Oh, gosh.  That schematic reminds me of the good old days at AT&T.  I used to have mild arguments with drafting as to how a schematic should be shown on paper.  Their approach was often that the schematic was just a graphical netlist and the goal was to use as few pages as possible.  My position was that a schematic told a story, in graphic form, a story about how a circuit worked, so that the reader could easily understand its operation.  

Anyway, here's a redrawn version of the schematic with some commentary below that.  Please let me know if you spot any transcription bugs in the schematic.

image.png


A couple of things to note here.  First, I don't see any reference to earth ground in the original schematic.  To me, that means that this circuit "floats" with respect to earth ground, and the relationship with ground is determined by the applied 20mA (or 60mA) current loop (one side of which is likely grounded directly or through some finite resistance).  When I call out a voltage on the schematic or text, that voltage is with respect to the Zero volt bus.

Second, the selector current is BIG, about 0.5 A.  And when Q2 is conducting,  Q2 is operating in its linear range, so it will get HOT.

Let's look at what happens in the MARKing condition.  In the marking condition the 20 mA (or 60 mA) of positive current is shoved toward the base of Q1.  In this condition the loop current flows through CR5 and the R3 (0.8 ohms) as well as through R1 into the diode network.   Also in this condition the voltage at the base of Q1 is clamped to about +1.1V, and the BE junction of Q1 is cut off, so Q1 is out of the picture in the MARKing state.  The base of Q2 is held at -5.4 volts by the diode network and the voltage the the emitter of Q2 is held at 4.7 volts (due the diode voltage at the base, less the diode drop across the Q2 BE junction).  So with a constant voltage at the emitter of Q2, and a constant resistance between the emitter and the 0V bus, Q2 forms a constant current driver.  If Q2 has a decent gain value, then Ic = Ie = 4.7V / (0.8 +1.5 + 8) = 456 mA.  So that's the marking condition.

In the case of the spacing condition, the 20 mA loop current is disabled and Q1 is biased on via R1 and the diode network.  This causes Q1 to turn on and current is sent from the collector of Q1 toward R8, which tends to rob current from the diode network, sending the voltage at the base of Q2  toward zero volts.  It won't get to zero but it will be close (maybe -1 volts).  With lower voltage at the base of Q2 (and 0.7 to 0.5V less than at Q2 emitter), that will reduce the selector magnet current significantly (but I don't think it will go to zero).  In a working circuit the actual MARKing and SPACEing selector current can be determined by measuring the voltage across R7 and dividing by 14.

Paul, ad7i



On Mon, Jul 21, 2025 at 5:04 PM RODNEY HOGG <radio_man@wbsnet.org> wrote:
Paul,
Do you have a type number or p/n for the transistor.  I have 1000s of transistors, civilian and military types, be glad to help you out.
Rod
K0EQH


From: "Erik Bruchez" <erik@bruchez.org>
To: "Paul Newland, ad7i" <ad7i@ad7i.net>
Cc: "Greenkeys" <greenkeys@mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2025 1:58:36 PM
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Model 33 Q1 transistor replacement

Paul,
It's probably not all that difficult to find a working replacement, but in a different form factor.   Can you show a larger portion of the schematic?  I'd like to see if this transistor is operating as an on/off switch, or if it's trying to work some magic to regulate the voltage on the magnet for fast pull in and then low current idle.

I attach the whole thing. There are explanations in the schematics.

I measure about 0 V on the base of Q1, but also about 0 V on the base of Q2. My understanding (which could be wrong) is that when one is on, the other one should be off, and vice versa, which means that 0 V on Q1 should lead to about 4.7 V on the base of Q2. In any case, I am not getting any voltage to the selector magnet through Q2 (the large transistor on the heat sink, separate from the board), which is the original problem I am having.
 
Some basic DC measurements might give you some insight into the health of the transistor without removing it from the circuit board.

This is what is leading me to Q1: it seems that there is continuity between emitter and collector, which I don't think there should be! I have another instance of the board where this is not the case. (However, that second board also doesn't seem to work, but there might be something else wrong with it.) I could desolder the transistor on that one and transplant it to see if that gets my first board working, but I was trying to avoid doing that immediately.
 
I'd be curious to know the voltage from base to emitter when the transistor is "ON" (or supposed to be on).   Also (can't see that part of the schematic) but if there's a resistor in series with the base I'd be curious to know the voltage across the resistor (and the resistance of the resistor), and then use ohms law to determine the base current.  Same thing for the selector magnet current, if that's possible.

-Erik 

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