
a design flaw.

Walt
KJ4KV
http://www.timbreblue.com



From garypewitt at centurytel.net  Thu Oct 29 19:08:14 2009
From: garypewitt at centurytel.net (Gary Pewitt)
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:08:14 -0500
Subject: [HBR] Tube history/usage summary?
In-Reply-To: <1b6c3380910281804t2ff639eep2d965ed11c890550@mail.gmail.com>
References: <C70DE7BB.21593%n2apb@verizon.net>	<B136EDE3DF5EC441B6F08E0A7AB8724502C4824734@EX2K7-CMS-1.wmata.local>	<0B897D0B-8BE3-42D2-819A-20B3C5C2611F@earthlink.net>
	<1b6c3380910281804t2ff639eep2d965ed11c890550@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4AEA205E.8090803@centurytel.net>

A very good guide for building (if not designing) radios is Lindsay 
Publication's  " Impoverished Radio Experimenter" a six book set that 
takes you from the simplest sets to building a complete
superhet in which you build most of the parts yourself.   
http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/sub/radio.html
Lots of fun and very educational.  Cheap too. ;-)
73  Gary  N9ZSV





Preston clark wrote:
> i would like  to know if there any books on on building vacuum tube radios
>  for ham radio  from scratch thanks Preston
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Kenneth Lopez <kjlopez at earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>   
>> My suggestions include some of Tim's:
>>
>> The  Radiotron Designers Handbook 4th Edition (Big Red Book) is really
>> the only edition worth considering.  Available used on Amazon from $30
>> and up.  I would consider it a must.  FYI this is the book that Leo
>> Fender used when starting guitar amplifier designs.  Then he tweaked
>> circuits until he found what he envisioned.
>>
>> Late editions of the Radio Engineer's Handbook by Henney
>>
>> Electronic and Radio Engineering by Terman
>>
>> Radio Engineering by Terman
>>
>> 50's & 60's editions of The Radio Handbook by Orr
>>
>> 50's & early 60's editions of ARRL Handbook
>>
>> Multiple editions of the RCA Transmitting Tube manual, and RCA
>> Receiving Tube manuals
>>
>> Radio Physics Course by Ghirardi
>>
>> Radio Transmitters by Gray and Graham
>>
>> Much of the development work pertinent to what you might wish to learn
>> was well documented in the '50s and early '60s.  I probably would
>> stick to those editions of most of the available books.
>>
>> A really good resource, besides Amazon and Antique Electronics Supply,
>> would be a good local or online bookstore that has some specialty in
>> technical books.  There are many dozens of books that were in print in
>> that era, which was the peak of tube research and development.
>> One that I have frequented is Bargain Books in Van Nuys, CA
>> http://www.bargainbooks-online.com/
>>
>>
>> Many good books on tube audio were published including 1st and 2nd
>> editions of The Audio Encyclopedia, and others by Harry Olson, etc.
>>
>> I have been a technical book junkie for many years (OK, perhaps just a
>> book junkie).
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Ken N6TZV
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Shoppa, Tim wrote:
>>
>>     
>>>> So here?s my question ... Is there a recommended book, article
>>>> series, or
>>>> whatever, that might categorize, classify, group or explain tubes and
>>>> characteristic used in different applications?
>>>>         
>>> Good starts for smaller tubes are:
>>>
>>> RCA Receiving Tube Handbook. Different editions span different
>>> years. They include cross-refs by application, selection charts, and
>>> many tube parameters. For HBR era stuff a postwar book with
>>> miniatures is the obvious choice, and reprints of RC-30 (1973) are
>>> readily available from Antique Electronic Supply etc. The later you
>>> go, the more compactrons and TV-type tubes you see, if this is
>>> important to you (depending on your bent it may not be desirable!).
>>> Many example schematics.
>>>
>>> Radiotron Designers Handbook. Not so much a databook but a
>>> encyclopedic book about radio and tube design.
>>>
>>> Ternan's books on Radio Engineering are good too.
>>>
>>> Some university level textbooks common in the 1950's:
>>> Spangenberg, "Vacuum Tubes"
>>> Seely, "Electron Tube Circuits"
>>> Millman & Seely.
>>> Millman and Taubes.
>>>
>>> If you have a good technical library near you, the MIT Radiation Lab
>>> series.
>>>
>>> A lot of figures and tables you find in the 40's-50's-60's-70's ARRL
>>> Handbooks are actually taken from the above books.
>>>
>>> Tim.
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> HBR mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>       
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> HBR mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>     
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>   


From bear57 at telus.net  Fri Oct 30 12:32:09 2009
From: bear57 at telus.net (Lorne Barber)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 09:32:09 -0700
Subject: [HBR] Tube Manual FS or trade
Message-ID: <E3CD132B614E421EB5330857593C2B02@acera2gjrt6tf9>

