[GreenKeys] M28 ASR loop wiring

Mon Mar 11 09:01:29 EDT 2024

Paul,

if you are wiring a M28's selector magnets directly into your external 
loop, then you just wire the SMs in series for 20ma and parallel for 60ma.

But most M28 printers are set up with a "Line Relay" in the LESU to 
isolate the SMs from the outside world (external loop).  The Line Relay 
in the LESU is a "polar" relay with a bias winding to make the M/S 
transition quicker/cleaner. The current in the Line relay bias winding 
works against the line current.  If you change the line current, you 
have to change the bias current to keep them balanced.

Nick just pointed me to this document, 3294 WD at 
https://www.navy-radio.com/manuals/tty/wd/pc/3294wd-iss24-6408.pdf It 
has a good, _clear_, schematic of the M28 ASR.  Note 6 tells how to 
change jumpers to add 8K ohm into the Line Relay bias circuit when 
changing Line currents.

I also read somewhere about adjusting the SM armature spring bias. But I 
don't remember now if that was for speed change or line current change 
change (or both).

Have fun,

Duncan
K2OEQ

On 11-Mar-24 03:37, Paul Heller wrote:
> I’m following closely. I was told the only thing that needed to change 
> was to wire the selector magnets in parallel or serial. I’ve never 
> looked into it further.
>
>
> Paul
>
>> On Mar 10, 2024, at 10:05 PM, Duncan Brown <duncanancy at earthlink.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> I've been doing more digging in M28 schematics & WD's and have 
>> answered some of my questions.
>>
>> 1. Due to blurry images, I was mistaken about the internal loop 
>> current. There is resistance of about 4.0K with 120VDC which gives an 
>> internal loop current of 30ma through the series-connected selector 
>> magnets. (That's closer to 20ma we normally think of with series 
>> connection. )
>>
>> 2. I get the impression that M28s were normally set up for 60 ma 
>> external loop.  If you want to change to 20 ma, there are changes in 
>> the LESU that must be made to decrease the bias current of the Line 
>> Relay.
>>
>> When I get back to the Museum on Tuesday, there are a couple more 
>> strange connections I need to check out, but I think now that it 
>> should be relatively easy to get this unit back to normal.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Duncan
>> K2OEQ
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10-Mar-24 13:35, Duncan Brown wrote:
>>> My background/experience has mainly been with Kleinschmidt units 
>>> where the external loop connects directly to the selector magnets, 
>>> with a switch or plug selection to choose between 20 & 60 ma. loop.  
>>> (no "Line Relay")
>>> Up to now, all M28s I've worked with just ran when they were plugged in.
>>>
>>>
>>> I am trying to correct the wiring of a M28 ASR that was rewired by 
>>> "some ham", but I am getting confused by all the "flexibility" in 
>>> the ASR design.
>>>
>>> Presently, the unit is operational in both 'Line' & 'Test' modes, 
>>> but when I plugged it into a 60 ma loop, I could only get a maximum 
>>> of about 50ma from the TU. Measuring the M28's Signal cable 
>>> (connected to the ASR's terminals 5 & 15), I found that there was an 
>>> internal 1K of resistance. Also, the Line Shunt relay was not 
>>> shorting the line with the power off.  This was when I started to 
>>> think that there had been some mods made to the wiring.
>>>
>>> Upon further investigation, I have found that the external loop 
>>> cable is connected _directly_ to the Selector Magnets (in series) 
>>> through internal resistors of 400 + 600 ohms and the Auxiliary 
>>> Reperf, bypassing the Line Shunt Relay and the polar Line relay.
>>>
>>> In looking at the ASR's schematic (M28ASR W/LESU13), it looks like 
>>> the Selector Magnets are normally wired in series with 3.55K, 
>>> through the Line Relay contacts. This would give an Internal Loop 
>>> current through the SMs of about 40 ma.
>>>  1.  Is this correct, that the internal loop runs at 40ma and that 
>>> is optimum for two SMs in series?
>>>
>>>  2.  Is there any change/adjustment needed to the LESU for the 
>>> external loop running 20 or 60 ma?  The external loop seems to run 
>>> right through the line winding of the Line Relay. Can the Line relay 
>>> take any input current? With in what range?  Or is there a change to 
>>> the Line Relay bias current needed between 20 & 60 ma?
>>>
>>> I could run this unit at 20-40 ma, but would rather get it restored 
>>> to normal wiring (I haven had a chance to ring out all the changes yet).
>>>
>>> Is there a good description somewhere of the options & changes 
>>> needed for different loop currents of the M28?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Duncan
>>> K2OEQ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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