[GreenKeys] 33 Troubleshooting

Thu Aug 1 22:09:48 EDT 2019

Thanks Wayne. Quick general question regarding this scenario.

I also turned the punch on since writing the below email. If I turn the motor by hand I get consistently good punches. When I turn the motor on, I never come close to the correct bit pattern. It isn't totally random but it's way off (lots of holes/ones). So kind of like the printer.

So to sum up the scenario and ask the question - the scenario is that there is a vast difference in operation with motor on vs. motor off. Could this still be explained by sticking part, congealed grease, etc.?

Thanks,

Ken

On Thu, Aug 1, 2019, at 16:33, WAYNE wrote:
> Ken,

> 

> Random errors are usually in the printer, but not always. Sticking part, congealed grease, etc. 

> 

> Wayne

>> On August 1, 2019 at 5:59 PM Ken Wiebe <me at networkguy.com> wrote: 
>> 
>> Hi, 
>> 
>> I have new info after employing a combination of the tips provided. 
>> 
>> PART A 
>> 
>> With the 33 plugged in but switched off, I checked code bar movement for each character by turning the motor by hand. Noted: Code bar movement appears correct for unshifted characters. Incorrect for shifted (and CTRL). 
>> 
>> Shifted characters specifying position 5 as marking had position 5 spacing in practice, and vice-versa. And CTRL is supposed to make position 7 spacing, but it did not in practice. 
>> 
>> I went to the keyboard manual and read about the T-levers for SHIFT and CTRL. Near as I can tell, mechanically the switch contacts are behaving as described for shifted and CTRL. The two-headed SHIFT T-lever opens and closes contact a. and b. as expected. Also the CTRL contact opens when that key is pressed. 
>> 
>> PART B 
>> 
>> Next I switched on the motor. My expectation given the code bar check above in Part A was that unshifted characters would print correctly. However, that was not the case. Wrong characters printed, and the wrong characters were not consistently the same wrong characters. 
>> 
>> Not sure what this all means. 
>> 
>> Help for what to do next appreciated! 
>> 
>> Thanks, 
>> 
>> Ken 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019, at 08:44, Ken Wiebe wrote: 
>>> Thanks Jim, Mike, and Wayne for the tips. This gives me a lot to work with so I appreciate it. 
>>> 
>>> I haven't actually hooked the 33 to a computer yet but I could do that easily. 
>>> 
>>> I think I have several avenues I can go down now so I'll let you know what I find out. 
>>> 
>>> Ken 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jul 31, 2019, at 08:36, WAYNE wrote: 
>>>> Ken and Mike,

>>>> 

>>>> I forgot an important question. Is the 33 hooked to a computer and does it print correctly from the computer? This would tell you if the trouble was in the printer or the sending devices attached to the distributor. 

>>>> 

>>>> Wayne

>>>>> On July 31, 2019 at 12:55 AM Mike Arrington <bn.mikea at gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll give it a try. Remember, this is my experience with a single Model 33. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> When the 33 is plugged in, the selector magnet electronics are active. When the 33 is unplugged and "off" and you plug it in, you'll hear a click from the selector magnet. BTW, you should probably unplug it when not in use. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the left side (with the keyboard being the front), there are 8 code bars sticking out. If you have a punch, the punch will be connected to these, but on the left side of the punch, its own "code bars" will also stick out. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> When the code bars are in a marking position, they will be shifted to the left and up. The code bars, from the back to the front are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 6, 8. Note that 7 and 6 are exchanged. When the printer is idle, the code bars will be in the right and down position or spacing (0) position. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> While the 33 is "off", with the selector magnet energized, the distributor is also active. If you press a key, you should hear a click and see the H-plate shift. You can then rotate the motor by turning the fan on the top towards the front. The correct direction is also marked on the motor. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> You'll see the distributor rotate. When the distributor stops, the code bars should be setup. Sometimes when running at this slow of a speed, the code bars don't always work perfectly. In that case, you can manually set them by poking a probe to get them to pop out or you can push them back in to get the code you want. Continue rotating the motor to let the printer process the function or print a character. At the end of the cycle, all the code bars will be set to spacing. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Handy keys for testing are ctrl-shift-P (@) to select no code bars and RUB OUT to set all of the code bars. See an ASCII code chart for other values. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you have a even parity keyboard, it will set the 8th code bar to maintain an even count of 1's. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> These directions let you test the path from the keyboard to the code bars. If you are getting incorrect results, the problem could be anywhere in the keyboard, distributor, selector mechanism, or code bars themselves. To determine if the problem is in the keyboard, you may need to select a key on the keyboard and check to see if that is correctly set in the distributor. I haven't had to do that so I can't speak to that at this time. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> CAUTION: When the 33 is plugged in, there are high voltages present at various points. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good luck and I hope this may be helpful. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --Mike A 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2019 at 2:28 PM Ken Wiebe < me at networkguy.com> wrote: 
>>>>>> __
>>>>>> Looking for a high-level strategy to isolate cause of problem: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In local mode, I don't get the right characters to print when I type. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I understand the principles of operation. The keyboard contacts are connected to the distributor which generates a series of pulses representing the key pressed. Got it. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Then the selector mechanism senses the pulses and sets up the code bars accordingly. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One thing I'd like to do is turn the motor over by hand and confirm or deny the code bar positioning given a known pulse pattern. I think I have to manipulate the selector mechanism in some way but I'm not sure how. A video was posted a while back which included someone doing this, but I couldn't quite get it from the camera angle/description. I thought maybe someone here could describe it better. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I also had the thought of connecting to the signal line to ensure the distributor was sending the right pulses. But that would probably come after checking the code bar positioning (?) Wondered what the group thought. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Any other ideas to isolate quickly? Am I on the right track? 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks everyone! 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Ken 
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