[GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem

Sat Mar 19 12:00:27 EDT 2022

Paul,

ANYTIME I post to greenkeys with this email joeduszynski1 at gmail.com. It
bounces back with a message similar to theses.
After a few hours and sometimes a whole day it will get posted. I watch
Autostart and the forum archive for it to show up which it eventually does.

If i post it with my work account it will show up instantly.

It is NOW 11:59am EDT I will post a similar email whit the other in a
moment and you can see the difference in the forum archive.

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net> wrote:

> When you guys say it “bounced”, what do you mean?
>
> A few years ago there was a big discussion here and the conclusion was
> that Gmail was filtering out the received message because it was the same
> as the sent message. The return incoming message was filtered out by gmail,
> but not the outgoing message. It only happened with list type servers like
> greenkeys.
>
> It’s mad because you don’t really know if it actually went out (it always
> did). Our conclusion then was that you just had to have faith.
>
> Paul
> W2TTY
>
> ITTY: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY
> <HTTP://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY>
> ITTY 100:  HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100
> AUTOSTART: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART
> <HTTP://internet-tty.net:8030/AUTOSTART>
> EUROPE: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE
> <HTTP://internet-tty.net:8040/EUROPE>
>
> On Mar 19, 2022, at 4:08 PM, Joe Duszyński <joeduszynski1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
> I would add Tom's problem and my problem both probably occur because of
> gmail.
> When I send to the list from my work email joeyd at northwest-denture.com
> it always directly posts never a problem BUT when I send from my Gmail it
> bounces 100%(pct) of the time.  This is evidenced by my two posts from the
> work account and then the post from the gmail showing up at different times
> the work email was instant the gmail posted whenever whatever intervention
> took place. I do not prefer to use my work email for Greenkeys but it let
> me know that the issue was not the content but more likely that it didn't
> like something about the email account.
>
>
> Here is the kicker to all this. Google's mail runs my work email.
>
> I originally thought it was the foreign characters in my last name the N
> with a ' that triggers it as I do not have that in my work email,my last
> name is hard enough to spell without the complication of Polish letters LOL.
>
> But with Tom having a similar issue as myself it looks more like it is
> just the greenkeys list not liking GMAIL in general.
>
> JD
> Sent from my GMAIL.
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 11:29 PM gil baudot.net <gil at baudot.net> wrote:
>
>> Well, there is no "spam" analysis and action taken by the mailman system
>> used by the greenkeys list.
>>
>> There are indeed greenkeys "bounces" (much to the chagrin of some folks
>> who seem to get bounced more than others) that suspend your account after a
>> certain amount of delivery rejections, or something.  I have little control
>> over the automated bounce system, but I do manually re-activate an account
>> when someone lets me know a user is on hold.  Here is an excerpt from the
>> system:
>>
>> "
>> These policies control the automatic bounce processing system in Mailman.
>> Here's an overview of how it works.
>>
>> When a bounce is received, Mailman tries to extract two pieces of
>> information from the message: the address of the member the message was
>> intended for, and the severity of the problem causing the bounce. The
>> severity can be either *hard* or *soft* meaning either a fatal error
>> occurred, or a transient error occurred. When in doubt, a hard severity is
>> used.
>>
>> If no member address can be extracted from the bounce, then the bounce is
>> usually discarded. Otherwise, each member is assigned a *bounce score* and
>> every time we encounter a bounce from this member we increment the score.
>> Hard bounces increment by 1 while soft bounces increment by 0.5. We only
>> increment the bounce score once per day, so even if we receive ten hard
>> bounces from a member per day, their score will increase by only 1 for that
>> day.
>>
>> When a member's bounce score is greater than the bounce score threshold
>> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_score_threshold>,
>> the subscription is disabled. Once disabled, the member will not receive
>> any postings from the list until their membership is explicitly re-enabled
>> (either by the list administrator or the user). However, they will receive
>> occasional reminders that their membership has been disabled, and these
>> reminders will include information about how to re-enable their membership.
>>
>> You can control both the number of reminders
>> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings>
>>  the member will receive and the frequency
>> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval>
>>  with which these reminders are sent.
>>
>> There is one other important configuration variable; after a certain
>> period of time -- during which no bounces from the member are received --
>> the bounce information is considered stale
>> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_info_stale_after>
>>  and discarded. Thus by adjusting this value, and the score threshold,
>> you can control how quickly bouncing members are disabled. You should tune
>> both of these to the frequency and traffic volume of your list."
>>
>>
>> Sometime it seems like the mailman system used by greenkeys is as old as
>> some of our machines, though less well-behaved.
>>
>>
>> fyi, gil
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <
>> greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of John, W9DDD <
>> w9ddd at tapr.org>
>> *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2022 7:43 PM
>> *To:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem
>>
>>
>> Checking the greenkeys archive
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>>
>> can tell you if the problem is going into the reflector or coming out.
>> Postings seem to show up in the archive fairly soon after being sent to the
>> list.
>>
>> ---
>> ----
>> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
>> John, W9DDD
>>
>> On 3/18/2022 9:18 PM, Doug Jackson wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tom.
>>
>> Spam bounce messages are literally 100% automatic and not created by a
>> person.
>>
>> You should never work on the basis that  a human being has taken
>> offence.  They are literally machine generated based on an algorithm that
>> looks at content coupled with source network and many many other factors.
>>
>> Spam detection isn't moderation.  It's simply a seriously inexact artwork
>> implemented in dumb logic.
>>
>> Doug   VK1ZDJ
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope tgat helps.
>>
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022, 12:51 pm Matthew Wagner, <mattwagner92597 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Tom,
>>
>> I received your message, so it did happen to get through to me. I
>> appreciate it and will definitely take a look. Not sure about the spam
>> filtering but I did get your message.
>>
>> Much appreciated,
>> M. Wagner
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 21:46 joe duszynski <joeyd at northwest-denture.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> If this doesn't  bounce its the algorithm.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:34 PM Tom Hunter <tomhenryhunter at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  I tired to help put Mathew Wagner, Greenkeys bounced it  back as spam.
>>
>> This is not the first time this has happened.
>>
>> Does anyone else feel any of my messages are out of line?
>> If so, I will just read the mail, mind my own business and
>> quit trying to help others.
>>
>>
>> Tom   N3CRK
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to joeyd at northwest-denture.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to mattwagner92597 at gmail.com
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to doug at doughq.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net <GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
>>
>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool: http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
>> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
>> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to joeduszynski1 at gmail.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> GreenKeys mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to paul0926 at comcast.ne
>
>
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