I have a copy of Electronics Universal Vade Mecum, a Polish publication, 
reputed to be the ultimate in tube data. This book contains way more 
engineering than I require and I would like to put this into the hands of 
someone who is  better able to use it.
This hard cover  book, published second edition 1994, has 440 pages of tube 
curves and characteristics for virtually every receiving tube manufactured, 
including US, Russian, British, German and others.
This is in "like new" condition, no loose bindings, marked or soiled pages.
I dabble in HBR radio and other tube projects as well as "sand state" 
receivers/transmitters.
I would be interested in swapping for HBR components, incomplete projects or 
heaven forbid "cash". I am unable to find a pricing for this book so if 
anyone has information in that regard I would be pleased to hear from you.
Pictures available to interested parties.
7 3
Lorne
ve7box



From whopkin4 at zimbra.naz.edu  Fri Oct 30 17:02:13 2009
From: whopkin4 at zimbra.naz.edu (William Hopkins)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 17:02:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HBR] Tube Manual FS or trade
In-Reply-To: <E3CD132B614E421EB5330857593C2B02@acera2gjrt6tf9>
Message-ID: <1653221131.16764921256936533399.JavaMail.root@nazoli1.optimizedlearn.com>

Lorne, 

Why don't you see if the Antique Wireless Association has the book? We have an excellent library, and much of the stuff is very rare. We even have publications in other languages. 

The AWA research library is open to anyone interested in wireless, and copies of things can be made for researchers. 

ciao 
Bill Hopkins AA2YV 
AWA Museum Secretary 
and future HBR13C builder (am still looking for my 2nd Miller 1800 KC IF can) 



Dr. William Hopkins, Prof. of German 
Coord., Berlin Residential Program 
Foreign Languages & Literatures Dept. 
Nazareth College 
4245 East Avenue 
Rochester NY 14618 
Off: 585-389-2359 
Fax: 585-586-2452 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lorne Barber" <bear57 at telus.net> 
To: "HBR Receiver List" <hbr at mailman.qth.net> 
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:32:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: [HBR] Tube Manual FS or trade 

I have a copy of Electronics Universal Vade Mecum, a Polish publication, 
reputed to be the ultimate in tube data. This book contains way more 
engineering than I require and I would like to put this into the hands of 
someone who is better able to use it. 
This hard cover book, published second edition 1994, has 440 pages of tube 
curves and characteristics for virtually every receiving tube manufactured, 
including US, Russian, British, German and others. 
This is in "like new" condition, no loose bindings, marked or soiled pages. 
I dabble in HBR radio and other tube projects as well as "sand state" 
receivers/transmitters. 
I would be interested in swapping for HBR components, incomplete projects or 
heaven forbid "cash". I am unable to find a pricing for this book so if 
anyone has information in that regard I would be pleased to hear from you. 
Pictures available to interested parties. 
7 3 
Lorne 
ve7box 


______________________________________________________________ 
HBR mailing list 
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr 
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm 
Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net 

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net 
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 


From texaspatriot67 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 30 23:54:05 2009
From: texaspatriot67 at gmail.com (Preston clark)
Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 22:54:05 -0500
Subject: [HBR] Tube Manual FS or trade
In-Reply-To: <1653221131.16764921256936533399.JavaMail.root@nazoli1.optimizedlearn.com>
References: <E3CD132B614E421EB5330857593C2B02@acera2gjrt6tf9>
	<1653221131.16764921256936533399.JavaMail.root@nazoli1.optimizedlearn.com>
Message-ID: <1b6c3380910302054t69c9c167j44ebd37f3e637aac@mail.gmail.com>

i might be interested if you can find some pricing info on it

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:02 PM, William Hopkins <whopkin4 at zimbra.naz.edu>wrote:

> Lorne,
>
> Why don't you see if the Antique Wireless Association has the book? We have
> an excellent library, and much of the stuff is very rare. We even have
> publications in other languages.
>
> The AWA research library is open to anyone interested in wireless, and
> copies of things can be made for researchers.
>
> ciao
> Bill Hopkins AA2YV
> AWA Museum Secretary
> and future HBR13C builder (am still looking for my 2nd Miller 1800 KC IF
> can)
>
>
>
> Dr. William Hopkins, Prof. of German
> Coord., Berlin Residential Program
> Foreign Languages & Literatures Dept.
> Nazareth College
> 4245 East Avenue
> Rochester NY 14618
> Off: 585-389-2359
> Fax: 585-586-2452
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lorne Barber" <bear57 at telus.net>
> To: "HBR Receiver List" <hbr at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 12:32:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: [HBR] Tube Manual FS or trade
>
> I have a copy of Electronics Universal Vade Mecum, a Polish publication,
> reputed to be the ultimate in tube data. This book contains way more
> engineering than I require and I would like to put this into the hands of
> someone who is better able to use it.
> This hard cover book, published second edition 1994, has 440 pages of tube
> curves and characteristics for virtually every receiving tube manufactured,
> including US, Russian, British, German and others.
> This is in "like new" condition, no loose bindings, marked or soiled pages.
> I dabble in HBR radio and other tube projects as well as "sand state"
> receivers/transmitters.
> I would be interested in swapping for HBR components, incomplete projects
> or
> heaven forbid "cash". I am unable to find a pricing for this book so if
> anyone has information in that regard I would be pleased to hear from you.
> Pictures available to interested parties.
> 7 3
> Lorne
> ve7box
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HBR mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hbr
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HBR at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

